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[Sir JK]

tmp7704 wrote...
I was mostly concerned with trying to find optimal placement to preserve overall scale of the character as well as the head size -- that extends also to the shoulders, arms and such. As a result, because the characters are shot at different angles the eyes don't line up, you're correct. That's because Isabela is "looking higher" than her human counterpart, as result of that eforementioned different camera placement.

For the sake of argument yes, it's possible to pull the part of picture that shows Isabela a few pixels down so their eyes line up. However since as you agreed this causes the bottom of her head land even further down i'm not sure if it makes any practical difference -- i don't think the effect can be dismissed as just a result of different camera angle, because different angle doesn't prevent us from taking note where the chin would end in a shot taken straight-on.

The problem is that by adjusting the picture according to shoulders, chin and hair you risk skewering the perspectibe due to stance and angle. If that juxtaposition is to work then they must have the same stance and the picture taken form the same perspective. Which they aren't. The faults you see are exaggerated due to the false similarity of the pictures.
That's why the eyes are the basepoint. The eyes are always in the middle of the face. The volume of the hair is variable, and chins (shape and size) depend from person to person (and is also heavily affected by angle). But the eyes are always in the middle. The only reliable landmark. If you adjust that you'll notice that Isabela's and Penelope's nose are the same size.

I consider the noses too small because if you take a typical face and draw a line from the eye level to the bottom of the head, then the point about right in the middle of his line determines placement of the area above the upper lip, with the bottom edge of the nose and the lip itself being at comparable distances on either side of this point.

This isn't the case with DA2 characters whose noses can be noticeably shorter (the mid point can be closer towards the upper lip) and i don't think the chin size can be blamed here, because this is more dependant on the overall size of the head, not on how large part of that head is taken by the chin.

That's actually variable between persons. That's not the case with my face for instance. The midpoint of a line between eyes and the chin ends up straight over my upper lip (then again, I have an overbite). But I'm curious... from where on the picture are you drawing that line? Could you mark it somehow? Because when I try it adds up to be close enough. Maybe we're not measuring from the same point?

But Carver's head in that shot is like, 30 pixels large and heavily affected by camera's depth of field. The problems with his proportions become less pronounced at such range, just like it happens with anyone else. But if you enlarge that part of image then it becomes rather obvious it's the same Carver as seen on the other, close-up pictures.

Hmm... you might be right. Can't process images properly on this computer so I cannot determine.

[tmp7704]

Sir JK wrote...

But the eyes are always in the middle. The only reliable landmark. If you adjust that you'll notice that Isabela's and Penelope's nose are the same size.

Yes, but that's a problem -- Penelope Cruz happens to have pretty large nose 1 2 (and i think it works great for her so let's not turn it into "lolol he said Penelope Cruz is ugly" strawman) ... while i'm fairly sure this isn't something that can be said say about Isabela, so when you think of it, them both winding up with that particular feature matching indicates something is wrong in the way the pictures are composed.

This may be caused by Isabela's head being larger than it should be -- when you think of it, if their heads were the same size then Isabela's chin should wind up higher, to account for difference between Penelope's mouth being half-open. But that in turn gives situation where number of other features becomes more misaligned that i'm willing to accept -- like the upper part of the skull and the width of the eyes/head in general, and i doubt anyone would suggest that Isabela's face should become even wider it already is. So overall, a conundrum.

That's actually variable between persons. That's not the case with my face for instance. The midpoint of a line between eyes and the chin ends up straight over my upper lip (then again, I have an overbite). But I'm curious... from where on the picture are you drawing that line? Could you mark it somehow? Because when I try it adds up to be close enough. Maybe we're not measuring from the same point?

I start the line roughly at the point where the nose begins, more or less where the brows would meet.

And aye, this isn't universal but it's useful rule of thumb that helps to determine whether that feature is near average or strays from it. Penelope Cruz happens to be another such example for this matter, in the opposite direction... and her nose does stand out as result of it. It's possible your own nose is smaller than it's typical.

It's not exact science, either -- especially with images of low resolution, it can easily result off by a few pixels and when the image is small to begin with, the results get skewed. Isabela can actually be case of this since most of images of her we have available aren't very large. Then to muddle it even more, you can get things like that picture of Christina Ricci posted earlier -- her proportions when it comes to discussed features are actually very close to these of Isabela. But she doesn't feel "off" with them. So why Isabela (and other DA2 characters) trigger that for me, and why shifting the lips/nose just tiny bit lower does a lot to alleviate that sensation? Heck if i know.