81 réponses à ce sujet

[oyzar]

If you feel like reloading is cheating you can participate in the no-reload challenge. Starting from the start again whenever you die on your first playthrough can be even more anoying though...

[rarumberger]

Chebby wrote...

Skill and strategy, eh? Without it, this game is a stonewall to complete.

My point is that skill and strategy alone are not enough.  Well, maybe for some, but I doubt it.  There's a third component needed: omnisicence.  Basically, with skill, strategy, and knowing exactly what will happen ahead of time through reloading to get favourable outcomes, this game is very easily beatable.

Also, I'm glad for the clarification on the antidotes.  I didn't get them, which may indicate a flawed character design, but I purposely left my CHA low, because that's the character I wanted to play.  Instead, I spent my remaining gold stocking up on antidotes, and quite easily handled the spiders.  Turns out the difficulty arose when Khalid was poisoned and died quickly, which left Jaheira and Imoen open to attack, and my character unable to protect them both at once from all directions.  The whole fight lasted about a minute, including pauses, when I applied an antidote to Khalid.

Lesson learned, anyway.  I know I've been spoiled by modern games which provide enough in-game information to prepare for encounters (a la Dragon Age's codex), and I need to get back into the habit of going to the manual while I'm in game.

[Ovenall]

It's the main thing that bothers me about these games.



I know that the boss monster is just beyond the doors. So I spend a solid minute or two buffing the party with spells potions, etc. Then I go in and fight. This is really unrealistic and feels kind of phony even when you do win the battle. There's just no time to buff up properly once you see most encounters, so you're stuck with cheating in a sense.



I guess I still prefer this over the more fast and furious Dragon Age style play, but it's still a problem in my opinion.

[Humanoid_Taifun]

@rarumberger

Unfortunately, the BG2 manual won't help you much here.

[Grond0]

Chebby wrote...
My point is that skill and strategy alone are not enough.  Well, maybe for some, but I doubt it.  There's a third component needed: omnisicence.  Basically, with skill, strategy, and knowing exactly what will happen ahead of time through reloading to get favourable outcomes, this game is very easily beatable.

I've played BG1 a lot over the years, so it is sometimes difficult to remember the feeling when something is entirely new.  However, I think there are very few situations where you can get killed where careful planning beforehand could not avoid it (these few are normally dialogue options which instant-kill you).  For instance:
- Entering a building. Try doing it with an invisible or hidden in shadows character.  If you don't have that option send in just an NPC and be prepared to come straight out again (now with knowledge of what's in there to pass on to others).
- Talking to someone unknown.  Have other party members ready for battle - in correct positions and with the appropriate spells / weapons handy (if low on spells - don't talk).
-  Exploring new territory.  Use a scout ahead of the party - preferably hidden.  Make sure that party is not low on hits and spells.  Be prepared to run away from encounters - if you act quickly you can even run away from missile / spell users and mosnters with no distance attack are easy to avoid.
- Ambushes.  Keep a potion or two of invisibility handy to evade where danger threatens (such as when bandits surround a low-level party).

Remember that you only have to reload if your main character is killed, so protect them.  It's tempting to put them into the action because they're likely to be your most effective character, but don't do it!  Once you know how it's not too difficult to complete BG1 (vanilla) without any character deaths at all, but during learning stages it's better to get experience from NPCs snuffing it.

Playing in this way takes much more time, but it can also deliver far more satisfaction than simply plowing your way through opposition.  It's not that long ago that I finally ventured into Watcher's Keep (in BG2) for the first time, knowing only that others had said the first level was quite possible to complete with a relatively low level party.  The thrill of successfully completing that was much sharper than yet another run through of well-known encounters. 

Modifié par Grond0, 20 décembre 2010 - 09:53 .

[Sparky The Barbarian]

Ovenall wrote...

It's the main thing that bothers me about these games.

I know that the boss monster is just beyond the doors. So I spend a solid minute or two buffing the party with spells potions, etc. Then I go in and fight. This is really unrealistic and feels kind of phony even when you do win the battle. There's just no time to buff up properly once you see most encounters, so you're stuck with cheating in a sense.

I guess I still prefer this over the more fast and furious Dragon Age style play, but it's still a problem in my opinion.

True for the most part, but you do know what awaits you inside the Temple at the end of the game, so pre-buffing is not cheese in this instance.

I have a bigger problem with the 'lure them out one at a time' strategy, where you use the fog of war to lure one bandit into charging, kill him, and then lure the next one out. They come at you one at a time even though they were only a few feet apart. It's like watching an old Tarzan movie. 

[jonnyblueballs]

I guess now that i think about it, there were quite a few sudden deaths in Baldur's Gate on my first and maybe second playthrough too. Kind of makes you wonder how anyone but Drizzt is still alive, with all the basilisks and things running around. On the other hand, if you'd be given briefings about the various enemies then someone would've already killed them all. I do also hate dying in games, especially story driven games, but what can you do.

Sparky The Barbarian wrote...

True for the most part, but you do know what awaits you inside the Temple at the end of the game, so pre-buffing is not cheese in this instance.

I have a bigger problem with the 'lure them out one at a time' strategy, where you use the fog of war to lure one bandit into charging, kill him, and then lure the next one out. They come at you one at a time even though they were only a few feet apart. It's like watching an old Tarzan movie. 

I think that still happens in Dragon Age and the like. Perhaps it's come kind of a message about human condition; that we are oblivious to our neighbour's distress?

[Cowboy_christo]

Sparky The Barbarian wrote...

Ovenall wrote...

It's the main thing that bothers me about these games.

I know that the boss monster is just beyond the doors. So I spend a solid minute or two buffing the party with spells potions, etc. Then I go in and fight. This is really unrealistic and feels kind of phony even when you do win the battle. There's just no time to buff up properly once you see most encounters, so you're stuck with cheating in a sense.

I guess I still prefer this over the more fast and furious Dragon Age style play, but it's still a problem in my opinion.

True for the most part, but you do know what awaits you inside the Temple at the end of the game, so pre-buffing is not cheese in this instance.

I have a bigger problem with the 'lure them out one at a time' strategy, where you use the fog of war to lure one bandit into charging, kill him, and then lure the next one out. They come at you one at a time even though they were only a few feet apart. It's like watching an old Tarzan movie. 

Tactics mod solves this. SCS1&2(sword coast stratagem) is especially helpfull for that. Enemy actually call for help(well humanoid does, beast act as beast). Also several option like the option to let enemy caster buff quickly as if he was prepared. Which make some encounter pretty darn hard.

[shakix]

hmm I just started a new game using the Big World Project with Tactics and it seems insanely hard. It's been a couple of years since I played BG1 but what is the normal/average level a player finishes the Nashkel Mines and how big are the group of kobolds on the third level unmodded? Because I just beat it after about 4 hours but my character is now only level 2 and I had to fight groups of kobolds of around 10-20 at a time. side note : I completed most of the quests in the Inn/ first village 2 playing with core rules

[igneous.sponge]

shakix wrote...

Because I just beat it after about 4 hours but my character is now only level 2 and I had to fight groups of kobolds of around 10-20 at a time. side note : I completed most of the quests in the Inn/ first village 2 playing with core rules

Your party members are still low-level because the BiG World Project installs an experience limiter, in order to cope with the vast amount of content—and, thus, XP—introduced.

From what I've read, BWP Tactical installs are generally supposed to be insane, yes.

[Flamedance]

igneous.sponge wrote...

shakix wrote...

Because I just beat it after about 4 hours but my character is now only level 2 and I had to fight groups of kobolds of around 10-20 at a time. side note : I completed most of the quests in the Inn/ first village 2 playing with core rules

Your party members are still low-level because the BiG World Project installs an experience limiter, in order to cope with the vast amount of content—and, thus, XP—introduced.

From what I've read, BWP Tactical installs are generally supposed to be insane, yes.

The BWP installer has been refined and you can now choose not to install the xp balancer that cuts all xp gained in half. If you do choose to install it, be prepared for some pretty tough battles, especially in the SoA/ToB part of the game. You can still easily be lvl 9/10 (depending on party size) when facing Sarevok, though. Not that that makes him a walkover in a Tactics install....

[yslee]

In BG series I recall it's mostly the bosses that can be tough. One or two encounters early on in both games teach you to be careful and not go in swinging.



The thing about them also is that they are based on AD&D 2nd Ed, which is more suited to table-top gaming. When one is controlling a party of six that is normally controlled by 6 people, there can be things you overlook. Essentially you need to micromanage a lot, and pause the game even more. Compared to the more fast and furious style of gameplay in say, Dragon Age, this does feel like a step backwards. Kind of why I don't miss the old games that much!

[Chebby]

HT is correct; the manual's not much help in terms of enemies. Try the Forgotten Realms wikia for a basic insight, but the monster manuals have most likely changed dramatically. Remember that this game was intended for people who knew the rules via player's handbook and knew enemy properties via monster manuals etc.

Addressing the difficulty I'm sure some of it will stem from the realtime aspect for some people. I myself would've preferred these games if they were turn based. With a good interface, it wouldn't necessarily be slow, there'd be more room for game rules and game balance. The only game I know that emulated DnD style play well was Wizardry 8 (not perfectly, mind you, but it was decent) although I've not played all the DnD video games, so I'm probably missing out.

[Humanoid_Taifun]

You could try the autopause function, Chebby: Pause at the end of every round

[Morbidest]

Alternatively, autopause whenever you kill someone, or cast a spell. It's slightly less disruptive, but still makes sure you're not wasting opportunities.

[Chebby]

That's not entirely turn based. Squares, initiative orders, move speeds and such. I'd love to see that in the new Neverwinter game, for instance, but for other reasons I've got little to no faith in it.

[oyzar]

Heroes of might and magic used to have turnbased combat, I am not sure I like that kind of combat better. Personally I prefer the pauseheavy combat with multiple characters in BG/BG2 rather than the more fastpaced with less in DA:O (since I am pausing anyway).

[moilami]

Trenrade wrote...

Maybe I'm an idiot, but I'm trying BG1 and it's super crazy hard. Maybe I'm biting off more than I can chew. I left candlekeep, ran around the
Friendly Arm Inn got Jaheira and Khalid and got quests, went to Nashkel and got some more
quests, went south to this woods area and my guys get one shotted. Don't
know what I'm doing wrong. All my quests are sending me in that
direction. I also slid the difficulty meter all the way down but I'm still have a ton of troubles. I have a dwarf fighter.




Some advice would be nice

Hehe excuse my bad rhyme

You have got very good advice but, um, I want to say that first of all what I would do would be to experience the RPG par excellence like it would be a real world. That is no reading of spoilers. Just learning things by myself and figuring out my way in the world. If something seems to be off-limits, go somewhere else and come back later. You have plenty of freedom to explore, learn, and grow in many ways.

That is what I did, and enjoyed greatly!

Modifié par moilami, 27 décembre 2010 - 02:19 .

[Bhryaen]

moilami wrote...
... first of all what I would do would be to experience the RPG par excellence like it would be a real world. That is no reading of spoilers. Just learning things by myself and figuring out my way in the world. If something seems to be off-limits, go somewhere else and come back later. You have plenty of freedom to explore, learn, and grow in many ways.

That is what I did, and enjoyed greatly!

This is really the crux of it. You play the game how it works for you. If you're new to the game and don't want to metagame (as in "I'm in a game now, so I'll mess around & get killed experimenting because I can just reload and do it the right way the second time") but you also don't want to be killed because that just kills the game for you, then just live it as if you're there- rp it like you would if you had no choices but the ones the game presents to you (and BG, particularly BG1, does offer you plenty of alternatives)- but most importantly, BE CAREFUL!

In essence it is exactly what Chebby said about "enjoying the struggle," but in practical terms- and without making a single necessarily BG-specific suggestion- this means doing what several people have suggested in general: don't put your main char's life on the line first because, whether or not you can resurrect fallen NPCs, if you die your NPC companions will simply hold a nice funeral service (if they survive the same encounter themselves); don't fight unknown monsters like giant spiders in melee combat unless you're prepared to discover that they can easily kill you in ways you hadn't anticipated; don't assume ANYthing is easy to kill (especially wolves which also kept killing my first characters and still do); don't enter any room or area without scouting first (or be prepared to face consequences); don't talk to strangers (even when they're walking right toward you) unless you're ready to fight them to the death; don't talk to strangers rudely if you want them to have a nice reaction (although this doesn't always work either [resisting adding a spoiler]); don't enter any battle (but especially with unknown adversaries) without buffing to the max first; think carefully and tactically about every battleground before engaging the fight and determine if you can realistically fight it, be aware of your full skills base (which spells, weapons, defenses, HP, healing potions, etc.) to determine how best to allocate them in a range of circumstances; always have an exit strategy; learn fast how and when to take risks; play it safe until you learn the ropes. That's all just common sense, so surely there is more to add.

BG is a world full of dangerous monsters and- clearly by the end of Candlekeep- people trying to kill you, plus you're out on your own with minimal supplies and skills after the death of your protector Gorion, so... best to attack anything with a red circle? I don't think BG1 really has any situations that insta-kill you, and if you follow simple, matter-of-fact survival tactics like those mentioned above- all based on assuming that if your char dies, you die- I don't think there really are many places in BG1 that will auto-overwhelm you no matter what you do. (Perhaps certain ambushes by dragonlike creatures might qualify, however...) It's a matter of patience and foresight more than advance knowledge. Again that approach can be taken with any game. I can't count the number of players I used to see in online NWN games whose only combat method was "see a monster, click a monster..." usually subsequently ending up dead. It's not just monsters either but also traps from opening every chest on the screen willy-nilly or running about every eery cave or mine shaft as if built for your char to traverse at leisure. [Hopefully not a spoiler there.]

Now if you use SCS or Tactics mods, tactics change and the battles are even more difficult- i.e., dangerous- so all normal precautions must be doubled. And as one person mentioned, either of those two BG mods eliminates the fog of war cheese, enabling group creatures (including wolves which travel in packs) to attack you as a whole if you attack even one. At least with SCS you can even install only the "Call for Help" component without enhancing the AI of BG1 opponents. But even at the hardest modding, still there are no insta-kills (that I've found so far, that is).

Obviously there is nothing you can do other than play a different game if you want to experience a game you've never experienced before... Goes without saying? The only option is to go into the game and as soon as you're killed or defeated (as you're somewhat likely to be), buy a different game. I think you'll exhaust your list of games pretty quickly that way unless you're some sort of supergamer who can master any game without dying (or, of course, get all your survival and success spoon-fed to you)... Game designers go through a lot of trouble to make the layout and storyline exactly the way it is- and for me the charm of BG is precisely how the layout and storyline pan out, the reason I keep playing it over and over regardless of advanced knowledge- but there is a range of different classes and races to play, at least a script for random treasure (albeit with a mod called Item Randomizer in BG1, maybe BG2 also), random encounters while traveling between areas, random spawns in some spots, random locations for monsters that have a wandering script, random attack and damage rolls, and of course the tendency to forget things you thought you knew by heart- i.e., many, many elements that make each BG game different. And modding in general (I've discovered lately) adds all sorts of new elements to the experience, even if you still know where the bosses are. My main disappointment in BG has been in the artificial and absurd restrictions placed on both monsters and my PC, but mods have resolved practically all of them.

That said, I for one, however, feel no pangs of conscience with the experiment-die-reload method- especially because I sometimes enjoy blundering into danger knowing I have a special power of time travel to go back to before I was killed. But I play games either way. Plus only my clerics have a WIS over 10, so if I'm to play "in character" it might be expected that they'd rush into a room full of enormous spiders thinking everything is an easy click-and-kill too! hehehe Keep in mind that "Kill a bunch of spiders in my basement is a standard 1st level quest" is outright metagaming... Again, not evil in my book, but not true to the "give it to me challengingly" approach.

I might add also that there is a difference between "challenging" (as it's been described here) and DANGEROUS (!!!). Technically a pack of gibberlings could overwhelm my low level party and kill me- i.e., if they keep rolling 20s and surround me while I keep rolling 1s- so that's a bit challenging... but not DANGEROUS (!!!) (like a couple of dread wolves at that level, for instance). If there isn't the potential for blundering into a situation that can completely overwhelm you (due to your own miscalculation, lack of tactics, and/ or also perhaps running out of luck), then it really isn't challenging, is it? It's just more work. I've played through both Dungeon Siege's, and all it comes down to really is just a lot of work clicking and clicking monsters and moving forward with very little chance of dying unless you just force the issue. (And it's possible to be "killed," lying there at the foot of the monster that killed you, slowly healing at last back to 1HP, killed by the same apparently interminally vindictive creature, heal again, get killed again- like some torture scene from Dante's "Inferno," reliving the moment of your violent death for all time.) BG is more real- no Wolverine power to regenerate and battles can be over within an instant if you pick the wrong fight or haven't healed up properly or forget to put your armor back on, etc.

The whole nature of the OP's intent, mind you, was to get some better grasp of how to survive, and it seems perfectly reasonable to do so. I admit that I prefer to just get it "beaten into me," as someone else in this thread said. I love the game "The Bard's Tale"- maybe better than BG although I don't play it anymore- but when I started I was clueless as to how to actually beat monsters and was almost discouraged enough to stop trying because I felt I just could not master it at all. I never went online to a tBT forum or sought out a tBT strategy guide. I just kept getting killed over and over for hours until finally I figured out the whole block-and-jab method that propelled me through several completions of the game, a difficulty I experienced mostly because I was used to the utterly different BG & NWN DnD combat system. DnD battles lack the realism of that method by making everything a matter of raw probability- a roll of the dice- so that skill with the game is a matter of learning to "play the dice" rather than to execute your char's movements exactly- i.e., the monster will miss because it rolled a 4 rather than because you failed to hit the block button fast in the right rhythm or didn't dodge an arrow shot at you. In tBT you can be killed fairly handily at a high level with good equipment even by weaker creatures if you just stand there- and if you don't block or dodge the creatures will hit you, but in BG if you just stand there with AC -5 against gibberlings without doing anything to block or evade blows you nevertheless are barely ever hit simply due to a very low probability of being hit. Even rolling your char stats is a struggle against probability- i.e., the probability of an average score. So you must maximize the probability of hitting while minimizing the probability of getting hit.

In terms of BG1 tactics most of the best suggestions have already been mentioned, but I wanted to mention at least one more that branches off what the humanoid, Taifun, said initially about minimizing getting hit in the first place. The archery and ranged spellcasting (i.e., attacks from afar) method works wonders for defeating melee-based attackers, but the way I've been using to make it work is to prolong the period during which the attacker gets no attack at all by letting the attacker chase one NPC that has the lowest AC (good DEX, heavy armor, shield- i.e., the tank) while the rest of the party pelts the attacker. This may seem contrary to normal tank behavior- i.e., running away from battle rather than headlong into it- but even the tank can be injured, and if you can't heal the tank in time, they die. Then you have no tank, you see, and they come after weaker chars like perhaps yourself. Probability may make tank melee a reasonable risk in some cases- and in other cases the tank can't help being cornered, or it may be far more useful to send him to attack, say, a spellcaster before they cast or force melee upon an attacking archer with poison arrows to make them resort to using a non-poisoned little short sword instead. But normally otherwise I'd rather let the tank take as little damage as possible too. The difficulty of this method can be in maintaining the attacker's attention on the tank (or at least the runner) rather than coming after my ranged protagonists.

Despite what another poster said, healing potions are not cheap (at least given starting gold and particularly in Hard Times) and not overly plentiful if you're trying to keep at least 2-3 on all your chars- and particularly not potions of Speed or Strength or Invisibility potions which are relatively rare finds (at least not so many that you don't need a rationing policy). And even if you have a cleric who can heal you, he only has so many spells before needing to rest, and rest can also be dangerous. So I ration everything, minimizing the attacks of the attacker while maximizing the attacks of my party. Yes, I min-max my BG games.

As to this last method there is a semi-metagaming tip to offer concerning pursing attackers. For whatever reason my chars can weave around trees and rocks and hills and such without any movement difficulty, but non-NPC creatures pursuing them often get hung up at least a little trying to shift direction around immovable objects (and especially monsters with the large red circles of the unmodded vanilla game), so you can even keep distance between your runner and a faster creature like a wolf by dodging through trees rather than bolting across an open field. Also most creatures are hampered at least a little by getting hit by your non-runner archers, so an arrow-pelted wolf moves at a more hampered pace than an unscathed wolf.

Another method that I've seen go less mentioned on this forum than I had anticipated is the hide-in-shadows ability of thieves. Thieves can fire at an enemy- or backstab though this may allow any attacker who has a fast attack speed or casts spells to get you before you can get away, especially if the thief misses- and then round a corner to where the pursued thief can't be seen (preferably to a shadowed location) and enter shadows. The pursuer then runs at the thief but can't get there before he disappears. Then the thief can go to another location and repeat... until the purser dies without having gotten a single attack. The risk is that you won't make it to the hiding place in time or that your hide-in-shadows roll doesn't pan out and now the pursuer will know exactly where you are. (And did I have an exit strategy when I failed my HIS roll once I got to the far side of the cave bear's cave??? Nooo...)

[Edits for grammar]

Modifié par Bhryaen, 29 décembre 2010 - 05:15 .

[Tchos]

Bhryaen, that is a great, well-thought-out post. I only recently started taking advantage of the hide-in-shadows backstabbing, and I'd already made a habit of running around a corner and hiding if guards show up when I'm checking out cabinets in houses, but I hadn't thought of running away to hide again and then getting in another backstab.

The wild goose chase tank strategy against melee enemies is also a good one. I remember doing that once for a boss in Dragon Age, but I hadn't thought to try it regularly.

So far, the only fight that has defied my attempts to win it is the last one in BG1 (which I will not describe as spoilers are not allowed in here), at core rules difficulty.

Modifié par Tchos, 01 janvier 2011 - 12:41 .

[Gecon]

Zaxares wrote...

One other thing you need to know about the BG series is that (to the best of my recollection), enemies do NOT scale up or down to your level. Therefore, if you're in an area where monsters are just too hard, try coming back again when you're a higher level.

Uh, that is completely wrong, BG scales as well.

Unless you talk about Diablo / Oblivion style scaling, where enemies always have your own level - that certainly doesnt happen in BG.

[Bhryaen]

Tchos wrote...
I only recently started taking advantage of the hide-in-shadows backstabbing, and I'd already made a habit of running around a corner and hiding if guards show up when I'm checking out cabinets in houses, but I hadn't thought of running away to hide again and then getting in another backstab.

This is the kind of tactic that mostly only works if you can pick up speed- magic items or spells- though if the enemy is slow enough or gets dazed when hit, it can also work. Also if you have a party and get the attacker to hold up near a corner, your thief can enter the fight later, creeping around to backstab, then run around the corner, stealth, and dive in to get in another backstab. If you're outdoors you can at least get the first strike of your thief as a backstab by keeping them stealthed while others begin the fight- either the tank holding them at a nice stabbing point or leading them by a chase that passes the thief's location. Thieves can defeat mages and clerics easily too when they have a corner nearby to duck behind, especially when they cast spells that take a while to come to fruition. Don't underestimate archery either, because even without the opportunity to backstab, you can creep just around a corner, fire off a shot, then duck back in shadows before they even know where to aim their own arrows or spells. For monsters that could clobber you with a single hit, distance is safer than backstabs...

But again, you'll need sufficient Hide In Shadows score and a more shadowy corner to duck into. If your HIS roll fails... they come after you. And if your corner leaves you cornered, well, now you're a plain melee fighter...

Mind you, that is pretty much all Vanilla BG. Now that I've modded, I'm
lucky to get any backstabs in at all, mostly stealthing for scouting (so
I could've just been a ranger...) I can't even get into shadows in the
middle of the night 100% of the time despite putting 115% into Hide in
Shadows and wearing extra HIS magic. And enemies are very clever not to
simply wait there for you to slip in a longsword, they call their
friends to crowd around the area where the stab or shot took place, and
if you have any other party members, your one shot becomes an open
declaration of battle. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/pinched.png[/smilie]

As for escaping town guards who want to kill you for stealing 2gp from a locked chest, if you can duck upstairs and stealth, then you can come back down and glide past them unseen out the front door. In maybe 24 hrs the guards are no longer patrolling the house in case there were multiple locked chests in that room.. I always preliminarily measure how much distance I have from the point of "someone noticed you!" to the nearest exit (out, upstairs, whatever) or hiding place and gauge whether I'll need to use special means to avoid the conversation. If you pause, swipe the goods, then Hide in Shadows, you can usually make it regardless. Of course there's the other tactic I learned... just use your fist to pummel witnesses to the ground. Then no one is conscious to notice the theft, but you haven't killed anyone either. A bit crude though, and you'll never be able to converse with them again, so you'd better hope they're not important NPCs.

The wild goose chase tank strategy against melee enemies is also a good one. I remember doing that once for a boss in Dragon Age, but I hadn't thought to try it regularly.

So far, the only fight that has defied my attempts to win it is the last one in BG1 (which I will not describe as spoilers are not allowed in here), at core rules difficulty.

If you mean the end of the game battle [shouldn't be a spoiler to say that], I can attest to winning it solo with a fighter-thief simply by running from concealed location to concealed location. Won the game with a backstab. hehe... Actually the game before that I won it the same way by putting the rest of the party out of sight and doing the same thing with a fighter-thief NPC. It was ridiculously easy, though less flashy than magic and more time-consuming. Again, the mods I have now would make that tactic ridiculously disastrous.

Remember that if your tank is faster than their melee attacker(s), the chase can go on just as long as required for archers and spellslingers to do their thing.

[Tchos]

This is the kind of tactic that mostly only works if you can pick up speed- magic items or spells

Yes, I usually cast haste on my party if I'm expecting a fight.

If you're outdoors you can at least get the first strike of your thief as a backstab by keeping them stealthed while others begin the fight- either the tank holding them at a nice stabbing point or leading them by a chase that passes the thief's location.

Heh, very precognitive, as I had just done that outside Durlag's Tower a few minutes ago.  My mage with improved invisibility shot a fireball at a group of enemies, and led the one that survived past the stealthed Imoen, who took him out with one backstab. 

Don't underestimate archery either, because even without the opportunity to backstab, you can creep just around a corner, fire off a shot, then duck back in shadows before they even know where to aim their own arrows or spells.

I'm actually doing both.  My party includes Imoen and Alora.  I have Imoen doing the backstabbing, because she has 90+ skill in Hide In Shadows, while Alora's is a bit low, so she has the bow, though of course it's sometimes helpful to have her go in for close combat too if the circumstances are right.

If you mean the end of the game battle [shouldn't be a spoiler to say that], I can attest to winning it solo with a fighter-thief simply by running from concealed location to concealed location.

That's the one I mean, and it's the only one that I think might fall under the topic of ridiculously hard, though I would never say so.  Very challenging, I say, and I'm glad for the challenge.  I just hope that my time in Durlag's Tower will toughen me up enough to get through it this time.

[Bhryaen]

Tchos wrote...
My mage with improved invisibility shot a fireball at a group of enemies, and led the one that survived past the stealthed Imoen, who took him out with one backstab. 

Gotta love that... Sometimes it's hard to coordinate, so you tell your thief to attack, but they swing too late or early and either don't get the extra backstab damage (because they frontstab instead) or they fall behind, simply become unstealthed swinging behind. When it does work it's great. I forgot to mention the rather cheesy method of fighter-thieves stealthing up behind a foe, putting on heavy armor while still unseen, and THEN backstabbing. It can then revert to melee with the fighter-thief having gotten a nice bit of damage in already. It's just a bit absurd to change into full plate while stealthed- whether in BG1 vanilla unpaused backpack or the paused BG2 one...

That's the one I mean, and it's the only one that I think might fall under the topic of ridiculously hard, though I would never say so.  Very challenging, I say, and I'm glad for the challenge.  I just hope that my time in Durlag's Tower will toughen me up enough to get through it this time.

Even if Durlag's doesn't toughen you up being one of the hardest areas of BG1, I'd recommended it as one of the best miniadventures of BG1 to expereince. That said, regarding the final battle, just remember that most foes have their Achilles Heel. Spellcasters can be dispelled, interrupted, and archered, while meleers can be befuddled by the chase, (though archers and invisible foes seem to have far too much advantage) and some low-level spells like Blindness (so I've recently discovered) offer exceptional advantages if you can pull them off. Do a tally of the final battle, and you'll see how winnable it is...

Again, this is Vanilla advice. Modded BG1 is a very wild card...

Modifié par Bhryaen, 04 janvier 2011 - 01:06 .

[oyzar]

BG1 is rather hard if you try to melee everything. With careful kiting almost all fights are rather easy though, ideally you have all the enemies running after one character, but usually they branch of so you have 6 different characters to send in 6 different directions. Even with ranged opponents a light element of kiting can makes things easier. That is not to mention the mobs that are just plain slower than the player characters, those you can just keep running backwards from.