10 réponses à ce sujet

[Dementia5]

Hello, gang. I am developing a "reimagining" of a classic RPG (Darklands) into a Neverwinter Nights 2 campaign for the community and am considering a port to Dragon Age. The substance and progress are better expressed in my blog here:

http://www.neverdarklands.net/

but I have hit a stone wall regarding memory management. From all appearances areas larger than 26 MB simply cannot be rendered (the Toolset "stops working".) If you are curious, here is the thread that addresses the issues on this forum with a number of helpful sugestions;

http://social.biowar...5/index/5101414

none of which were a success. I am losing confidence that this problem is going to get solved; you can gather the methods of trial and error on both links if you wish. One individual suggested that I consider a port to the Dragon Age domain, which brings me here.

Being a registered member of DA, I am won over by the heart and soul of this game setting, alas it is the 360 version I own, which of course has no developer's kit.

So my question is: what are your thoughts on the migration to Dragon Age? It means having to repurchase the software for the PC, and there may be gameplay mechanics different from NWN in terms of design, scripting and so forth. I see the tagline that "developing your own worlds" is an option, but I am not seeing much evidence of this, although not having DA for the PC limits my perception on this.

Yet, I think the DA engine is an improvement over NWN in many areas. I suspect the learning curve will be steeper for this toolset, but an effort worth pursuing?

Thank you for any input you may have, after working this hard on a project it becomes a part of you...

Modifié par Dementia5, 30 octobre 2010 - 02:44 .

[0x30A88]

I had no experience from any toolset and grasped this one in a matter of two months. I am far from perfect, but decent enough to make a mod.

[FergusM]

I have not used the NWN2 Toolset, but I have heard complaints that going to it from NWN1 stuff was a huge pain in terms of some things becoming much more complicated, albeit powerful. And I believe it is much the same going from there to the DAO toolset.



Creating levels in particular is very difficult. The tilesets of older toolsets are replaced with a much more flexible yet much trickier freeform system. Building worlds is a task that will require a huge deal of patience and learning.



It's also worth noting that unlike the NWN toolsets, which may have been designed for all-purpose fan use, the DAO toolset is much more geared for Bioware to make DAO. Some things may seem very illogical, confusing or difficult from the perspective of a modder trying to make a general purpose adventure.



All that said, it is an incredibly powerful piece of software, far outstripping the NWN toolsets in my estimation. If you're willing to put in a huge amount of time, there are great possibilities.

[Dementia5]

Thanks for your input. Is it true that there is no dynamic lighting with the DA product? Seems a little daft that there would be no ambient lighting with the toolset. Not having a night/day cycle seems like a limitation to me, but then again DA and NWN are different domains.



I hear that one cannot scale objects, again is this the case? Regarding scripting, how does it compare to NWN2? I'd think the scripts would be an easy port, or is the language different?

[BloodsongVengeance]

heyas;



the day/night/time does not cycle in a dragon age area. remember, its not a multiplayer game AT ALL. it is not meant to be a persistant world, or a hangout, or anything else where time passes noticeably. if you want an area in the day time and at night (or dawn, dusk, etc etc), you have to build separate areas for each. and determine which area transitions go to which.



that is correct; you cannot scale anything in the toolset.



the scripting works exactly the same as nwn (keep in mind, im coming from nwn, NOT nwn2); it's the same base language. BUT... scripting uses its own scripting language, so the functions and all are specific to dao, and may be different from nwn. (i can't think of any nwn functions off the top of my head; it's been years.)

i DO think you can work out the dao script from knowing nwnscript. like GetNearestObjectByTag... OBJECT_SELF... those will all be familiar to you. for those you dont know, a keyword search in the functions and/or constants lists will probably turn up what you want. a quick insert and hovering over the function will give you an idea how to use it. you can probably work it out fairly easily.



i haven't actually tried opening a nwnscript and copy/pasting it to the dao compiler... though i think i will try that... if i can remember how to open an nwnscript, that is. :X i want to make some card games, and my friend and i had some in nwn.





when i went from the nwn toolset to nwn2 toolset... yeah, i freaked out and screamed and quit after a couple of tries. going from nwn toolset to dao toolset.... was sorta the same experience. the really freaky things are like how it uses a database instead of haks or erfs or whatever. and the checking in and out and local copies and junk you can't write or save to.





out of curiosity... if your area is more than 26mb, why don't you just break it down into smaller areas? or is a 26mb area really dinky and it's SUPPOSED to work with something that big? i mean... in nwn, we had to break cities and islands and stuff into all kinds of smaller areas; it wasn't a big deal.

[Dementia5]

I've considered this, and no, the first area (starting point, at least from a testing standpoint) is not too dinky. Can't remember the size, but it was the second largest. But I see other modules, including the OC, with multiple areas that have seemingly larger areas that I am not capable of rendering. I can only assume that others are rendering at a better capacity than me. FWIW I can load 150MB modules, but rendering the areas is hit or miss, so I have to believe there is something going wrong behind the curtain.

I will post a link shortly that leads whoever is interested to a download at by blog with the unfinished starting area... maybe someone can perform some kind of diagnostic I am not thinking of that illustrates a global misconstrue with my area (like not properly setting environmental variables, etc...)

Keeping track of all this at my blog:  www.neverdarklands.net

Thanks for the important tips, y'all. I'll get through this, and just a cozy reminder than I am still searching for talent.

Modifié par Dementia5, 01 novembre 2010 - 03:19 .

[Obadiah]

BloodsongVengeance wrote...
...
that is correct; you cannot scale anything in the toolset.
...

Minor correction: you can scale trees only, which kind works if you want to create optical illusions of distance. But nothing else can be scaled.

Modifié par Obadiah, 01 novembre 2010 - 09:26 .

[FergusM]

Hrm, how do you scale trees?

[Obadiah]

You can scale them once they are placed in the level editor. Just change the Scale property value. It's the only object type I've seen that allows you to update the Scale value.

Modifié par Obadiah, 02 novembre 2010 - 01:07 .

[FergusM]

Ah right. For reference, you can do the same with vfx placed in the level editor.

[JasonNH]

FergusM wrote...

I have not used the NWN2 Toolset, but I have heard complaints that going to it from NWN1 stuff was a huge pain in terms of some things becoming much more complicated, albeit powerful. And I believe it is much the same going from there to the DAO toolset.

Actually, going from the NWN2 toolset to the DAO toolset should be an easier transition than NWN1 to NWN2. For most NWN1 folks, the non-tiled area design seemed to be biggest hurdle besides losing all the custom content they came to know and love. The NWN2 toolset is definitely a little more intuitive compared to DAO in my opinion, but a determined modder should be able to make the transition from one to the other.

Dementia5 wrote...

I hear that one cannot scale objects, again is this the case? Regarding
scripting, how does it compare to NWN2? I'd think the scripts would be
an easy port, or is the language different?

You can't do this in game, but you can do so easily outside of the game with the DA Tool created by Adinos. It's not as convenient since it may take some trial and error to find the right scale, but I've used it successfully myself.

I would say the biggest challenge in going from NWN2 to DAO has to do with the limited bestiary and models in general. If you don't have a DA story to tell you could find yourself frustrated having to fit your idea within the available palette of resources. That said, a little flexibility and creativity could probably overcome that in many cases too.