315 réponses à ce sujet

[Razh2211]

Right now, I'm playing BG with the intention to play trough the entire saga. I installed EasyTutu to allow some options from BG2 which makes it easier to play.

The only thing I'm missing so far is warrior skills, because I got used to slashing multiple enemies at once.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

With regards people talking about the difficulty of the fights, is it not fair to say that due to experience of fighting such opponents makes it easier to fight in newer games?

Dragons for example, most of us RPGers have killed hundreds of them in our time correct? Which considering the slightly limited variances you could give one, other than having it properly flying around and ducking and diving from a variety of places; makes it all the more easier for people whom have faced them before.

So I don't think we can truly compare them 'gameplay' wise, because if it is 'the next of its kind' it is going to keep some of the familiarities of its predecessors and thus will actually be easier for people whom played them.

Storywise, I enjoyed both, I'll agree that I think BG2s sidequests had more 'story' to them than most of the sidequests of DAO, but I think that the main story was more open for such sidequests to be done in comparison to those that we have seen (so far) in DAO. There is one sidequest later on in DAO which I think when I first started going through it had the potential to be fairly good but the ending of it was a bit flat in comparison to another similar one which had a decent ending.

I am looking forward to any sequels that DA gets as I think considering what they had to do for this game, it was a good starter, so main course... yes please

[Badger8126]

I'll humor the people in this thread and I'll go play BG2 and see if it's as good as DA without the blinding effects of nostalgia...

[Narelda]

BG II had the benefit of a six member party , and overall it had more party members to choose from. Also I liked the character interactions, even though BG is way less technically sophisticated than DA:O. I guess DA:O just has to compromise on the amount of content in favor of more engrossing & visual experience.

Story-wise BG II wins by large marging, mostly due to epicness of the main villain, Irenicus and also his sidekick vampire sister Bodhi. The other villains, Sarevok from BG I and Melissan from ToB were not as good. The good thing about ToB really was the epicness of the story itself.

DA:O on the other hand really lacked a good final boss and villain. Loghain and Howe were never really interesting as characters, and the Blight Dragon was really impersonal, just another dragon to be killed of.

What DA:O does better besides the obvious graphical improvements is the relative smoothness of game play. I could also say some of the individual quests were really good, although I could say the same about some of BG quests.

[Dieover]

Didn't play BG2 yet but I'm only eye candy for good graphic and BG2 doesn't interest me a bit when it come to graphic.



DA on the other hand is short and sweet. The instruction are clear beside finding X NPC at Denmdum

[Bodiak]

I have played kotor 1+2, PS:T (halfway through) and BG1 right before DAO and I have to say I'm a bit frustrated about the depth of DAO-Sidequests. Don't get me wrong: DAO is a great game and I love it, but content-wise it just isn't on par with the BG-Series.

I also thought Denerim was way too small/short! In comparism with Baldurs Gate city in BG1 Denerim still pales. Yes, the Ferelden Campaign is more clustered, but still, a main capital should simply feel like a big city and not just market district+X

[MerinTB]

Personally, I'll take smaller areas over the tedium I often felt playing BG1. Absolute tedium. One reason I didn't try and replay that one as many times as NWN is because the starting area (was it Candlekeep) is so dreadfully dull.

Graphics aren't a big thing to me (I still play Wizard's Crown!) but fun is. BG1 is slow and monotonous play IMO.



BG2 - is also a bit slow, though better than BG1 by a mile and a half. The story of BG2 was epic, and I love 6 member parties (though, again, I prefer making my entire party - why replaying IWD happened more often : an aside, the best compromise for this is in a game like Freedom Force where you can use the characters created for the main story (sometimes forced to use certain characters for story points, sure) and you can use your own characters, a mix as however you want it (1 of yours and 3 of the game's pre-created, all pre-created, all your own, etc.))



BG2 is just long and slow for me now - I have been spoiled by later games, it is true. I did just install it on my laptop that uses my big screen monitor in our rec room and installed a bunch of the mods with the intention of going through it again in the near future, though. Maybe playing it again after playing DAO I can make a better comparison than going off of my last playthrough (close to 3 years ago now.)

[Silvaeris Elvandar]

The main reason I would put BG 2 higher in the rankings than DA:O is the simple fact that BG 2's plot did not revolve around an good vs. evil battle in which you, as the main character, take place and are forced to choose your modus operandi and your side. In BG2, you were the main plot - it was your story, it was interesting, it was epic, it was not so much a cliche in which it seems Bioware games revel in.

[Calara]

I enjoyed DA:O a lot, and it stands as one of the best modern rpgs. However saying that, there is just so much more depth to the Baldurs gate series.



In the Bg series, the game world is fleshed out more and the interesting and involved side quests actually made you feel like you were a part of a larger world. I think nothing epitomises this differences more than the chanters quest board of kill x tasks in DA.



I also thought the game mechanics of BG were much better thought out, although obviously they had the advantage of using well established D&D rules. Many aspects of DA combat feels unbalanced, with some talents being utterly worthless and some being insanely powerful.



Due to the limitations of the 4 player party, and the pc version being hamstrung by DA being a cross-platform console game, sadly the fights in DA are extremely lacking compared to the complexity and challenge of some of the battles in BG2. The stamina system for melee doesnt really work very well, especially in long battles.



The more linear nature of BG1+2 also meant that there was a clear sense of item progression. As a result, you found dozens of interesting and unique pieces of magical equipment, all with their own little background history. I loved that in the final BG2 expansion (the throne of bhaal) you were able to upgrade some of the best earlier weapons into some truly awesome equipment. By contrast, there are only a handful of interesting weapons or suits of armour in DA, half of which you either buy from a shop or are simply given practically at the start of the game in the DLC. The multi-path nature of DA (which is kind of pointless as you have to do it all anyway) means they had to use monster scaling, and sadly this wrecked any sense of item progression.



From the above it sounds like I hated DA, but I didnt, it was fun. The main thing for me about playing a rpg is the story and immersiveness of the gameworld, and althought DA looks very nice, it just doesnt have the kind of depth that allows it to come close to besting BG in the "best crpg of all time" stakes. In actual fact I give that title to Planescape:Torment, which is just legendary.

[Bodiak]

MerinTB wrote...

BG2 is just long and slow for me now - I have been spoiled by later games, it is true. I did just install it on my laptop that uses my big screen monitor in our rec room and installed a bunch of the mods with the intention of going through it again in the near future, though. Maybe playing it again after playing DAO I can make a better comparison than going off of my last playthrough (close to 3 years ago now.)

I have to admit: The BG series was very slow paced in comparism to DAO. This year I played PS:T for the first time and coming from games like kotor it felt awful at first. But for me it's like a good book: once you got into it it simply grabs me!
Then again if you compare BG game speed to even older (round based) RPGs....

This oldschool gameplay + the very outdated graphics make it very hard to get into it. There are also some design flaws (think of this crappy backpack group management!) that add to the turn offs.
Still the sheer amount of good quality content is unreached IMHO.

+ Baldurs Gate now loads much faster than Dragon Age! Actually the loading times were one of the first things that reminded me of old BG times (the spiritual successor )
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Modifié par Bodiak, 21 décembre 2009 - 09:39 .

[Malhavoc Adhamar]

DA:O is good but alas doesn't beat the BG series Sure DA:O has the graphics but it doesn't have the depth of storyline or side plots that the BG series had.



In BG1 you started of as a complete nubcake and more to the point the world treated you like it. By the end of it you were barely getting a taste of who and what you were and BG2, while lacking in the number of explorables and felt more directed than BG1, only helped to expand on your background until the you're given the choice at the end of ToB.



DA:O however lacks that character development that BG1&2 had. By the time you're starting (past the starting story) you're already apart of an elite group, about to save the world. Even afterwards you're led gentlely by the hand rather than thrown out into the wildeness with nothing more than what you could get your grubby mitts on.



Just a shame that you won't get games with BG1&2's depth these days since to do so, with todays graphics, would just take too long to do (think about if every area in BG1 & 2 were re-created in DA:O and how long it would take to do it)

[blazin130791]

i still play bg2 even now.

[BennyHartless]

As far as having to play a game for half an hour to know if I like it or not, that's preposterous. I shouldn't have to play for a certain period to like it. Stabbing yourself in the eye with a sharp stick my be great an hour into it, but I'll never find out.

[FlintlockJazz]

You know, I've really got a Baldur's Gate urge coming on...

[Bartyr]

johngaltjr wrote...

The big thing that made BG2 better for me was atmosphere. Who can forget the feeling of freedom when you first stepped onto Waukeen's Promenade? Athkatla was amazing, Denerium is Trademeet in comparison. DAO is pretty good, but it really fails at capturing any type of city feel. The areas feel much more contrived in DAO. Look at Lothering for example, how ridiculous are the Chanter's board quests?

I loved that part when you enter the promenade, my first playthough way back then I felt so overwhelmed in there after accepting so many quests I had to shut off the game.

To me BG2 wins because of how big the game is. With so many quests it took me years to discover all so many playing the game so many times. It has a great story and atmosphere. I also liked some the music a little bit more than dragon age(superior theme at the menu screen however).

That being said, BG2 is a slow game with a dull combat system in todays standards. Its very boring walking around in BG2 so I usually cheat to get haste boots for the whole party. The combat is also faaaar better in DA, especially the magic.

Defintely like the direction DA is going, if it does continue on(99% sure about this). If it can pull off the jump BG did to BG2 then I could die happy!

[Calara]

BennyHartless wrote...

As far as having to play a game for half an hour to know if I like it or not, that's preposterous. I shouldn't have to play for a certain period to like it. Stabbing yourself in the eye with a sharp stick my be great an hour into it, but I'll never find out.

The avernum games have extremely primitive graphics in comparison to even BG2, but I enjoyed them because they had an interesting story. When you learn to get past the older graphics you might be able to enjoy some of the best crpgs ever made: BG1+2, Torment, IWD, Fallout 1 + 2 and an old time classic - Ultima VII.

[Razh2211]

BennyHartless wrote...
As far as having to play a game for half an hour to know if I like it or not, that's preposterous. I shouldn't have to play for a certain period to like it. Stabbing yourself in the eye with a sharp stick my be great an hour into it, but I'll never find out.

That's a shallow thing to say. Not wanting to offend, but you can't expect to really get into the game after a half an hour. Not this kind of a game.
You can't even exit the first dungeon in BG2 in half an hour. And the dungeon itself is very interesting, has a lot of different locations and you start the game as an experinced adventurer with a lot of skills. Then you get out of the dungeon and the game actually begins.

I guess one of the main reasons I like BG2 more then I like DAO is that BG2 felt like an adventure and DAO felt like a military campaign. I can't even number how many times I wished I could just send that grey warden crap to hell and go to Orlais or something. The game makes you do something that you don't even want to do. Why can't I kill Duncan and run away?
It's like that saying I picked up in an awesome movie:"When life gives you lemons... just say - **** the lemons, and bail."

Modifié par Razh2211, 21 décembre 2009 - 10:39 .

[Khumak]

DAO definitely has potential. The graphics and sound are better in DAO and the NPC banter is comparable. DAO also definitely gets the overall nod in voice acting.



BGII combat system is vastly superior. BGII has the superior villain. I'm sorry but Irenicus is the man... BGII also has more of an "epic" feel to it.



In DAO's defense on the combat mechanics front, they didn't have the decades of fine tuning behind the AD&D rules that BGII had. Ironically, DAO is also better balanced. You see some complaints about mages being overpowered in DAO but they were truely gods in BGII unless you used a mod like IA that severely gimped magic.



On the flip side, we're comparing a brand new game to one that's over a decade old and many people (myself included) still say BGII is the best CRPG ever made. If someone were to remake BGII using the DAO engine and the BGII combat rules I'd have to hook myself up to an IV because I'd never leave my room.

[Elvhen Veluthil]

Baldur's Gate 1 is the greatest adventure ever. You were out of Candlekeep without a clue of what was happening or where to go. The world was there for you to explore. A 10/10 definitely.



BG2 was great too, Irenicus is one of the most interesting villains ever. Many quests, hundred of hours of addictive gameplay. Great game, a bit restricted to the areas you could visit, 9/10.



DAO is unfortunate to have to compete the above games, even Bioware dropped quickly the spiritual successor thing. I give the game 7/10 in general, but in relation to BG it can go much lower.

[alexandros777]

Don't get me wrong, BG2 was a masterpiece in terms of story and immensity.



But there are lots of little things that irk me now that games have moved on. Sure cities are smaller, but I just can't play isometric anymore. The old BG UI was kinda horrid as well.



Dragon Age, with it's graphics and its manageable UI appeals to me a bit more. Though the game lacks the whole "OMG SAGA" of BG with its side quests and zones.



Now if only we could consolidate the two.

[BennyHartless]

I think I found the root of my whole issue talking to a friend about this thread today. He said, "yeah like some people like that chronotrigger crap.". I immediatly jumped to the defense. Why? Because I played and loved that game when it was the Shizuoka. I can't relate to bg because I have no fond childhood memories of it. Make sense?

[OneBadAssMother]

Child of Bhaal > Grey Warden in my opinion



But maybe that's because I grew up with BG

[Elvhen Veluthil]

BennyHartless wrote...

I think I found the root of my whole issue talking to a friend about this thread today. He said, "yeah like some people like that chronotrigger crap.". I immediatly jumped to the defense. Why? Because I played and loved that game when it was the Shizuoka. I can't relate to bg because I have no fond childhood memories of it. Make sense?

I understand what you say, but Chrono Trigger is a great game by the way. I played and finished BG1 (tutu) for the last time in 2008 (can't remember how many times totally), the only reason I don't play it anymore is because I crystal remember all the game outcomes by now (I play only good alignments). It's like watching an old movie, nothing prevents you from enjoying it.

Modifié par Elvhen Veluthil, 22 décembre 2009 - 01:15 .

[blazin130791]

archdemon is a dragon in charge of an army, loghain is a traitor, om BG2 you kill people like that and it's not even the main quest. you can become a god at the end and it feels like you deserve it.

[PsychofromAllandor]

Personally I liked BG more than BG II, and if DA had the open map like BG did I would like it even better.  I'm not a fan of DLC so that kind of detracts from the enjoyments of Dragon Age.  Otherwise it is a great game.  I still miss the map from BG though, large random maps with nothing to do but side quests and collecting party members? Can't beat that in an RPG