176 réponses à ce sujet

[TJPags]

ThunderfoxF wrote...

Same backstory, same personality, same character.

and I notice you didn't commant on my link which shows Isabela in the editor, and she doesn't look that different.

I saw your link (which was to the whole thread) but I don't know what pic you wanted to point me to.  The first pic, of her in what I assume is the character editor (I don't have the PC version) still doesn't look like the new version.  Sorry.
And same backstory - yes.  Same personality?  I'll assume so.  Looks COMPLETELY different?  Yup.
How's that the same person?  It's her evil twin or something.

[TJPags]

nijnij wrote...

Will this argument ever be over ? If people took the time to read through the pages of the many Isabela threads instead of complaining about her chin all the time, they would see that
1- it's an angle thing ; there are other screen shots
2- their taste isn't universal
3- the writers have explained several times why her look has been changed from the previous game
-and 4 (in case this comes up again) : she's not a ****.

If no one reads anyone, it's not a conversation, it's endless spamming !

1.  Don't really care about angles.
2.  DOn't really care if people think she's hot or not.
3.  And the excuses they gave really come down to "because we felt like it" - and I feel like complaining about that. 
4.  Don't care if she is or isn't.

[nijnij]

I think the very nature of the problem is that you guys don't care a lot.

Modifié par nijnij, 30 octobre 2010 - 02:37 .

[TJPags]

nijnij wrote...

I think the very nature of the problem is that you guys don't care a lot.

Speaking only for myself, I care about continuity.  In looks, in sound, and in atmoshpere.

I don't mind things being improved, not at all.  If the new engine allows characters to look more lifelike, more power to it.  Take the old character, make it look more lifelike, but make it look similar.  Not completely different.

It makes me wonder what Morrigan, or Leliana, or anyone else from DAO or DAA will look like.

Given the huge change in both Flemeth and in Isabela, I think it's a fair concern.

[nijnij]

Well, I was especially ranting about the neverending chin remarks. About the change of looks, I find it only mildly disturbing since she was a very minor character in the first game. Now I was a bit surprised myself when I saw the new Flemeth, but of all the characters, she's the one for whom a change in appearance would be the least shocking : she's a a powerful being who, from what we can guess in the first game, has stolen bodies to increase her life, and even a shapeshifter, she has to live up to her legend. It would have been odd for her to stay in that boring hut of hers with her rags, especially if you killed her as a dragon : if she has to be back from the dead, she'd better come back more powerful than ever. Besides, apart from the clothes, she didn't change that much. She just looks, well... more powerful (slightly younger).

Generally speaking, I don't mind changes in art direction (I don't think the armors should necessarily look the same for example since they were a bit too generic in DA:O IMO) as long as they're not utter retcons. I'm much more bothered by horned Qunaris for example : I liked the idea of Qunaris being extremely strong men from faraway, almost supermen, but somehow, if they have horns, they're less impressive in a way, because you expect a horned creature to be strong.

Modifié par nijnij, 30 octobre 2010 - 03:26 .

[TJPags]

Yes, the horned Qunari bother me too.



To me, it seems like an epidemic of:



"hey, we can completely change this using the new engine!!!"

"but how will that make sense?"

"who cares, it's a new engine!!!!!!!!!"



And that's troublesome to me, since they seem to be trying to make a franchise series of games here. We have new Qunari, new darkspawn, dwarves and elves (although those changes don't seem too drastic) a new Flemeth (although yes, that CAN be explained to a greater or lesser extent depending on when we see her) and now a new Isabela.



I'd like to be able to see a returning character and recognize them on sight.

[nijnij]

That I hope too. I would love to see Sten as a general or something for returning successful after the Blight with Asala. Or even choosing sides against the apparently evil Qunaris from the trailers based on what he learned from humans, elves and dwarves.

[Thunderfox]

TJPags wrote...

ThunderfoxF wrote...

Same backstory, same personality, same character.

and I notice you didn't commant on my link which shows Isabela in the editor, and she doesn't look that different.

I saw your link (which was to the whole thread) but I don't know what pic you wanted to point me to.  The first pic, of her in what I assume is the character editor (I don't have the PC version) still doesn't look like the new version.  Sorry.
And same backstory - yes.  Same personality?  I'll assume so.  Looks COMPLETELY different?  Yup.
How's that the same person?  It's her evil twin or something.

Yeah the first one. Sorry I pointed you to the BioWare comments, I couldn't find just a seperate picture of that. But we'll it's not exactly, it refutes yours comments about hair color and skin color( Bit darker in DAO but still close).

Still I can see we can never agree on this, so I'm done

[Aedan_Cousland]

TJPags wrote...

The problem, I think, is that many of us saw her in DAO . . . and realize, this isn't the same person . . .

This.

My biggest gripe about her is that they changed her appearance. She looks nothing like the woman you meet in DA:O. Even the facial features are completely different. If they are going to bring back characters from DA:O they should at least resemble the same person. While clothing and hair style or color might change, facial features should not.

Modifié par Aedan_Cousland, 30 octobre 2010 - 07:03 .

[upsettingshorts]

Yeah, sorry, I've spent too many years of my youth watching James Bond movies to give even the slightest bit of a damn that characters who look and act different are the same because we're told they're the same.  Roger Moore and Timothy Dalton could hardly have been different looking or approached the character more differently, but guess what, they're both James Bond.  So where does that leave us?  Picking which one we like better, not whining about the fact there's a change.

Heck, I even bought that Maggie Gyllenhaall was Katie Holmes in The Dark Knight.

Cue the "but it's a video game" responses that ignore how they changed the graphics significantly to the point that no character from DA:O that would appear in DA:2 would retain the same look.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 30 octobre 2010 - 07:08 .

[TJPags]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Yeah, sorry, I've spent too many years of my youth watching James Bond movies to give even the slightest bit of a damn that characters who look and act different are the same because we're told they're the same.  Roger Moore and Timothy Dalton could hardly have been different looking or approached the character more differently, but guess what, they're both James Bond.  So where does that leave us?  Picking which one we like better, not whining about the fact there's a change.

Heck, I even bought that Maggie Gyllenhaall was Katie Holmes in The Dark Knight.

Cue the "but it's a video game" responses that ignore how they changed the graphics significantly to the point that no character from DA:O that would appear in DA:2 would retain the same look.

Fine.  When your Hawke runs into some dude in the Free Marches who says he's Nate Howe, and yet he's blond, balding, and 40 pounds overweight, or a tall, shapely blond with an italian accent who claims she's Morrigan,well, hey, just think of them as a new Bond, mmkay?

[upsettingshorts]

TJPags wrote...

Fine.  When your Hawke runs into some dude in the Free Marches who says he's Nate Howe, and yet he's blond, balding, and 40 pounds overweight, or a tall, shapely blond with an italian accent who claims she's Morrigan,well, hey, just think of them as a new Bond, mmkay?

Sure thing, will do.  Your attempt at belittling my point by reducing it to an absurd conclusion has failed utterly.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 30 octobre 2010 - 07:22 .

[Aedan_Cousland]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Cue the "but it's a video game" responses that ignore how they changed the graphics significantly to the point that no character from DA:O that would appear in DA:2 would retain the same look.

Characters in movie sequels look different only because they are played by different actors. That isn't an issue with video games, even when there are different graphics engines. Case in point: Star Wars. How many Star Wars games have there been where Luke Skywalker made an appearance? Luke Skywalker still looks like Luke Sywalker whether you are playing Jedi Outcast or Star Wars Battlefront.

[upsettingshorts]

Aedan_Cousland wrote...
Characters in movie sequels look different only because they are played by different actors. That isn't an issue with video games, even when there are different graphics engines.

And my contention is what they're both visual mediums where they're free to "recast" roles just as in movies.  I have no problem with them recasting Isabela because she's going to have a more prominent role and as a result they wanted to change her appearance and her voice actress.  

In fact, I'm gonna go with that summary: I have no issue with Bioware recasting Isabela due to her larger role in DA:2.

[TJPags]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Fine.  When your Hawke runs into some dude in the Free Marches who says he's Nate Howe, and yet he's blond, balding, and 40 pounds overweight, or a tall, shapely blond with an italian accent who claims she's Morrigan,well, hey, just think of them as a new Bond, mmkay?

Sure thing, will do.  Your attempt at belittling my point by reducing it to an absurd conclusion has failed utterly.

yes, and your attempt to belittle others who actually DO want some continuity in their sequels also failed.  As badly as Bioware did with their redesign of an existing character.

[upsettingshorts]

TJPags wrote...
yes, and your attempt to belittle others who actually DO want some continuity in their sequels also failed.  As badly as Bioware did with their redesign of an existing character.

Remember when they cast a blonde guy as James Bond and there was this huge uproar that lasted right until the movie got released and everyone forgot about it because Daniel Craig was (censored) awesome?  Yeh, that's pretty much  how I expect this Isabela thing to go.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 30 octobre 2010 - 07:23 .

[Aedan_Cousland]

I do.

What's the point in significantly changing her appearance? I undestand that as a major character in the sequel she needs a revamp, but that could have been done with her still resembling the character we met in the Pearl. What do the changes accomplish beyond breaking continuity with the first game?

Modifié par Aedan_Cousland, 30 octobre 2010 - 07:25 .

[TJPags]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

TJPags wrote...
yes, and your attempt to belittle others who actually DO want some continuity in their sequels also failed.  As badly as Bioware did with their redesign of an existing character.

Remember when they cast a blonde guy as James Bond and there was this huge uproar that lasted right until the movie got released and everyone forgot about it because Daniel Craig was (censored) awesome?  Yeh, that's pretty much  how I expect this Isabela thing to go.

You know, you keep referencing James Bond movies.  For the record, I could care less about Bond movies - they all suck.

[Saibh]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

TJPags wrote...
yes, and your attempt to belittle others who actually DO want some continuity in their sequels also failed.  As badly as Bioware did with their redesign of an existing character.

Remember when they cast a blonde guy as James Bond and there was this huge uproar that lasted right until the movie got released and everyone forgot about it because Daniel Craig was (censored) awesome?  Yeh, that's pretty much  how I expect this Isabela thing to go.

I don't really like that example because it was an entirely new Bond continuity. They could have made him ginger, they wouldn't have been doing anything wrong, per se. There is, however, a set precendent for Isabela's voice and appearance.

I, for one, don't mind the change, but I understand why people might get upset that Dragon Age is going through massive overhauls to its art design.

[Aedan_Cousland]

TJPags wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

TJPags wrote...
yes, and your attempt to belittle others who actually DO want some continuity in their sequels also failed.  As badly as Bioware did with their redesign of an existing character.

Remember when they cast a blonde guy as James Bond and there was this huge uproar that lasted right until the movie got released and everyone forgot about it because Daniel Craig was (censored) awesome?  Yeh, that's pretty much  how I expect this Isabela thing to go.

You know, you keep referencing James Bond movies.  For the record, I could care less about Bond movies - they all suck.

The difference between James Bond movies is that all are essentially stand alones. James Bond is always roughly around the same age regardless of whether he's saving in the world in the 1960s or in 2008. If James Bond movies are still being made in the 22nd Century, he'll still be ageless. Really you can't look at individual bond movies as if they are sequels of each other. Each movie is a stand alone.

That isn't the case with Dragon Age where there is a definite timeline and some form of continuity between games.

Modifié par Aedan_Cousland, 30 octobre 2010 - 07:31 .

[upsettingshorts]

TJPags wrote...

You know, you keep referencing James Bond movies.  For the record, I could care less about Bond movies - they all suck.

You know, people keep saying "could care less" when they really mean "couldn't care less."  For the record.

Anyway, I don't want to monopolize the thread.  Suffice to say that from where I sit narrative continuity - she's still a hedonistic pirate - is much more important than precise visual continuity.

[falconlord5]

TJPags wrote...

Yes, the horned Qunari bother me too.

To me, it seems like an epidemic of:

"hey, we can completely change this using the new engine!!!"
"but how will that make sense?"
"who cares, it's a new engine!!!!!!!!!"

And that's troublesome to me, since they seem to be trying to make a franchise series of games here. We have new Qunari, new darkspawn, dwarves and elves (although those changes don't seem too drastic) a new Flemeth (although yes, that CAN be explained to a greater or lesser extent depending on when we see her) and now a new Isabela.

I'd like to be able to see a returning character and recognize them on sight.

Horned Qunari are referenced in DA:O, they're not new.

[TJPags]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

TJPags wrote...

You know, you keep referencing James Bond movies.  For the record, I could care less about Bond movies - they all suck.

You know, people keep saying "could care less" when they really mean "couldn't care less."  For the record.

Anyway, I don't want to monopolize the thread.  Suffice to say that from where I sit narrative continuity - she's still a hedonistic pirate - is much more important than precise visual continuity.

You know, this isn't an english class or a primer on grammar.  For the record.  Sue me for using slang on an internet message board. 

Modifié par TJPags, 30 octobre 2010 - 07:38 .

[upsettingshorts]

It's one of my Pet Peeves ™. I let so much other stuff go. It's not grammar, it's the fact you're saying what might be considered the opposite of what you mean. I even give my mom **** when she does it. Trust me, it's just something that annoys me, I try not to make a habit out of enforcing spelling or grammar. But I have my moments of weakness.

[Francis Lacuna]

nijnij wrote...

Now I was a bit surprised myself when I saw the new Flemeth.........
........... apart from the clothes, she didn't change that much. She just looks, well... more powerful (slightly younger).

Kicking that brat out of the house really did wonders for her don't ya think? Toss on a change of clothes, a long bath, a full nights rest and a touch of makeup....its like she were only a hundred years old again! (I really don't know how old she is)

Generally speaking, I don't mind changes in art direction (I don't think the armors should necessarily look the same for example since they were a bit too generic in DA:O IMO) as long as they're not utter retcons.

We've redone the armors across the board to fit with the new art style (no more women with linebacker wide shoulders!) so they won't be wearing the same models they wore in the first. But they would probably wear something similar and identifiable if their look was signature. Like how the templar armors are different stylistically, but still look like templar armor.

To address some of the concerns about returning characters though, upgrading the heads was a huge goal among us character artists. We didn't choose to improve everyones look just because of the art style, but because we revamped the head system entirely. We've redone textures completley to be less stretchy and more detailed and worked very hard to make these brand new face meshes animate spectacularly better than before. But we are aware of the attachment value of particular characters from DA:O and the need for consistency, so we're being very careful about re-introducing familiar faces. 

Minor characters who didn't get the same polish in the first one but became breakout stars in the second, (Isabela) get overhauls to give them the uniqueness and appeal that their characters deserved. So they now stand out among the rest.

For major characters who might return, they would remain the same structurally and cosmetically. Especially the humans, unless the the art director or design/writing deem it otherwise. We really want cameos to be recognized at a glance or familiar under scrutiny. That said, no matter how much we might try, due to the new head system and the art style, the lighting engine and camera work, they may not look 100% identical. Its unfortunate, but we hope they'll at least be recognizable. For the races that have been stylized, such as the dwarves and elves, the changes will be apparent but we hope to keep their cosmetic features the same (hair, eye color and tattoos)

We put a lot of effort into creating the star characters of DA:O, we love them as much as you all do. If they happen to get a makeover, it will get the same amount of care, love and attention to detail that went into them originally and we hope you'll agree with us that it was for the better.

Modifié par SonFrancisco, 30 octobre 2010 - 07:58 .