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Mass Effect 2 and RPG Genre


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#126
Loerwyn

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Trix-Rabbit wrote...
This is the second time ive seen a takeover as of recent where the company is like, nothing is changing. But stuff changes. The other being the Bethesda takeover of ID software, which they are promptly running into the ground.

Because id have done games worth buying recently, right? Actually, no, they've not really done anything of note since Doom 3, and just how are ZeniMax running id into the ground?

On topic:
Mass Effect 2 is a TPS/RPG hybrid. Why does it matter about all these RPG elements? If you want stats, to min-max and so on then there's plenty of other games around. Sure, it's a bit annoying that we now have an ammo system and no real inventory, but so what? It's miles better now than it was in Mass Effect 1, where the inventory got full of, well, stuff really quickly. There's less of a need for credits in ME2, so there's no need to sell things.

The streamlining they did for ME2 works, and as a whole the game feels less cumbersome than ME1 did. Yes, I would like more weapon choices and a few more armour pieces, but I don't see the need for ME2 (Or ME3) to have an inventory system.

#127
deleted

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Money is an important concern for game studios because for a game to be acceptable nowadays you need hundreds of people working full time for years and millions of dollar's worth of equipment and technology. It's annoying when our favorite games become mainstream money making machines, but that's the only way most game developers can make profits and survive. I don't think they deserve criticism for "selling their soul" to EA or anything.

#128
RideUrLightning

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I feel the same way. I really enjoyed the game, but Mass Effect was much better imo. I've hardly replayed ME2, where I replayed ME at least like 12 times.

#129
RideUrLightning

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SSV Enterprise wrote...

"RPG elements" aren't always a good thing. The inventory in ME1 was atrocious. I'd much rather have ME2's streamlined inventory than ME1's tedious, unrewarding system.


The only thing "unrewarding" about it was the fact that none of the weapons had unique characteristics. However, I would much rather have the Mass Effect style inventory. because you could actually customize your weapon to your playstyle. Maybe not that well, but much better than ME2. Plus, loot is one of the best parts about RPGs. Bioware needs to hit some kind of medium, between ME1 and ME2. Streamlined doesn't = good.

#130
RideUrLightning

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Bryy_Miller wrote...

Sirsmirkalot wrote...

ME2 is a shooter with light RPG elements and I simply don't see why people insist that ME2 is a fullbood RPG. It isn't, get over it.


Yeah, but, that's just your opinion. Maybe you should get over that.


How is that an opinion? That's like eating an apple and insisting that it is a vegetable. ME2 is a very light RPG. That is a fact. You can't say "It's more of an RPG for me". It just doesn't work like that.

#131
AntiChri5

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Rpg is not defined by inventory.

#132
CalJones

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I'm more of a role player than a shooter, but having gone back to ME1 recently, I see the benefits of not having an inventory. In ME1, you spend an inordinate amount of time managing your inventory, making sure you and your companions have ammo VII instead of ammo VI (cue many tedious elevator trips down to the Normandy's lower deck), selling the rest and, in the later stages, turning everything into omnigel. It's a pain. Yes it's fun to find something rare on a playthrough but there's still too much faffing around.

Being able to customise the N7 armour is really nice but I take your point about weapons. It'd be nice to be able to buy upgrades for the guns (there is nor reason character A can have inferno ammo and character B can't - that's illogical) and that it would automatically upgrade with your level.

Not having to lug a whole load of superfluous crap with you, though, is definitely an improvement.

#133
piemanz

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RideUrLightning wrote...

How is that an opinion? That's like eating an apple and insisting that it is a vegetable. ME2 is a very light RPG. That is a fact. You can't say "It's more of an RPG for me". It just doesn't work like that.


Just because it's is not your typical RPG does not make it any less of an RPG.All the true elements of an RPG are there in bundles, people need to get over this idea that somehow no inventory means its not an RPG.These same people should probably look up the definition of RPG and stop posting nonsense.


A role-playing game (RPG) is a broad family of games in which players assume the roles of characters in a fictional setting. Players take responsibility for acting out these roles within a narrative, either through literal acting, or through a process of structured decision-making or character development.Actions taken within the game succeed or fail according to a formal system of rules and guidelines


Modifié par piemanz, 04 novembre 2010 - 04:41 .


#134
Loerwyn

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CalJones wrote...
Being able to customise the N7 armour is really nice but I take your point about weapons. It'd be nice to be able to buy upgrades for the guns (there is nor reason character A can have inferno ammo and character B can't - that's illogical) and that it would automatically upgrade with your level.

The ammo power system is one of the few things I'd change with regards to ME2. I, personally, think they work better as an upgrade item rather than a power.

#135
wookieeassassin

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I actually don't mind that the weapons have clips now. In ME1 once you got some of the better weapons about half way through the game you could just sit and fire indefinitely and it made it less challenging.

I'm kind of indifferent about the ammo powers, I don't really care if they are upgrades or not. In ME1 they were ammo mods you had to go into inventory and switch, whereas you can change them faster using a "power" in ME2.

Mass Effect is a TPS/RPG hybrid. Therefore, RPG elements, like inventories and skills other than combat skills (i.e. hacking, charm, intimidate, etc.) need to remain. I play quite a few shooters, and I don't want every single game I play to be a cover system shooter and nothing else. Having an inventory, character dialogue, looting, enemies in areas that are a certain level, stats based attacks, etc. are all elements of (most all) RPGs that make them different and enjoyable experiences. If every game devolves/evolves into a TPS or FPS then games get boring fast. Say there are 3 new shooters coming out. Since they all are probably going to be somewhat similar I'm not going to get all of them.

I am not sure if ME1 even had it where there were certain enemies in certain areas where they were just flat out too high of a level for you to beat at any particular time, but that is something I like to be in an RPG. It sort of defeats the purpose of leveling up if the enemies scale to your level. I remember that was one of the things that really, really irritated people about Oblivion when it came out.

Even if I got 2 out of 3, by the time I play one and am kind of tired of that one, then I'm already going to not have as much fun with the other one since they're so similar.

s0meguy6665: Yeah, you are probably right about none of that coming back, which is sad. You are right though, the inventory as implemented in ME1 wasn't good enough to justify one. The Normandy just needs a storage room or have Shepard be able to have storage space on a main planet hub so that having an inventory can be somewhat feasible (not 500 items). Remember how you could buy houses in Oblivion? Just throwing this out there, but maybe you could buy an apartment or something on different main planets/areas to upgrade your inventory. It'd probably be annoying to have to fly around the galaxy to get different items out of inventory so you could probably just have the inventory and it would be assumed things would be delivered to you, I don't know.

Really though, it doesn't bother me if you have an inventory that isn't necessarily feasible. The game is science fiction first of all and is not supposed to be a realistic military simulation game. Same with fantasy RPGs. Everyone knows in real life you can't carry that many items but the game would be boring/annoying if you had to choose 2-5 items to carry around. Even Legend of Zelda is like this. Link carried about 5-6 times what he could normally carry near the end of the game. Would you be insistent on Link having to go to his house and choose two items and then have those items visible on his back? No, of course not.

Those that say ME2 has an inventory, a hundred times over no. It is technically an inventory but for all practical purposes you have LOADOUTS, you know, like Call of Duty? Inventory in RPG has a place in the menu where you view your items, manage what you have, sell excess/stuff you don't want, etc.

Also, everyone: listen, I know that ME series is a TPS/RPG hybrid, so there should be some TPS elements in it. That is why I'm actually ok with thermal clips (most of the time, unless I completely run out which only happened at the beginning of the game) and the fact that accuracy with a weapon is no longer part of the ME2 skill set. It was frustrating in ME1 to have a weapon but for the first third of the game to aim worse with it than an elementary school students with random arm spasms. I would have liked it if they had had skills for increasing the weapon damage linked in some way to being able to use certain weapon upgrades though (in addition to just increasing damage).

I also do miss getting expereience for each enemy you kill, each thing you hack, etc. Now you just get it at an end of mission screen, which isn't as satisfying. Also, some RPGs do skills where if you want to improve your hacking skill you have to hack so many things to improve it, as opposed to getting skill points for anything and being able to use them for any skill. I'm undecided about whether I'd like there to be action specific experience, like using a shotgun more increases your skill with the shotgun (gives you shotgun skill points), etc.

Dang, I typed way too much. I don't expect many of you to read all this, but I am strongly against taking out/simplifying more RPG elements in ME3.

Modifié par wookieeassassin, 04 novembre 2010 - 10:30 .


#136
ThePatriot101

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Haven't read much of the comments post so I apologize ahead of time:



I think Mass Effect 1 & 2 have set new high bars for the RPG genre employing a number of things that not only worked together but came out ahead of almost any other game in other genres. Just look at how months after ME2 was released people were still arms-up cheering when another major DLC pack was announced to come out. Look at the universe Bioware's created that's been compared to the modern generation equivalent of Star Trek. And despite this game being released in January it's still on the top lists of the game reviewing community for the "Game of the Year".



When ME3 comes out, and provided it scores as big as ME2, other companies will be looking to this series to make the next big game-changer. As far as it's impacts on the RPG genre, I think it's going to inspire additional hybrid projects to appeal to larger audiences (albeit with some flops along the way, i.e. Alpha Protocol). The game showed off so much capability that few games can even attempt to match, and it makes some of those modern W/JRPGs look like 8-bit titles. And as we've seen it's thrown a lot into the question of what is an RPG with neither side showing either compromise or truth.



I hope the Mass Effect series inspires companies to up their quality standards in terms of both graphical design and game content - not just for RPGs, but for Shooters, Adventure games, and anything else that could employ a fraction of what the series has done.

#137
UberDuber

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It's a shooter.

#138
CalJones

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I don't like the levelling system as much as ME's, that's true. With ME1 you could really make a custom character because there were so many points and so many abilities to allocate them to. I also liked that you could carry over powers from previous playthroughs. It sucks that my sniper vanguard couldn't snipe until the collector ship mission in ME2. (I love sniping more than anything - a lot of missions are not nearly as much fun without it. I'm sure other people feel the same way about other weapon skills too).

With ME2, you have a pretty limited template and having to wait four missions to upgrade to the final stage of your power is not very satisfactory. Single increments work better, and means no leftover points at the end.

I don't mind the points per mission vs points per kill but a better levelling system is definitely needed.

#139
Vena_86

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clennon8 wrote...

Meh. To me, role-playing is about character interactions and moral choices. ME2 got it just about perfect.


To others it is about immersing your self into a believable game world as a character, having lots of options (customization) and freedom of how to play it.