176 réponses à ce sujet

[chex mix]

SonFrancisco wrote...

nijnij wrote...

Now I was a bit surprised myself when I saw the new Flemeth.........
........... apart from the clothes, she didn't change that much. She just looks, well... more powerful (slightly younger).

Kicking that brat out of the house really did wonders for her don't ya think? Toss on a change of clothes, a long bath, a full nights rest and a touch of makeup....its like she were only a hundred years old again! (I really don't know how old she is)

Generally speaking, I don't mind changes in art direction (I don't think the armors should necessarily look the same for example since they were a bit too generic in DA:O IMO) as long as they're not utter retcons.

We've redone the armors across the board to fit with the new art style (no more women with linebacker wide shoulders!) so they won't be wearing the same models they wore in the first. But they would probably wear something similar and identifiable if their look was signature. Like how the templar armors are different stylistically, but still look like templar armor.

To address some of the concerns about returning characters though, upgrading the heads was a huge goal among us character artists. We didn't choose to improve everyones look just because of the art style, but because we revamped the head system entirely. We've redone textures completley to be less stretchy and more detailed and worked very hard to make these brand new face meshes animate spectacularly better than before. But we are aware of the attachment value of particular characters from DA:O and the need for consistency, so we're being very careful about re-introducing familiar faces. 

Minor characters who didn't get the same polish in the first one but became breakout stars in the second, (Isabela) get overhauls to give them the uniqueness and appeal that their characters deserved. So they now stand out among the rest.

For major characters who might return, they would remain the same structurally and cosmetically. Especially the humans, unless the the art director or design/writing deem it otherwise. We really want cameos to be recognized at a glance or familiar under scrutiny. That said, no matter how much we might try, due to the new head system and the art style, the lighting engine and camera work, they may not look 100% identical. Its unfortunate, but we hope they'll at least be recognizable. For the races that have been stylized, such as the dwarves and elves, the changes will be apparent but we hope to keep their cosmetic features the same (hair, eye color and tattoos)

We put a lot of effort into creating the star characters of DA:O, we love them as much as you all do. If they happen to get a makeover, it will get the same amount of care, love and attention to detail that went into them originally and we hope you'll agree with us that it was for the better.

people judge Isabela of one pic, personally I like this new art style, seems more assassins creed looking.  I plan on playing DA2 on Xbox 360 rather then pc 

[TJPags]

SonFrancisco wrote...

nijnij wrote...

Now I was a bit surprised myself when I saw the new Flemeth.........
........... apart from the clothes, she didn't change that much. She just looks, well... more powerful (slightly younger).

Kicking that brat out of the house really did wonders for her don't ya think? Toss on a change of clothes, a long bath, a full nights rest and a touch of makeup....its like she were only a hundred years old again! (I really don't know how old she is)

Generally speaking, I don't mind changes in art direction (I don't think the armors should necessarily look the same for example since they were a bit too generic in DA:O IMO) as long as they're not utter retcons.

We've redone the armors across the board to fit with the new art style (no more women with linebacker wide shoulders!) so they won't be wearing the same models they wore in the first. But they would probably wear something similar and identifiable if their look was signature. Like how the templar armors are different stylistically, but still look like templar armor.

To address some of the concerns about returning characters though, upgrading the heads was a huge goal among us character artists. We didn't choose to improve everyones look just because of the art style, but because we revamped the head system entirely. We've redone textures completley to be less stretchy and more detailed and worked very hard to make these brand new face meshes animate spectacularly better than before. But we are aware of the attachment value of particular characters from DA:O and the need for consistency, so we're being very careful about re-introducing familiar faces. 

Minor characters who didn't get the same polish in the first one but became breakout stars in the second, (Isabela) get overhauls to give them the uniqueness and appeal that their characters deserved. So they now stand out among the rest.

For major characters who might return, they would remain the same structurally and cosmetically. Especially the humans, unless the the art director or design/writing deem it otherwise. We really want cameos to be recognized at a glance or familiar under scrutiny. That said, no matter how much we might try, due to the new head system and the art style, the lighting engine and camera work, they may not look 100% identical. Its unfortunate, but we hope they'll at least be recognizable. For the races that have been stylized, such as the dwarves and elves, the changes will be apparent but we hope to keep their cosmetic features the same (hair, eye color and tattoos)

We put a lot of effort into creating the star characters of DA:O, we love them as much as you all do. If they happen to get a makeover, it will get the same amount of care, love and attention to detail that went into them originally and we hope you'll agree with us that it was for the better.

See, I appreciate this response, and thank you for it.

Lest anyone think I'm against progress or upgrades, I'm not.  I disagree with a major re-desgin of ANY returning character, minor or not.  After all, even if the character WAS minor, there was clearly something about them that made you want to return them, right?

That said, the dramatically altered Flemeth, and now the dramatically altered Isabela, certainly give people - like me - a cause for concern that other characters who may reappear will also be dramatically redesigned, and thus unrecognizeable.  That kind of defeats the purpose, IMO, of making them RETURNING characters, as opposed to new characters.

By all means, upgrade the system - art, head, lighting, physics, whatever you can - and utilize it with all characters, new AND returning.  But please, keep some basic continuity between what the character looked like in one game and the next.

[Brockololly]

SonFrancisco wrote...
For major characters who might return, they would remain the same structurally and cosmetically. Especially the humans, unless the the art director or design/writing deem it otherwise. We really want cameos to be recognized at a glance or familiar under scrutiny.

Well, sure, its the humans I'm most "worried" about with the new art style, as it seems they all have some sort of massive chin/jaw syndrome with Uncanny Valley faces and buggy eyes. Origins' system wasn't perfect, but after having played through it for dozens of hours, you got a feel for who was who based on their faces. And I'd hate to see some recognizable character from Origins come into DA2 and walk right by them because they've been "hot rod samurai'd" to the point of becoming visually a different character or at least a character no longer recognizable based on their appearance in Origins.

But thats the whole point in cameos, right?- To be able to quickly visually identify an old character?

SonFrancisco wrote...
That said, no matter how much we might try, due to the new head system and the art style, the lighting engine and camera work, they may not look 100% identical. Its unfortunate, but we hope they'll at least be recognizable. For the races that have been stylized, such as the dwarves and elves, the changes will be apparent but we hope to keep their cosmetic features the same (hair, eye color and tattoos)

Yeah, I'm just curious (and this isn't necessarily aimed at you) why if there were plans on bringing back certain characters, there wasn't some functionality built into the new head morph system to utilize some of the Origins faces, at least structurally speaking? I'd just hate to have some returning human character like an Alistair, Nathaniel Howe, or Morrigan show back up and only be able to recognize them based on their hair style or only after they open their mouth and you recognize the voice actor- I cannot emphasize how much that irritates me in games (or in movies when people get recast).

SonFrancisco wrote...
We put a lot of effort into creating the star characters of DA:O, we love them as much as you all do. If they happen to get a makeover, it will get the same amount of care, love and attention to detail that went into them originally and we hope you'll agree with us that it was for the better.

I don't mind if the existing characters get a makeover- by all means, change their hair their makeup, their wardrobe! But its when they get facial reconstructive surgery that it irks me.

I'll just say it again here:

To me, this is Morrigan:



Its not so much the hair or the clothing, but face wise, you have certain readily identifiable traits- like her lips, nose, narrow eyes, yellow eye color, dark hair, more of an oval face shape. that narrows towards the chin. And its the same for Alistair or any of the others. It wouldn't be enough to just plop on Morrigan's hair on some similar face. Thats why I can't stand most face morph mods:

To me, this is not Morrigan (no offense to the modders):





I generally can't stand face morph mods once I've played the game with the vanilla faces, but I will say that Adneate's Morrigan morph is subtle enough that it still retains the sort of identifiable features of vanilla Morrigan's face:


Its a subjective thing, but having an existing character come back and look different face wise is just a tremendous way to tear up any sense of continuity or "emotional engagement" I may have had lingering from Origins.


But thank you for the response- its nice to hear from the artists!

Modifié par Brockololly, 30 octobre 2010 - 09:10 .

[LexXxich]

And here I thought it was a thread about femslash.

[Brockololly]

To add, I'll just repost what I said in another thread about returning characters looking different. Its not the same as recasting a character in movies- what we're dealing with is taking an existing character and probably in the case of a major character like MOrrigan or Alistair changing their faces yet keeping their voice. And thats just bodysnatching levels of creepy.

Brockololly wrote...

In Exile wrote...
Could I  ask why? I mean, I understand that to you visual continuity is very  important - but why? In reality if someone I know had a different face,  it would freak me out. But video-games are an entirely different thing.  It's like a book - you can't even see the character or invent features  for them except in the most arbitrary mental sense, so don't you relate  to them based on whether or not you are told it's [x] character and that character behaves, well, consistent with the previously established character?

Well, except that unlike books, a video game is a visual medium. So unless  you're saying you're just rebooting everything, I expect a returning  character, especially a major returning character like Morrigan or  Alistair to facial structure wise look the same. If they change their  wardrobe or hair or whatever, thats fine. Its when they radically alter a character's face- like Sucker Punch tried to do with Cole for inFamous 2 before the backlash caused them to change it back- that it irks me.

I know they've said they're changing the art style and thus everything will  change, but it depends on how much. To use movies as an example, Batman  and the Joker have gone through many different looks, but thats usually  tied to a reimagining of their entire universe. Take the Joker:


Now both Nicholson and Ledger made great Jokers, but they both looked quite different, yet retained certain defining features visually. The issue  I'm having with visually retconning existing Origins characters for DA2  is that it would be like taking Jack's Joker and then making a sequel  where, without explanation he looked like Ledger's Joker while stil  keeping the lore of Burton's Batman world. That would bother me greatly. The variance in the look of the Joker or the difference between Adam  West's Batman versus Christian Bale's Batman is that the whole world was redesigned and any continuity between was nixed and everything started  over. Yet with DA2, its as if we go from Christian Bale's Batman both in look and voice:


but for the supposed sequel, they change the look of Batman to this:

while still retaining Bale's batman voice. That would be a major disconnect  that would absolutely rip me out of the movie/game/show. Its not even  like just recasting an actor for a role, as you're keeping the same  voice actor but giving their character a new face- that just seems  terribly off putting to me and weird.

The varying Joker or Batman looks work in the context of their entire reimaginings of their worlds, not only visually but thematically. Yet with DA2, they're seemingly  trying to keep the lore and characters and world the same, yet  completely reimagining everything visually. So it just creates a big  disconnect for any returning character.

It would be like taking  the aesthetic of BUrton's Batman world and keeping the same lore and  tone, yet for the sequel changing up that whole gothic look to Nolan's  more modern look- with no explanation as to the change visually since  its not even a reboot. Thats why I'm confused about DA2- its supposed to
be set in the same world as Origins, but now everything looks different when its not even a complete thematic reboot like the changes in visual style between Batman movies were or what you have often have when  comics change artists. And it just creates a disconnect.

If I've spent dozens of hours hearing Claudia Black's voice come out of the a face that looks like this:


I pick up on the little defining features of that face. And all told,  that face tied to Claudia Black's voice is what makes up the character  of Morrigan to me. You can pick up defining features of Morrigan's look, like her dark hair or her eye shadow or her overall face structure and  shape and thats what I associate with Morrigan in a visual sense- and in a video game, that look is just as important as her VO, and writing.  Taken all together thats what makes Morrigan, the character, to me. Its  all that put together that I'm interested in seeing how her story  continues.

Yet if you plop this face down (no offense to whoever modded this):


And tell me thats Morrigan simply because she has the same VO, writing and  dark hair, thats just not Morrigan to me after having played Origins for dozens of hours after having Morrigan look like in the first screen.  And it just creates a weird disconnect and kills any sense of continuity or emotional engagement I may have had lingering from the first game.

It all depends on how closely they match the face and whether, like the  Joker retaining key aspects of his look, they can identify key features  of a character's face without going crazy. About the only Morrigan face  morph I actually like is from Adneate because its subtle but retains the key unique things in vanilla Morrigan's facial structure:



All told, maybe its a subjective thing, but its something that bothers me in any game.[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/wizard.png[/smilie]

Modifié par Brockololly, 30 octobre 2010 - 08:53 .

[Francis Lacuna]

Brockololly wrote...

Yeah, I'm just curious (and this isn't necessarily aimed at you) why if there were plans on bringing back certain characters, there wasn't some functionality built into the new head morph system to utilize some of the Origins faces, at least structurally speaking? I'd just hate to have some returning human character like an Alistair, Nathaniel Howe, or Morrigan show back up and only be able to recognize them based on their hair style or only after they open their mouth and you recognize the voice actor.............

Fortunately we have our methods of approximating one to the other and getting it close, should we need to. That's what i was referring to, in part, about not being 100% identical but still sharing the structural and cosmetic similarities and being recognizable. However, putting all the points about why they might look different aside, when dealing with two models of varying poly counts and vertex numbers its a little more challenging to make one look like the other at a microscopic level. The topology and flow of the DA:O mesh is not as optimized for animation as the DA2 ones and therefore may not accurately wrap cleanly along the same lines, curves and shapes of eachother, particularly when speaking. There will always be subtle differences. 

As far as Alistair and Nathaniel Howe or Morrigan and other key npcs are concerned, should they ever re-appear in Dragon Age with the new head system, you might double-take, but my hope is you'll be pleasantly relieved (maybe even a little excited!). 

Modifié par SonFrancisco, 30 octobre 2010 - 09:30 .

[Bruddajakka]

And the fact is at the end of the day it's a completely different graphics engine, and some things just aren't going to translate.

[Wulfram]

What I have to say is that to me, the Darkspawn were effectively a major character in the game and they've been changed quite radically

[UberDuber]

BioWare better not, screw up Morrigan's face in the future. No stupid chins.

Also yeah, I don't like the Morrigan face morphs or any other characters for that matter.

[Fortlowe]

Brock, you make a good point and I'm glad you brought up comics because that's exactly where the but in my replay comes from. Some of my very favorite Batman books are the Black and White series. In them , many different aritist render stories by many different authors, but all of them are based on the Batman lore.
This is a remarkable example of what is really the status quo for all of comics. No character in all of comics has one artist completely and totally dedicated to that character alone, and the vice versa is also true. So whether we see Jim Lee's or Jeph Loeb's or really anyone's rendering of the Batman the lore associated with the character remains.
Asthetically, I like the new art direction better than the former. It's not that I didn't like the art in DA:O, but the new direction appeals to my sensibilities more readily. Your example of Morrigan is an excellent place to illustrate. For, you (and me by the way) the Morrigan that was rendered in the original game is more pleasing than any of the clones you've seen in the toolset. However, very likely, those same clones are improvments over the original in the eyes of their makers. Possibly in the eyes of many others that have seen them as well. 
The difficulty of what Bioware has to do in bringing old characters into a new art style won't be in how they look or whether they will be readily identifiable, but in how well that new rendering conveys the 'spirit' of the character. Not to undersell the character artist at all, but most of that conveying will have to be done through writing, animation, lighting, and camera angle.
Flemeth I think is an excellent example of what we can expect. Sure, I've made the odd lewd comment about the new 'hawt' Flemeth, but theres no denying it, when you look at her close up, it's the same old gal, just done up all cougar (or would it be dragon lady) style. So, I don't think there is a whole lot to worry about, concerning the old characters and thier differences between the old and new art directions.
What does intruige me is how they will look based on the different choices I made in DA:O. Do 'drunk' Allister and King Allister have differences in appearence beyond thier attire? Have Morrigan's features softened are hardened upon having a child? 

[Dave of Canada]

Bruddajakka wrote...

And the fact is at the end of the day it's a completely different graphics engine, and some things just aren't going to translate.

I thought it was the same engine?

[Brockololly]

SonFrancisco wrote...
Fortunately we have our methods of approximating one to the other and getting it close, should we need to. That's what i was referring to, in part, about not being 100% identical but still sharing the structural and cosmetic similarities and being recognizable. However, putting all the points about why they might look different aside, when dealing with two models of varying poly counts and vertex numbers its a little more challenging to make one look like the other at a microscopic level. The topology and flow of the DA:O mesh is not as optimized for animation as the DA2 ones and therefore may not accurately wrap cleanly along the same lines, curves and shapes of eachother, particularly when speaking. There will always be subtle differences.

Yeah, I guess, like I said earlier, so long as you've got the main sort of facial features the same or similar as they were in Origins, its all good. If the tech has improved and as such the faces improve in turn, thats welcome- its just, I'd like to avoid a Cole in inFamous 2 scenario where you guys end up changing the face for the hell of it, with no reason other than to change it.

But I guess we'll just have to wait and see how things turn out.

SonFrancisco wrote...
As far as Alistair and Nathaniel Howe or Morrigan and other key npcs are concerned, should they ever re-appear in Dragon Age with the new head system, you might double-take, but my hope is you'll be pleasantly relieved (maybe even a little excited!).

Yeah, I have no problem if you did a double take because- say maybe Drunken Alistair is a jaundiced scraggly bearded hobo or maybe Morrigan has her hair down- its the facial features that should be largely the same barring some subtle changes due to age maybe or some lore reasons for any differences.

Thanks for the response!

Fortlowe wrote...

This is a remarkable example of what is really the status quo for all  of comics. No character in all of comics has one artist completely and  totally dedicated to that character alone, and the vice versa is also  true. So whether we see Jim Lee's or Jeph Loeb's or really anyone's rendering of the Batman the lore associated with the character remains.

True enough, however, and maybe I'm wrong as I don't read a ton of comics, most of the time you have a change in artist, its with the start of a new series or its a one shot graphic novel or something. And generally, that change in art style is to better accomodate the theme of the story, like say Arkham Asylum's art style works well for the graphic novel while Jim Lee's works better for others.

But its just that even there, it seems those are more reimaginings or reinterpretations to fit the new story. And with DA2 its all supposed to be set in the same world and even in the same time period as we've roughly already played through in Origins. And then you've got the VO angle, where its different than a movie simply recasting or a comic changing the look- you'll presumably have the old character with a "new" face yet still talking with their "old" voice- that just gets into a weird, immersion braking experience to me. Its like if you saw an old friend that got a bunch of plastic surgery- maybe you can still recognize them but its just an odd experience and kind of distracting.

Fortlowe wrote...
For, you (and me by the way) the Morrigan that was  rendered in the original game is more pleasing than any of the clones  you've seen in the toolset. However, very likely, those same clones are  improvments over the original in the eyes of their makers. Possibly in  the eyes of many others that have seen them as well.

Oh sure- but the bottom line is that for most people that played Origins, they probably didn't mod it at all, especially since apparently DAO sold more on consoles anyway. So most people have vanilla Morrigan's face in mind when they think of "Morrigan."  Of course, if we get a toolset update for DA2 any odd looking faces could hopefully be fixed by modders anyway....

Fortlowe wrote...
The difficulty  of what Bioware has to do in bringing old characters into a new art  style won't be in how they look or whether they will be  readily identifiable, but in how well that new rendering conveys the  'spirit' of the character. Not to undersell the character artist at all, but most of that conveying will have to be done through writing, animation, lighting, and camera angle.

Well, I think having the face of an existing character look the same is an important part of that character overall. The spirt of the character is what you get via the dialogue and VO, I think, but its that quick visual identification thats important if you're bringing an existing character forward. Face wise you shouldn't be going "Wait? THAT's Morrigan?!" You should be going "Oh! Look there, its Morrigan!" All those things you mentioned: the writing, VO, animations and the face, play an important part in identifying a character. And I think for an existing character being brought forward, you need to retain that visual element too, otherwise to me at least, it'll just seem like some Bizarro World Morrigan or Alistair or Nathaniel and not the same one you interacted with in Origins.

Like, I thought Nolan and Ledger did an excellent job in keeping the "spirit" of the Joker in The Dark Knight while still making him visually identifiable based on previous iterations and yet unique to Nolan's Batman setting. The issue with Origins to DA2 is that its not a reboot, its supposed to be the same setting as Origins so it would stand to reason that any returning character's face should still look the same.

Fortlowe wrote...
What does intruige me is how they will look based on the different choices I made in DA:O. Do
'drunk' Allister and King Allister have differences in appearence beyond thier attire? Have Morrigan's features softened are hardened upon  having a child? 

Well, at least with Morrigan, if you played Witch Hunt, she already had the Old God Baby and looked pretty much the same.

Dave of Canada wrote...

Bruddajakka wrote...

And the fact is at the end of the day it's a completely different graphics  engine, and some things just aren't going to translate.

I thought it was the same engine?

Me too- I 'm pretty sure its still Eclipse, as they wouldn't ditch it after investing so much time into it for Origins. They're just giving it a fresh coat of paint and beefing up some of tech in it, I think.

Modifié par Brockololly, 30 octobre 2010 - 10:33 .

[tmp7704]

SonFrancisco wrote...

For the races that have been stylized, such as the dwarves and elves, the changes will be apparent but we hope to keep their cosmetic features the same (hair, eye color and tattoos)

Quite curious about what sort of changes was done to the appearances of dwarves and elves, actually. Do you know if there's any plans to have some dunno, blog post or article or something that'd give some insight into that? Or even just pictures of some characters, so far all we got to see were humans and qunari and Varric, oddly enough

[Saibh]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Bruddajakka wrote...

And the fact is at the end of the day it's a completely different graphics engine, and some things just aren't going to translate.

I thought it was the same engine?

Morphs are being built from the head up. ...Geddit?

[Dave of Canada]

Saibh wrote...
Morphs are being built from the head up. ...Geddit?

No.. Saibh... No.

Bad puns, bad!

[tmp7704]

Dave of Canada wrote...

I thought it was the same engine?

The engine may be the same on the basic level but they've supposedly modified the way lighting is calculated if nothing else, plus the head models which are used to generate character morphs are changed and given different textures.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Bruddajakka wrote...

And the fact is at the end of the day it's a completely different graphics engine, and some things just aren't going to translate.

I thought it was the same engine?

Its still Eclispe with some added tech, and apparently big chins are part of said tech. Jay Leno is said to be a consultant on the game.

[Dave of Canada]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Its still Eclispe with some added tech, and apparently big chins are part of said tech.

It's apparently just bad angles.

People said Varric had a big chin, we saw another picture and it was better with those complaints fading away in time.
Isabela is said to have a big chin, another screenshot shows her as normal.
Carver has a screenshot where he looks... decent.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 30 octobre 2010 - 10:57 .

[TJPags]

I'm not going to quote it, but Brocklolly's post with all the Morrigan pics is a good one for an example.

See, those are all recognizeably Morrigan.  Now, some look better than others, and we all may have our peferences, but those are all recognizable Morrigan's.  Now, I know they were all done with the same game engine and graphics engine, etc. (I'm not a big computer guy, so I don't know the right techinical terms here - I think you all know what I mean, even if I butcher that part) and that DA2 uses a new system.  So DA2 can't reproduce exactly what we saw in DAO or DAA.  I understand that.

What I'm asking is, instead of giving us what we describe as vanilla Morrigan (shown in those pics above) give us something like one of the morphed versions.  Slightly different, yet clearly recognizable as Morrigan.  Hell, take the two Jokers he posted - definitely different, yet by the outfit, etc, you can clearly tell it's Joker.  Hell, the Dark Knight version (the Heath Ledger one) is a bit more ratty, used, looks older - good way to perhaps portray drunken Alistair, you know?  Doesn't look exactly the same, looks quite different in a lot of ways, but still clearly recognizeable.

What was done to Isabela is, IMO, well beyond this.  The impression I get - and this may be wrong in fact, but it's my impression - is that you tossed out the DAO model, didn't try to make it the same, just started from scratch.  DAO Isabela and DA2 Isabela look NOTHING alike, IMO.  The only reason I know they're the same is because you tell me they are.

So please, don't do that to Nate, Morrigan, Alistair, etc . . . .and I may get over my distaste on the others.

[tmp7704]

Dave of Canada wrote...

It's apparently just bad angles.

I'd say no, not really. Some angles do make it more obvious than others (or rather, some angles work better at masking the effect than others) but the underlying issues are there no matter what angle is used.

edit: note how the "decent" screenshots tend to be the ones where character is quite farther from the camera. In Carver's case to the point where he's tiny, blurred speck in overall image.

Modifié par tmp7704, 30 octobre 2010 - 11:03 .

[soundchaser721]

TJPags wrote...

I'm not going to quote it, but Brocklolly's post with all the Morrigan pics is a good one for an example.

See, those are all recognizeably Morrigan.  Now, some look better than others, and we all may have our peferences, but those are all recognizable Morrigan's.  Now, I know they were all done with the same game engine and graphics engine, etc. (I'm not a big computer guy, so I don't know the right techinical terms here - I think you all know what I mean, even if I butcher that part) and that DA2 uses a new system.  So DA2 can't reproduce exactly what we saw in DAO or DAA.  I understand that.

What I'm asking is, instead of giving us what we describe as vanilla Morrigan (shown in those pics above) give us something like one of the morphed versions.  Slightly different, yet clearly recognizable as Morrigan.  Hell, take the two Jokers he posted - definitely different, yet by the outfit, etc, you can clearly tell it's Joker.  Hell, the Dark Knight version (the Heath Ledger one) is a bit more ratty, used, looks older - good way to perhaps portray drunken Alistair, you know?  Doesn't look exactly the same, looks quite different in a lot of ways, but still clearly recognizeable.

What was done to Isabela is, IMO, well beyond this.  The impression I get - and this may be wrong in fact, but it's my impression - is that you tossed out the DAO model, didn't try to make it the same, just started from scratch.  DAO Isabela and DA2 Isabela look NOTHING alike, IMO.  The only reason I know they're the same is because you tell me they are.

So please, don't do that to Nate, Morrigan, Alistair, etc . . . .and I may get over my distaste on the others.

Well, considering Isabela was a relatively minor character in Origins, the dev's could get away with redesigning her character. Shes going to have a larger role in DA2 which somewhat justifies them completely changing her appearance, but still- it somewhat loosens the connections to Origins as we're told to believe its the same Isabel when she looks vastly different. That being said, I don't think the dev's will do this to the major players of Origins. To a point, I don't think they can without incurring the wrath of the fanbase from Origins. So, I'm pretty sure they won't completely redesign morrigan, alistar etc. but they will no doubt have to change or tweak their appearance to fit the new engine, and I think it would be pretty interesting to see how they will look with the new engine.

[Aedan_Cousland]

TJPags wrote...

What was done to Isabela is, IMO, well beyond this.  The impression I get - and this may be wrong in fact, but it's my impression - is that you tossed out the DAO model, didn't try to make it the same, just started from scratch.  DAO Isabela and DA2 Isabela look NOTHING alike, IMO.  The only reason I know they're the same is because you tell me they are.

So please, don't do that to Nate, Morrigan, Alistair, etc . . . .and I may get over my distaste on the others.

This.

If DA2 Isabela had been shown wearing another outfit besides her pirate rags, and nothing had been said about her background, not a single person would have said, "Oooooh, look...it's Isabela from the Pearl!" The DA2 character looks nothing like the character in DA:O and the only reason we know it is Isabela, is because we are told it is.

[Dave of Canada]

tmp7704 wrote...

I'd say no, not really. Some angles do make it more obvious than others (or rather, some angles work better at masking the effect than others) but the underlying issues are there no matter what angle is used.

edit: note how the "decent" screenshots tend to be the ones where character is quite farther from the camera. In Carver's case to the point where he's tiny, blurred speck in overall image.

Lead to: "omfg look at that fat chin, **** he's ugly"

Though, once we got this it lead to: "he's not bad".




Same thing happened (though to a lesser extent) with Isabela and this screenshot:

[Aermas]

Everyone panic! Gorim is next! He will become a green haired long nosed ninja!

[tmp7704]

Dave of Canada wrote...


Lead to: "omfg look at that fat chin, **** he's ugly"

Though, once we got this it lead to: "he's not bad".

Well, the face has the same proportions in both these screenshots. To be perfectly honest, i'm not sure if the "he's not too bad" thing isn't result of people convincing themselves/tuning out the aspects which are out of whack because they're determined to like the character, and militant defense Varric enjoys in his thread.