176 réponses à ce sujet

[Dave of Canada]

tmp7704 wrote...

Well, the face has the same proportions in both these screenshots. To be perfectly honest, i'm not sure if the "he's not too bad" thing isn't result of people convincing themselves/tuning out the aspects which are out of whack because they're determined to like the character, and militant defense Varric enjoys in his thread.

Well, they were firmly saying that Varric reminded them of some pictures they'd post that were frankly just... ugh. A few of them changed their mind, I doubt they would've done otherwise because they had been that way for weeks / months.

[TJPags]

Frankly, that is one damn ugly dwarf. I don't know if his chin is too big or not - too many angles there . . but he's damn ugly.

[ejoslin]

TJPags wrote...

Frankly, that is one damn ugly dwarf. I don't know if his chin is too big or not - too many angles there . . but he's damn ugly.

His chin/jaw is completely out of proportion with the rest of his face in all of the pictures.  I think people just got used to it.

[tmp7704]

A quick followup -- there's also question of how much the angle skews our perception, too. For the sake of it, this is a quick tweak to put Varric in more typical position



Is this a "yuck" face? Don't know since it's up to personal tastes. But i think it'd be quite less controversial to say that is more of a caricature than typical human-like appearance. It does sport short nose, very large chin and massive jaw, to an extent that'd be pretty hard to find.

Modifié par tmp7704, 30 octobre 2010 - 11:49 .

[soundchaser721]

Huh, I wonder if after seeing these in-game pics people are still clamoring for Varric to be a LI. I'm learning towards no...

[Brockololly]

tmp7704 wrote...
Well, the face has the same proportions in both these screenshots. To be perfectly honest, i'm not sure if the "he's not too bad" thing isn't result of people convincing themselves/tuning out the aspects which are out of whack because they're determined to like the character, and militant defense Varric enjoys in his thread.

Right- the face is the second is just a bit better quality. But its got the same problem as I've seen in all the DA2 characters: they've all got a massively stong jawline/chin with what almost appears to be an underbite. And if  thats endemic to the DA2 morph system thats worrisome to me. The DA2 faces just seem "off" and in a game where you're in dialogue a good chunk of the time, it'll be very distracting if they all end up looking like caricatures.

As for Isabela's new look, I don't mind it necessarily since she was rather bland in Origins and was a super minor character. But face wise, again, its that her face in the DA2 shots just is out of whack proportions wise- its got nothing to do with beauty or ugliness- its just not a realistic looking face. And I don't know if thats part of the new art style, part of the new face morph system or if its a byproduct of the game still being worked on?

And thats part of my concern with existing characters showing up in DA2, is that they'll adopt these odd idiosyncracies like the buggy eyes, massive chin/jaws and combined with looking a bit different facial structure wise anyway, the net result won't seem like the return of an old character but some odd mish mash.

tmp7704 wrote...
Quite curious  about what sort of changes was done to the appearances of dwarves and  elves, actually. Do you know if there's any plans to have some dunno,  blog post or article or something that'd give some insight into that? Or even just pictures of some characters, so far all we got to see were  humans and qunari and Varric, oddly enough ../../../images/forum/emoticons/blushing.png

The only hint is from this concept art posted a while back:

http://bioware.files...da2_races.jpg  

Modifié par Brockololly, 30 octobre 2010 - 11:56 .

[Bruddajakka]

Well the only problem is we haven't seen any of the old "Star" character return yet. So for all we've seen is Isabela, and they decided to redesign her more or less completely due to her status upgrade, and on top of that they've since decided to go with a new art style on top of drastically altering how the races look more or less.



So as much as we want them to look exactly like the characters from DAO they aren't going to, and as much as we went it to be exactly the same game it's not going to be. Origins was in development for a long damn time.

[Saibh]

Bruddajakka wrote...

Well the only problem is we haven't seen any of the old "Star" character return yet. So for all we've seen is Isabela, and they decided to redesign her more or less completely due to her status upgrade, and on top of that they've since decided to go with a new art style on top of drastically altering how the races look more or less.

So as much as we want them to look exactly like the characters from DAO they aren't going to, and as much as we went it to be exactly the same game it's not going to be. Origins was in development for a long damn time.

And Flemeth--but she shapeshifts. I doubt any of them will be important enough to warrant a screencap of in the game. Morrigan isn't supposed to return for DA2 (or, at least, her voice actress isn't), and everyone else can be dead.

[Bruddajakka]

I don't know why but half the time I forgot Flemeth is even in the game for some reason...which is odd considering she appears to be the driving force beyond the entire plot of the game.

[tmp7704]

Just for comparison and to provide some reference -- the same Varric picture, with the nose length/lip placement tweaked slightly to give him more natural proportions.

Modifié par tmp7704, 31 octobre 2010 - 12:24 .

[soundchaser721]

Saibh wrote...

Bruddajakka wrote...

Well the only problem is we haven't seen any of the old "Star" character return yet. So for all we've seen is Isabela, and they decided to redesign her more or less completely due to her status upgrade, and on top of that they've since decided to go with a new art style on top of drastically altering how the races look more or less.

So as much as we want them to look exactly like the characters from DAO they aren't going to, and as much as we went it to be exactly the same game it's not going to be. Origins was in development for a long damn time.

And Flemeth--but she shapeshifts. I doubt any of them will be important enough to warrant a screencap of in the game. Morrigan isn't supposed to return for DA2 (or, at least, her voice actress isn't), and everyone else can be dead.

The fact that pretty much all of the companions from Origins are killable is just a damn shame. It effectively limits their appearances in future games to small cameos and just puts a halt on any multi-game character development- the obvious exception being morrigan who will no doubt be back in some way in a future DA title (should that happen). I think certain characters are definitely important enough to warrant a larger role in DA2 (alistair comes to mind) but because of the choices one can make his role might not be as big as it should. Couple that with the fact that we have a totally new protagonist, it just limits the overall connection to companions from Origins.

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

tmp7704 wrote...

Just for comparison and to provide some reference -- the same Varric picture, with the nose length/lip placement tweaked slightly to give him more natural proportions.

But... he's a dwarf. It's up to them to define what is "natural" for a dwarf.

[TJPags]

tmp7704 wrote...

Just for comparison and to provide some reference -- the same Varric picture, with the nose length/lip placement tweaked slightly to give him more natural proportions.

That nose has been broken a few times, I think . .  . .

[Bruddajakka]

Isn't that the badly tweaked version of it?

[Saibh]

Pseudocognition wrote...

But... he's a dwarf. It's up to them to define what is "natural" for a dwarf.

I agree. Varric looks, erm, exaggerated, but since he's a dwarf I won't say unnatural. For me, that's the problem with Isabela.

Bruddajakka wrote...

Isn't that the badly tweaked version of it?

This is the original. No tweaking, IIRC. Tmp simply altered the orientation and cropped it so it was upright.

Modifié par Saibh, 31 octobre 2010 - 12:42 .

[tmp7704]

Pseudocognition wrote...

But... he's a dwarf. It's up to them to define what is "natural" for a dwarf.

It would be certainly easier to accept if it was limited just to dwarves, but the problem --if i can call it that-- is it doesn't seem to be. It's also not something that DAO dwarves would display* and i don't really recall any complaints that facial features of the dwarves didn't look different enough from humans, so... dunno, if that's actually intended then it'd seem like bit pointless change from the first game. Especially if the end effect seems to make people go either "weird" or "eeeww".

edit: regarding the nose thing from the other post -- i didn't touch the orientation, just rotated the whole image. But maybe it seems skewed due to how the lighting is setup in the room, i don't think Varric has broken nose as part of the design.

*) the DAO dwarves did have facial features somewhat different from humans, but it was different in nature. Their heads were, in lack of better term, widened/rounded out.

Modifié par tmp7704, 31 octobre 2010 - 01:11 .

[Bruddajakka]

I'm actually curious to see some pictures of an elf using the new system as well as another Dwarf.

[Elrena]

soundchaser721 wrote...

Huh, I wonder if after seeing these in-game pics people are still clamoring for Varric to be a LI. I'm learning towards no...

*Raises the torch high*
Yes. Yes we are. That jawline is frankly sexy, his voice is too die for and his chest hair knows no bounds in its sheer awesomeness.

Also, I'm taking that early Dev comment about keeping key facial features-including tattoo's-the same as a sign that Zev is coming back, because let's face it, not that many important characters had tattoo's

[upsettingshorts]

Elrena wrote...
Also, I'm taking that early Dev comment about keeping key facial features-including tattoo's-the same as a sign that Zev is coming back, because let's face it, not that many important characters had tattoo's

Zevran is coming back!  Wow, I hope that means Hawke fill find his corpse with all his Crow friends on the road somewhere, that'd be awesome.

Seriously though, it would be.

[Bruddajakka]

Elrena wrote...

 not that many important characters had tattoo's

Quite a few Warden's did though.

[Elrena]

Bruddajakka wrote...

Elrena wrote...

 not that many important characters had tattoo's

Quite a few Warden's did though.

Was that a reference to Awakening? Cause' I don't have that yet

[Khayness]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Yeah, sorry, I've spent too many years of my youth watching James Bond movies to give even the slightest bit of a damn that characters who look and act different are the same because we're told they're the same.  Roger Moore and Timothy Dalton could hardly have been different looking or approached the character more differently, but guess what, they're both James Bond.  So where does that leave us?  Picking which one we like better, not whining about the fact there's a change.

James Bond is a codename, they are all different people!

[tmp7704]

Elrena wrote...

Also, I'm taking that early Dev comment about keeping key facial features-including tattoo's-the same as a sign that Zev is coming back, because let's face it, not that many important characters had tattoo's

Every single* dalish elf and casteless dwarf has facial tattoo so i wouldn't read too much into it. They'd have to retcon large parts of their lore if that was changed.

*) ok, with few exceptions but well, these are few.

Modifié par tmp7704, 31 octobre 2010 - 01:34 .

[nijnij]

SonFrancisco wrote...

nijnij wrote...

Now I was a bit surprised myself when I saw the new Flemeth.........
........... apart from the clothes, she didn't change that much. She just looks, well... more powerful (slightly younger).

Kicking that brat out of the house really did wonders for her don't ya think? Toss on a change of clothes, a long bath, a full nights rest and a touch of makeup....its like she were only a hundred years old again! (I really don't know how old she is)

Generally speaking, I don't mind changes in art direction (I don't think the armors should necessarily look the same for example since they were a bit too generic in DA:O IMO) as long as they're not utter retcons.

We've redone the armors across the board to fit with the new art style (no more women with linebacker wide shoulders!) so they won't be wearing the same models they wore in the first. But they would probably wear something similar and identifiable if their look was signature. Like how the templar armors are different stylistically, but still look like templar armor.

To address some of the concerns about returning characters though, upgrading the heads was a huge goal among us character artists. We didn't choose to improve everyones look just because of the art style, but because we revamped the head system entirely. We've redone textures completley to be less stretchy and more detailed and worked very hard to make these brand new face meshes animate spectacularly better than before. But we are aware of the attachment value of particular characters from DA:O and the need for consistency, so we're being very careful about re-introducing familiar faces. 

Minor characters who didn't get the same polish in the first one but became breakout stars in the second, (Isabela) get overhauls to give them the uniqueness and appeal that their characters deserved. So they now stand out among the rest.

For major characters who might return, they would remain the same structurally and cosmetically. Especially the humans, unless the the art director or design/writing deem it otherwise. We really want cameos to be recognized at a glance or familiar under scrutiny. That said, no matter how much we might try, due to the new head system and the art style, the lighting engine and camera work, they may not look 100% identical. Its unfortunate, but we hope they'll at least be recognizable. For the races that have been stylized, such as the dwarves and elves, the changes will be apparent but we hope to keep their cosmetic features the same (hair, eye color and tattoos)

We put a lot of effort into creating the star characters of DA:O, we love them as much as you all do. If they happen to get a makeover, it will get the same amount of care, love and attention to detail that went into them originally and we hope you'll agree with us that it was for the better.

Thanks for that little behind-the-scenes description. Sounds like you guys are doing a great job !

[upsettingshorts]

Khayness wrote...

James Bond is a codename, they are all different people!

Ha!  M and Q are codenames, Bond's a dude.  Anyway, there is some minor continuity even in Bond. 

Roger Moore references James Bond's dead wife twice, a wife who Bond met and died during George Lazenby's On Her Majesty's Secret Service.