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Mass Effect 2 and RPG Genre


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#101
kalle90

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Lumikki wrote...

kalle90 wrote...

@Lumikki: I don't understand the point.

My point was that you seem to look how different developers have executed they inventory system and then compare them. You say ME1 would been better if it would have done better, like some other games had. How ever, You never say ME2 inventory could have been better if it would have done better. Because there isn't really others to compare.

Because in my opinion ME2 "inventory" system fits better science fiction based theme like Shepard is part in Mass Effect world. Think about the differences. You know the research, not looting every trash and so on. My point is that ME2 system actually make sense, but the execution was way too limited and simplifyed.


Ok

They could achieve the same things by taking either one as the starting point, I merely mean I preferred what ME1 had so tweaking it seems like the easier way. My wishlist earlier was a bit of both and more actually

- Keep the weapon/armor locker on Normandy (ME2), but make it act like an actual inventory (ME1)
- Keep the item scanning (ME2), but make us pay and build the items on Normandy (ME1 style management)
- Make us able to fill the armor weapon slots how we want
- Make us able to pick weapons from ground (atleast the heavy weapons so game doesn't auto-choose)

Because random loot is an important thing (atleast to some), the scannable items should be somehow randomized.

#102
aeetos21

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The irony is that ME2 won RPG of the year at the Golden Joysticks and stands a good chance of winning it at the VGAs. Anyway I like how BW made it a lot more streamlined. One thing I couldn't stand in ME1 was the weapon system and how an N7 Marine (the equivalent to a Delta Force operative or SAS trooper or GSG9 or what have you) essentially can't fire a pistol accurately let alone an AR or shotty. Hell I took my kid sister to the range and had her shooting targets at 50 yards with slugs by the end of the day and some of the ME1 Shepards couldn't even do that. Talk about roleplaying... its one thing to learn how to fight with a sword or bow and arrow, quite another to aim and pull a trigger. Same goes for armor, Shepard is a Marine: "Every marine a rifleman," "One a marine always a marine," etc... Whether a sentinel or an adept or whatever he/she is a marine not some wizard or mage who needs to were light armor into combat (same goes for some of the squaddies). As for the skills...my main is a VG and there are so many different builds for that class. Right now I'm using sqad warp, squad cryo, heavy charge, champion, and a combination between pull and SW. I could just as easily use inferno rounds, squad cryo, maybe one point in sw, champion, heavy or area charge, and an area reave. The same can be said for all classes. And when you take into consideration the different armors and weapons (not to mention the specialized weapons) available? If you are having trouble seeing this as an RPG then I don't know what to tell you. Did it lose some RPG elements from ME1? Of course but for the better shooter dynamics and advanced Ai I only see it as a plus. In short its BW's game and they will make it how they will want to make it.

#103
AdmiralCheez

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I actually liked the new level-up system. It was easier to manage and required a bit more thought as to how you wanted to spend your points. As for the inventory, I'd say just give us the ability to make our squaddies wear legit armor (I'm looking at you, Jack) and I'll be happy.



What we need is to strike a balance between customization and ease of use. I'd appreciate a few more visible statistics and choice when it comes to weapons and armor, but do I seriously have to stop every half hour and omnigel all the damn Kesslers?

#104
Pepper4

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Loot won't be missed, but an Inventory is a MUST for ME3.

#105
AdamNW

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Why the hell would a completionist get every possible resource? The amount is infinite, isn't it?

#106
Herc421

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I agree, bring back the RPG elements from Mass Effect 1.  I'm not saying bring back that magical back pack that lets you carry 800 items with you everywhere.  I really liked how you had to go to different parts of your ship in Mass Effect 2 to change out equipment and junk.  But bring back more of a variety of each type of item.  I liked changing my Omni-tool and deciding whether I wanted a assault rifle that was more powerful or more accurate.  Also, make the gameplay more stats based again.  If I level up really high the game should become easier at certain spots.  Another way of putting it:  There is no real excitement in leveling up if the game has the exact same difficulty from beginning to end.

#107
Googlesaurus

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AdamNW wrote...

Why the hell would a completionist get every possible resource? The amount is infinite, isn't it?


Far from it. 

Mass Effect 2 had very simplified versions of the gameplay features in Mass Effect 1. They weren't taken out, but they were streamlined so every upgrade was essentially beneficial and only restrained by whether you could afford it. When people say the inventory system in ME2 is worse than ME1's, they mean it gives you less options to customize a character to a specific playstyle. That doesn't make it worse by default, but I see why they would be upset. 

Modifié par Googlesaurus, 02 novembre 2010 - 12:56 .


#108
SithLordExarKun

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Oblarg wrote...

SithLordExarKun wrote...

Oblarg wrote...

Alex_SM wrote...

Best answer here, and everyone seems to ignore it. 

"Original" RPGs where not about inventory, skills or clothing, they where about taking the role of a character and getting immerse into a different reality (and PnP RPGs are still about that). ME2 nowadays (as a Computer RPG) is the pinacle of that concept.


Not even close.  I'd say ME1 did a better job of it, and even that isn't my favorite recent CRPG.

To famously quote the hypocrite(thats right, its you): Well thats your opinion.


Indeed it is.

So is the statement that "ME2 is the pinnacle of the concept of RPG," which was precisely the point of my post.

Glad we've sorted that out.

So don't pass off your statements as universal facts. Glad we've got that sorted out. 

But i got to admit, you're cute though trying to tell someone that his statements are opinion while trying to pass off yours as absolute facts.

#109
ScooterPie88

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Oblarg wrote...

ScooterPie88 wrote...

Oblarg wrote...

ScooterPie88 wrote...
I don't like planet scanning any more than the next guy but it was still better than driving around in the Mako looking for minerals for hours on end just to complete the side quest. 


You see, this is an invalid comparison - the Mako resource gathering was little more than a minor sidequest for completionists.  The planet scanning was the main method of gear progression in the game.  Tell me, do you enjoy planet scanning more than you enjoyed having an inventory?  I certainly don't, and I cant imagine why anyone else would.


No it's a perfectly valid comparison.  Both have to be done to be a completionist or they are completely optional.  No one says you have to scan planets.  You can easily skip it entirely.  Just don't be surprised when the game is harder when you don't.  Also while I dislike planet scanning and ME1's inventory system I definately find planet scanning to be the lesser of the two evils.


No, it's not - gear progression is a major part of the game.  Minor sidequests are not.  The game is not "harder" if you skip the resource gathering in ME.  The two are in no way analagous, and comparing them simply shows ignorance of the game mechanics.

And if you truly prefer planet scanning for generic +10% damage upgrades over an inventory system, I don't think we have enough in common to meaningfully discuss the game.


I stated that ME2 was slightly more difficult if you do not do planet scanning.  How is that innaccurate?  If you do no plant scanning you get no upgrades.  Without upgrades weapons and armor are less effective.  Not to mention if you don't scan and do upgrades people will get killed on the suicide mission.  Also you can purchase additional armor components regardless of planet scanning.  ME2 has an inventory it is just not the traditional on your person, carry hundreds of the same thing one.  You have a space on the ship where different weapons are kept and can be selected.  The same is true for armor components and different armor suits.  Just because you aren't able to carry around hundreds of worthless items on your person does not mean that the game lacks an inventory.  Do try to apply more critical thinking to your arguements rather than risk appearing the fool.

#110
Oblarg

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ScooterPie88 wrote...

I stated that ME2 was slightly more difficult if you do not do planet scanning.  How is that innaccurate?  If you do no plant scanning you get no upgrades.  Without upgrades weapons and armor are less effective.  Not to mention if you don't scan and do upgrades people will get killed on the suicide mission.  Also you can purchase additional armor components regardless of planet scanning.  ME2 has an inventory it is just not the traditional on your person, carry hundreds of the same thing one.  You have a space on the ship where different weapons are kept and can be selected.  The same is true for armor components and different armor suits.  Just because you aren't able to carry around hundreds of worthless items on your person does not mean that the game lacks an inventory.  Do try to apply more critical thinking to your arguements rather than risk appearing the fool.


Yes, ME2 is more difficult if you do not scan planets, and I didn't dispute that, because that's precisely the point - resource gathering in ME1 is a minor sidequest, while resource gathering in ME2 is a major component of the game, as it's a very large part of the gear progression and the end-game reactivity.  Thus, comparing ME1 resource gathering with the mako to ME2 planet scanning is complete nonsense.

SithLordExarKun wrote...

Oblarg wrote...

SithLordExarKun wrote...

Oblarg wrote...

Alex_SM wrote...

Best answer here, and everyone seems to ignore it. 

"Original"
RPGs where not about inventory, skills or clothing, they where about
taking the role of a character and getting immerse into a different
reality (and PnP RPGs are still about that). ME2 nowadays (as a Computer RPG) is the pinacle of that concept.


Not even close.  I'd say ME1 did a better job of it, and even that isn't my favorite recent CRPG.

To famously quote the hypocrite(thats right, its you): Well thats your opinion.


Indeed it is.

So is the statement that "ME2 is the pinnacle of the concept of RPG," which was precisely the point of my post.

Glad we've sorted that out.

So don't pass off your statements as universal facts. Glad we've got that sorted out. 

But
i got to admit, you're cute though trying to tell someone that his
statements are opinion while trying to pass off yours as absolute facts.


You're even more cute, because you completely missed the point of the post for the sake of nitpicking.

Modifié par Oblarg, 02 novembre 2010 - 02:50 .


#111
ScooterPie88

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Oblarg wrote...

ScooterPie88 wrote...

I stated that ME2 was slightly more difficult if you do not do planet scanning.  How is that innaccurate?  If you do no plant scanning you get no upgrades.  Without upgrades weapons and armor are less effective.  Not to mention if you don't scan and do upgrades people will get killed on the suicide mission.  Also you can purchase additional armor components regardless of planet scanning.  ME2 has an inventory it is just not the traditional on your person, carry hundreds of the same thing one.  You have a space on the ship where different weapons are kept and can be selected.  The same is true for armor components and different armor suits.  Just because you aren't able to carry around hundreds of worthless items on your person does not mean that the game lacks an inventory.  Do try to apply more critical thinking to your arguements rather than risk appearing the fool.


Yes, ME2 is more difficult if you do not scan planets, and I didn't dispute that, because that's precisely the point - resource gathering in ME1 is a minor sidequest, while resource gathering in ME2 is a major component of the game, as it's a very large part of the gear progression and the end-game reactivity.  Thus, comparing ME1 resource gathering with the mako to ME2 planet scanning is complete nonsense.

SithLordExarKun wrote...

Oblarg wrote...

SithLordExarKun wrote...

Oblarg wrote...

Alex_SM wrote...

Best answer here, and everyone seems to ignore it. 

"Original"
RPGs where not about inventory, skills or clothing, they where about
taking the role of a character and getting immerse into a different
reality (and PnP RPGs are still about that). ME2 nowadays (as a Computer RPG) is the pinacle of that concept.


Not even close.  I'd say ME1 did a better job of it, and even that isn't my favorite recent CRPG.

To famously quote the hypocrite(thats right, its you): Well thats your opinion.


Indeed it is.

So is the statement that "ME2 is the pinnacle of the concept of RPG," which was precisely the point of my post.

Glad we've sorted that out.

So don't pass off your statements as universal facts. Glad we've got that sorted out. 

But
i got to admit, you're cute though trying to tell someone that his
statements are opinion while trying to pass off yours as absolute facts.


You're even more cute, because you completely missed the point of the post for the sake of nitpicking.


I suppose I should follow the rule of never argue with an idiot; they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

#112
Oblarg

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ScooterPie88 wrote...
I suppose I should follow the rule of never argue with an idiot; they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.


Superb retort there, bro.  Keep up the great posting!

Modifié par Oblarg, 02 novembre 2010 - 02:59 .


#113
ScooterPie88

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Oblarg wrote...

ScooterPie88 wrote...
I suppose I should follow the rule of never argue with an idiot; they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.


Superb retort there, bro.  Keep up the great posting!


Good we finally agree on something.  Don't worry I'm not going anywhere.  My love for you is too strong. (Mr. New Vegas)

#114
Christmas Ape

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Woooooo! Internet slap fight!

#115
SithLordExarKun

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Oblarg wrote...

ScooterPie88 wrote...

I stated that ME2 was slightly more difficult if you do not do planet scanning.  How is that innaccurate?  If you do no plant scanning you get no upgrades.  Without upgrades weapons and armor are less effective.  Not to mention if you don't scan and do upgrades people will get killed on the suicide mission.  Also you can purchase additional armor components regardless of planet scanning.  ME2 has an inventory it is just not the traditional on your person, carry hundreds of the same thing one.  You have a space on the ship where different weapons are kept and can be selected.  The same is true for armor components and different armor suits.  Just because you aren't able to carry around hundreds of worthless items on your person does not mean that the game lacks an inventory.  Do try to apply more critical thinking to your arguements rather than risk appearing the fool.


Yes, ME2 is more difficult if you do not scan planets, and I didn't dispute that, because that's precisely the point - resource gathering in ME1 is a minor sidequest, while resource gathering in ME2 is a major component of the game, as it's a very large part of the gear progression and the end-game reactivity.  Thus, comparing ME1 resource gathering with the mako to ME2 planet scanning is complete nonsense.

SithLordExarKun wrote...

Oblarg wrote...

SithLordExarKun wrote...

Oblarg wrote...

Alex_SM wrote...

Best answer here, and everyone seems to ignore it. 

"Original"
RPGs where not about inventory, skills or clothing, they where about
taking the role of a character and getting immerse into a different
reality (and PnP RPGs are still about that). ME2 nowadays (as a Computer RPG) is the pinacle of that concept.


Not even close.  I'd say ME1 did a better job of it, and even that isn't my favorite recent CRPG.

To famously quote the hypocrite(thats right, its you): Well thats your opinion.


Indeed it is.

So is the statement that "ME2 is the pinnacle of the concept of RPG," which was precisely the point of my post.

Glad we've sorted that out.

So don't pass off your statements as universal facts. Glad we've got that sorted out. 

But
i got to admit, you're cute though trying to tell someone that his
statements are opinion while trying to pass off yours as absolute facts.


You're even more cute, because you completely missed the point of the post for the sake of nitpicking.

The very same nitpicking demonstrated by you? Adorable.

#116
SithLordExarKun

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Modifié par SithLordExarKun, 02 novembre 2010 - 06:09 .


#117
MrDizazta

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aeetos21 wrote...

The irony is that ME2 won RPG of the year at the Golden Joysticks and stands a good chance of winning it at the VGAs. Anyway I like how BW made it a lot more streamlined. One thing I couldn't stand in ME1 was the weapon system and how an N7 Marine (the equivalent to a Delta Force operative or SAS trooper or GSG9 or what have you) essentially can't fire a pistol accurately let alone an AR or shotty. Hell I took my kid sister to the range and had her shooting targets at 50 yards with slugs by the end of the day and some of the ME1 Shepards couldn't even do that. Talk about roleplaying... its one thing to learn how to fight with a sword or bow and arrow, quite another to aim and pull a trigger. Same goes for armor, Shepard is a Marine: "Every marine a rifleman," "One a marine always a marine," etc... Whether a sentinel or an adept or whatever he/she is a marine not some wizard or mage who needs to were light armor into combat (same goes for some of the squaddies). As for the skills...my main is a VG and there are so many different builds for that class. Right now I'm using sqad warp, squad cryo, heavy charge, champion, and a combination between pull and SW. I could just as easily use inferno rounds, squad cryo, maybe one point in sw, champion, heavy or area charge, and an area reave. The same can be said for all classes. And when you take into consideration the different armors and weapons (not to mention the specialized weapons) available? If you are having trouble seeing this as an RPG then I don't know what to tell you. Did it lose some RPG elements from ME1? Of course but for the better shooter dynamics and advanced Ai I only see it as a plus. In short its BW's game and they will make it how they will want to make it.

QFT

#118
Trix-Rabbit

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Funny how you guys classify things as an rpg, lets put things in perspective.
Ill start off by saying, lets remove one thing from the equation right now. 

Story, Most all games have a story these days, some even have good ones that arent rpgs like Metro2033, HL2 and its episodes, and some others. The Conversation wheel and cinematic talk scenes are more or less unique to Bioware. So you cant call story an exclusive part of the RPG genre anymore(although at one point it certainly was.)

Now, Ammo isnt the exclusive item that it used to be to FPS games either, with games now like Fallout and DAO using it. Although i have to say, most other games ammo systems make a hell of a alot more sense(WTF thermal clips? one size fits all but i dont have one big thermal clip reserve?)

Weapon Loadouts in general are Common to FPS games, (usually realistic CS style games at that.) Those bins all over btw seemed fairly uselss to me, never used them once, i just picked my fav loadout of the most powerful weapons and rolled on!

To say that the inventory was streamlined and not removed is a lie, there is no inventory.  There is no inventory tab. This is fact. There is a weapon loadout screen, you cannot access an inventory and change weapons or armor out that way, let alone mod anything.  Granted after a while in ME1 haveing to clear out your inventory of crap got irratating after a while even tho auto loot was very nice.  Armor was only changable at your ship. the pieces and parts were extremely limited. and most all the other suits were dlc.  (and as a matter of opinion, i believe much of the armor in me1 was better looking, but the current look still has its merits if it were expanded on)

the Combat system is that of a FPS game. This should be clear, as most realistic shooters function for combat in a similar way, Usually in the first person instead of third, although some fps games alow  you to play third person aswell.(usually this is considered cheating in an fps, ME2 doesnt have multiplayer so no need to worry about all that)
 
One could argue that a combat system is the basis for what kind of game your playing alone. Such as the difference between a Standard RPG re:Chronotrigger, older final fantasy games and And an Action RPG (some of which lack any real kind of inventory) re: Zelda, some newer Final Fantasy games(Not entirely sure, aside from the psp one havent touched the sieries since 7)

The Karma Meter(renegade paragon) is a standard part of many a RPG game esp newer ones and some older d&d type games you could select your alignment outright and be stuck with it.

The skill point and Leveling system is a classic part RPGs and is starting to appear in FPS games. RE:COD4

Exploration, this was alot of fun in ME1 even the mako on heightmaps with prefabs all over, and without going to much into it, since its a whole other discussion altogether. From a development standpoint you either get ugly rock climbing and prefabs or lush beautiful scenes(and often small), Why? because that stuff costs money and time to make. Your simply never going to get large planet exploration thats full of lush beautiful scenes and tons of stuff to do. It would cost too much to put into the game(But if we did get it, Bioware would be breaking massive ground in gaming industry) Still both games have it and it is a rpg element. Too bad it was tied to the crap planet scanning, which i think its clear most folks didnt like). And im more than certain that a change in the way exploration is handled would be beneficial to the game. Either by making fewer planet landing zones that were much much larger with more stuff to do. or Adding more to them all and decreasing the graphics(unlikely).

Linear zones are a grey area really. many rpg have added linear zones and most FPS games are preatty much nothing but. Id like to also point out that certain zones were complete garbage due to their linear nature, RE:Zakera Ward. although somehow i imagine it might actually be like that if it were real life. Still yet zones like the Presidium and the wards in ME1 were choc full of quests and non linear zones, Are what many a rpg addict likely longs for(like myself). Omega seems to come preatty close to capturing this, if only it was a little bigger with some more sidequests.

Id also like to point out and the end here of this very long post, That much of the things that people complain about being bad in this game are due to development cycle time constraints(like the lack of weapons, and armor upgrade parts) and crappy planet sidequests(which were done in devs spare time). Mass effect was suppossed to be an fps/rpg hybrid and even in ME2 it still is, however its a little more FPS now than RPG and it seems preatty clear some folks would like a little more RPG in their game, and or felt a lil blindsided by the way ME2 changed.

I personally felt like ME2 Improved alot on many things over ME1(Cinematics/dialogue/graphics) however i personlly felt that some other things took a step back (Exploration in some ways/Zone design/Side quests/Choices/Squad Recruitment/Level transition)

And through it all id still rate ME2 as one of the best games of all time, i hope if you read nothing at all, at least read this last line, its the best one.

#119
Christmas Ape

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But it's not an FPS - do you even know what that stands for? - and an Inventory tab isn't required to make something an inventory.



Did you want to take a moment to collect your thoughts?

#120
Lukertin

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I think the changes made in ME2 were acceptable. Just looking at two of the things that have been common to all RPGs, which were given complete facelifts in ME2:

1) Attribute/Skill point allocation. I think people liked having to choose between investing points in a new skill v. improving an old one v. just making the character better all around. ME2 took a axe to this and cut out a lot of the superfluous stuff.
My only complaint is that they went overboard in this regard, but overall I think it's a good step in the right direction that newer RPGs should take. Take a generic RPG for example, where you have a mage character. You level up, and get to choose which attributes to increase...but is there really a point in doing this? You're obviously going to pick the ones that increase your mana/spellpower/whatever, so what is really the purpose behind this mechanic?  (besides meeting item requirements for equiping, but that's another issue entirely, and can addressed in different ways)

Similarly, there are so many games out there that have spells/abilities nobody ever uses or invests in. Cutting down the number of these abilities is, overall, a good idea. When people buy a game, they want to pop the cd in and start playing, not spend 30 minutes reading the description for things and trying to decide what they want to get, how to get it, etc., and then kick themselves 5 hours into the game for doing the wrong thing because they understandibly don't understand how the game works before they play it, and having a first character which is unplayable.

2. Inventory Management -- The system used with permanent upgrades was great, now that I think about it. My only complaint is that you would get a weapon, or armor, and stick with the same one for the entire game. There was little point in changing or switching the weapons you had (not to mention you rarely even had the opportunity to change the weapons equipped). One of the things common to a lot of RPGs, I think, is that you can choose different equipment for different scenarios. This option was severely lacking in ME2, resulting in a more FPS-type experience at the expense of an RPG-feeling. There wasn't a situation in ME2 where you thought "oh, I'm facing this type of enemy, I should equip this rifle instead of what I'm currently using". Even in ME1 you at least had the option of switching weapon mods to transition from blasting geth to blasting organics.  In ME2 it turned into "I need to bring this character in my party because s/he has abilities that counter X".  It's great that the game sort of forced you to play with all the different characters, but I personally like to do playthroughs with the same groups of different NPCs (im sure i'm not alone in this)

To go into an example of another game, The Witcher, I disappointed to learn how you were basically stuck with the same armor for huge portions of the game--it makes you feel that you aren't playing towards anything (the story is there but there is a satisfaction of knowing that after you complete xyz quest and defeat difficult abc boss, you get cool new item)-- then had the choice near the end to upgrade your armor...but not in line necessarily with what you wanted your armor to be, but in line with your gameplay choices were. That isn't such a great idea. I was initially also turned off at the weapon progression in that game but I eventually warmed to it, as it makes the system less confusing and more manageable, since there were few weapons you could get but you could modify your core ones. I would characterize the weapon progression system in that game to be inbetween what ME1 and ME2's were, and I think it's actually superior to either game's.

Now there's probably a plethora of gameplay data companies like Bioware have collected to study how players actually do inventory management, and I would surmise a guess that this data shows the overwhelming majority of players get a new item, equip it, wait until something better comes along and then they sell their old item and equip the new one. I doubt the majority of players do any sort of advanced inventory management, which makes the upgrade system in ME2 a reasonable step toward actually catering how people play games. But the system shouldn't detract from what has been intrinsic aspects of RPG-play by removing player choice from the game entirely.

These two things all boil down to customization. Players of RPGs like to customize their character, to make a unique avatar-type thing of themselves. I don't think what Bioware did with ME2 detracted from this in significant ways. With a little tweaking they could easily design a system where a player would feel he had a high level of customization (even if it is just having a few same armors/weapons, getting upgrades to improve their function, and having mod slots to alter how those armor/weapons work and/or look), thereby keeping elements of what has come to be seen as traditional elements of RPG-play while allowing ME to be what ME is.

Modifié par Lukertin, 02 novembre 2010 - 08:58 .


#121
Lumikki

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Interesting, I agree you with attributes.

I mean base consept of attributes is great, but in reality it doesn't work so well in games. Meaning attributes are not balanced and players seem to favour sertain attributes, because that's how the class has design. So, players put points in same attributes pretty much same ways. Can they but other attributes, sure, but only gimp they character. Real balanced attributes would not gimp character, it would lead different style of playing.

How ever, today the different stuff of playing isn't comming from attributes, it comes from different skills, talents and abilities. So, it's more about having more customation with abilities as choosing them than puting points to some attributes or even skills. If character development in example level based, it has no meaning as content is scaled with characters abilities. So, my point is that it's not about puting the points to something or making character stronger what matters, because content scale with player character. Real diversity comes from choises of abilities what allows players do different kind of actions. Changing player options in gameplay as how to deal situations.

So yes, it allways ends in customation what really matters as allow players customize the characters the way they like. Character development as getting more attribute poits, more health points and so on has not real meaning, if they don't lead real variety. Scaling content do keep the challenge to same just neuralize the meaning of it.

Now is less better?

Most time time no, but it's better when more has no real meaning. That's what they did with ME2, cut the useless stuff off. How ever, they also did cut of something what was working well and what wasn't useless. Like 100 people here has sayed before, they over did it.

Modifié par Lumikki, 02 novembre 2010 - 12:20 .


#122
DylanZeppelin

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Aside from all the rpg stuff which I agree with and with wookieeassassin, just have them fix the inventory system instead of completely removing it, that's not a solution.

#123
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I apologize in advance for repeating some of the other opinions in this thread and others, but I've really got to say this :


The best RPGs are those that completely immerse you in the game, in which you feel the most comfortable actually playing a role like the name suggests! All the rest, including inventories, leveling up etc. are just additional details which vary from game to game. But since the genre has grown up with those things, people's judgements are clouded as to what an RPG game really is (or should be) and start endless arguments like the one a few posts above that leave everybody in a state of needless frustration.

Since Mass Effect is the franchise in which I felt the most connected to my characters, it is only fair that it should be considered one of the best RPGs in the market. I hope others agree with me on this.

RPG purists, if you are angered by ME's focus on action and combat, think of it as an evolution of the genre instead of a FPS that doesn't deserve the RPG label. Most new things are criticized heavily for a few years, then people start to accept the new products, and maybe you will too, who knows? Remember that it's just a game, and a game's value is equal to the amount of fun and entertainment you get from it. Bioware's design choices only reflect the taste of the majority of the gaming population.

Modifié par deleted, 03 novembre 2010 - 10:31 .


#124
wookieeassassin

wookieeassassin
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Trix Rabbit, you get a medal. There are lots of games that have stories and character progression but are NOT RPGs. The Brothers in Arms series is a FPS series, but the characters are well developed throughout a series of cutscenes. RPGs definitely focus on those elements, but inventories (at least of some consequence) and skill trees you where you have to choose between skills (can't upgrade all of them). There needed to be a change of the inventory system from the first one but it didn't need to be gutted completely. I really like being able to sell stuff..

I feel like the game does have more linear areas, but for places like the Zakera Ward it kinda makes sense. I'd guess each Ward would have like 30 levels or something and then there would be a bunch of different wards. I would have liked to be able to go to the Presidium or at least another Ward though. However, some of these linear areas in mission I feel are kind of necessary. In some of the shooters I've played if they give an area that is too open it can lack direction. I really like what they did in ME2 with the actual shooting part of the gameplay, it feels much better. It was kind of annoying being terrible at aiming throughout a good bit if ME1. I want the other skills back, but instead of accuracy skills they could have it where it upgrades some piece of your armor that allows you to use some mod that makes the weapon do more damage. That way, you'll need to upgrade the skills to fight enemies later on in the game but you won't have to spend 30 seconds trying to snipe someone like happened near the beginning of ME1.

Modifié par wookieeassassin, 03 novembre 2010 - 01:57 .


#125
Trix-Rabbit

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quick note, to have an "RPG inventory" you need a tab because it will encompass alot of items, in an fps game your selection of guns and such can technically be called an inventory, but really, its just a selection of guns... which is more or less what you get in me2, a selection of guns. and a couple pieces of swappable armor you can only swap in your quarters on the normandy.



and sure, the game combat is tps instead of fps. many fps games allow you to also play in tps mode aswell, quake 3 being an example. anyway my point being, the mechanics of tps/fps is the same really. you have a crosshair, ammo, you point and shoot. its simply easier to aim in fps mode. which we dont have in me2(and i sometimes wish we did for fun.)



And ill state it again (if i even have yet) Alot of the things we outline as missing or lacking as far as rpg elements, i believe just didnt make it in due to time constraints



They moved to a new engine with a full set of new resources on 2 year dev schedule. Almost all projects using a new engine with all new resources will be on 4 year schedule or at least a 3 if you only reusing a small amount.



this is why MONEY>GAMEPLAY. EA must get their money....



This is the second time ive seen a takeover as of recent where the company is like, nothing is changing. But stuff changes. The other being the Bethesda takeover of ID software, which they are promptly running into the ground.