210 réponses à ce sujet

[Dean_the_Young]

Then you have a selectively optimistic mindset. So what?



It isn't 'simply for a mandetory character death'. Why would you insist it is? Is that all Virmire was for? A death isn't simply for death's sake: a death well done improves a serious story.



Shepard can say alot of things. You can also, in private, worry about your chances.Maintaining an upbeat attitude doesn't mean it's actually possible: Shepard says the same thing if you don't have a perfect mission at the end.

[Alamar2078]

Honestly I'd rather have the suicide mission have a LOT more bite to it. I wouldn't necessarily mind the "hold the door" team to be a 99% suicide mission. Only if the hold the door squad is loyal, has a good commander, and has enough "fighters" in it should any of them live at all.



As for Shep if the hold the door team fails dramatically then maybe only Shep. has a chance to get out. The squaddies with him could get shot or hit by Harbinger or something. Shep could either tell Joker to hold on [thus getting Joker shot] or leave him where Shep dies in some dramatic fashion.

[RiouHotaru]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Then you have a selectively optimistic mindset. So what?

It isn't 'simply for a mandetory character death'. Why would you insist it is? Is that all Virmire was for? A death isn't simply for death's sake: a death well done improves a serious story.

Shepard can say alot of things. You can also, in private, worry about your chances.Maintaining an upbeat attitude doesn't mean it's actually possible: Shepard says the same thing if you don't have a perfect mission at the end.

Because Virmire made sense.  There was a perfectly legitimate reason why someone had to die.  Looking at he Suicide Mission, I can't see that same legitimacy.  It seems people merely want character deaths so that the mission is "realistic" or true to the spirit of being a "suicide mission."  Which it still is.  And just wanting character deaths like that feels cheap, unless there's some way to prevent it.  Virmire is a major decision that comes towards the end of the game, but there's still enough plot left that the death is referenced and used to show it's own impact on Shepard and the story.

Forced deaths in the SM means characters die at the VERY end of the game.  It's not emotionally impacting to the plot that they died, because there isn't any plot left for them to impact.  You're literally moments away from the credits.  It makes no sense.

[Dean_the_Young]

A non-perfect suicide mission doesn't make sense?



If you can't see how the deaths and a revised Suicide Mission would look and work, how can you say it wouldn't have an impact?

[RiouHotaru]

Only if the decision is taken out of the player's hands.



Players should continue to have the option of completing the suicide mission perfectly.



Because the only "impact" we have right now is Shepard looking at some coffins moments away from the staff roll. I don't see how you could change that to have more impact.

[Zulu_DFA]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Players should continue to have the option of completing the suicide mission perfectly.

Players would continue to have the option of completing the "suicide mission" perfectly even if death was mandatory for all squadmates. In this case, keeping Shepard alive and whoever else (crew, Chackwas) would be the "perfect" outcome.

[RiouHotaru]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Players would continue to have the option of completing the "suicide mission" perfectly even if death was mandatory for all squadmates. In this case, keeping Shepard alive and whoever else (crew, Chackwas) would be the "perfect" outcome.

Alright, then I'll have to rephrase: Players should continue to have the option of completing the "suicide mission" perfectly by the definition of the "No One Left Behind" Achievement: That everyone comes out of the mission alive.

[Dean_the_Young]

Then it wasn't really a suicide mission at all, and most of the dramatic effect was bull ****.

Now, bull **** is a lot like Haggis. Some people like it. Steamy, hot, chunky pieces of haggis to go down, covering the mouth, brown dribbling down.

But some of us are ready for a tough steak to actually have to chew on.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 05 novembre 2010 - 09:19 .

[Zulu_DFA]

RiouHotaru wrote...

everyone comes out of the mission alive.

Lilith doesn't come out of the mission alive. You were too slow. Your "No One Left Behind" achivement is undeserved.



QED. War Hero Shepard is news vids' creation.

[RiouHotaru]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Then it wasn't really a suicide mission at all, and most of the dramatic effect was bull ****.

Now, bull **** is a lot like Haggis. Some people like it. Steamy, hot, chunky pieces of haggis to go down, covering the mouth, brown dribbling down.

But some of us are ready for a tough steak to actually have to chew on.

I'm not saying it couldn't have been more difficult to get everyone out alive, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be an option.

Also, as much as you like love totting around this "Then it's not a Suicide Mission" crap, you're missing the point.  It's a "suicide" mission because no-one who goes in has ever come back out.  The fact that you come out at all is a huge accomplishment from the story's perspective.

Really, what did you think "Suicide mission" stood for?

[Moiaussi]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Then it wasn't really a suicide mission at all, and most of the dramatic effect was bull ****.

Now, bull **** is a lot like Haggis. Some people like it. Steamy, hot, chunky pieces of haggis to go down, covering the mouth, brown dribbling down.

But some of us are ready for a tough steak to actually have to chew on.

NO IT WASN"T A FREAKING SUICIDE MISSION! Ilos was called a suicide mission too, but NEITHER WAS ILOS!

If I told you that crossing the street was a suicide mission, would you be upset because you didn't die crossing the street? The only one in game who goes on about it being a suicide mission is Shepard. I think Garrus might joke about it once when you recruit him. Other than that, WHY DO YOU KEEP CALLING IT A SUICIDE MISSION?

Sorry for the caps, but I keep waiting for an answer on that.

[Moiaussi]

RiouHotaru wrote...

I'm not saying it couldn't have been more difficult to get everyone out alive, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be an option.

Also, as much as you like love totting around this "Then it's not a Suicide Mission" crap, you're missing the point.  It's a "suicide" mission because no-one who goes in has ever come back out.  The fact that you come out at all is a huge accomplishment from the story's perspective.

Really, what did you think "Suicide mission" stood for?

And to elabourate, noone came back because they didn't have the IFF so either ended up somewhere else, or ended up in the core but outside the protective bubble. If Shepard had known in advance that he would only be facing a single enemy warship, a base with no anti ship defences that simply lets him dock, and moderate (at best) resistance on the inside, would he still have called it a suicide mission?

[Zulu_DFA]

RiouHotaru wrote...
Really, what did you think "Suicide mission" stood for?

http://en.wikipedia....Suicide_mission

Now, a short definition is: "a mission with zero or extremely low survival probability".

Low survival probability means that each participant has at least 50% chance of being killed. For a squad of 12 it returns approx. 0.025% (or 1 in 4000) chance of zero casualties on a "suicide mission".

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 05 novembre 2010 - 09:53 .

[RiouHotaru]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...
Really, what did you think "Suicide mission" stood for?

http://en.wikipedia....Suicide_mission

Now, short a short definition is: "a mission with zero or extremely low survival probability".

Low survival probability means that each participant has at least 50% chance of being killed. For a squad of 12 it returns approx. 0.025% (or 1 in 4000) chance of zero casualties on a "suicide mission".

...I'm thinking you're doing this as a pun, because I wasn't asking for a literal definition.

[curly haired boy]

hell, bring zaeed along on garrus's recruitment and he'll say it's 'goddamn suicide'.



doesn't mean it's true. shep's been doing things they said "can't be done" for the entire series. mass effect is about the player character doing the impossible, facing the impossible, and winning.

[Moiaussi]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

http://en.wikipedia....Suicide_mission

Now, short a short definition is: "a mission with zero or extremely low survival probability".

Low survival probability means that each participant has at least 50% chance of being killed. For a squad of 12 it returns approx. 0.025% (or 1 in 4000) chance of zero casualties on a "suicide mission".

Congrats on being able to look up a definition. Now please explain how Shepard had even remotely enough information to make any meaningful assessment of their odds, suicide or not.

[Zulu_DFA]

Moiaussi wrote...
Now please explain how Shepard had even remotely enough information to make any meaningful assessment of their odds, suicide or not.

Shepard maybe hadn't. But Bioware had.

The ME2's "suicide mission" was promised on the box with the game. Turned out, it was just PRBS.

And, BTW, Ilos was called a "suicide mission" by panicking Ashley Williams. Genes. You can't fool them.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 05 novembre 2010 - 09:55 .

[RiouHotaru]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Moiaussi wrote...
Now please explain how Shepard had even remotely enough information to make any meaningful assessment of their odds, suicide or not.

Shepard maybe hadn't. But Bioware had.

The ME2's "suicide mission" was promised on the box with the game. Turned out, it was just PRBS.

And, BTW, Ilos was called a "suicide mission" by panicking Ashley Williams. Genes. You can't fool them.

It's part of the dramatic story that it be called a "suicide mission".  We all know that for their to be an ME3 Shepard has to make it through the "suicide mission"

So what you're saying is, is that you're mad at them for marketing?

[Zulu_DFA]

curly haired boy wrote...

hell, bring zaeed along on garrus's recruitment and he'll say it's 'goddamn suicide'.

throngs of dead freelancers proved him right.

curly haired boy wrote...
doesn't mean it's true. shep's been doing things they said "can't be done" for the entire series. mass effect is about the player character doing the impossible, facing the impossible, and winning.

That's why BioWare denies "dead Shepard" imports. This rule does not apply to Shepard's squadmates.

[Zulu_DFA]

RiouHotaru wrote...

So what you're saying is, is that you're mad at them for marketing?

I'm mad at them for a ****** poor sequel to ME1. And a bad "suicide mission".

[Xilizhra]

Lilith doesn't come out of the mission alive. You were too slow. Your "No One Left Behind" achivement is undeserved.

Shepard has no official responsibility for Lilith.



Regarding the suicide mission, it should have been saved for ME3.

[Moiaussi]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Moiaussi wrote...
Now please explain how Shepard had even remotely enough information to make any meaningful assessment of their odds, suicide or not.

Shepard maybe hadn't. But Bioware had.

The ME2's "suicide mission" was promised on the box with the game. Turned out, it was just PRBS.

And, BTW, Ilos was called a "suicide mission" by panicking Ashley Williams. Genes. You can't fool them.

Actually, my ME2 box says 'They call it a suicide mission. PROVE THEM WRONG!'

Note the caps are theirs. Since they challenge you to prove 'them' (which is those who call it a suicide mission, which turns out to be Shepard, lol) wrong, they tell you it isn't really a suicide mission.

I hope you have something better than that as backup? 

[Zulu_DFA]

25% mandatory casualty rate would only reinforce "their claim", but would still leave plenty of room to "prove them wrong".

[Xilizhra]

No, that would still be a partially suicidal mission. Truly proving them wrong requires everyone to make it out alive. I don't regret this at all.

[RiouHotaru]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

25% mandatory casualty rate would only reinforce "their claim", but would still leave plenty of room to "prove them wrong".

Again, if you want a casualty rate, that's fine.  But to force a casualty rate just to make the suicide mission look more real?  That'd be a marketing disaster.  Character deaths like that should not occur at the end of the game.

Modifié par RiouHotaru, 05 novembre 2010 - 10:20 .