210 réponses à ce sujet

[Moiaussi]

Slayer299 wrote...

Than Bioware and Casey's constant use of the term "Suicide Mission" and "Dirty Dozen" were wrong and should never have been used. My point was that the expression of "earn your happy ending" and the way it was billed by Casey and the markeing team was misleading, not that I wanted the SM to have been frustrating and pointless. Also, a lot of other players got through the SM without walkthroughs as well, myself included (my 1st playthrough was ended at lvl 26 and with no DLC's) because it was so easy.

Box says 'prove them wrong,' and the only ones in game calling it a suicide mission are those without sufficient information to make that judgement.

As for the dirty dozen, as I recall all but one of the deaths were on the way out, after succeeding, and they only had so much trouble because one of the unit was so unbalanced that he deviated from the plan to kill a german frau, leading to tipping the germans off prematurely.

[Zulu_DFA]

Given the looks and inner motives of the ME2 squad, I think it more suits a Final Destination movie, than The Dirty Dozen.

[Slayer299]

Count Viceroy wrote...

Slayer299 wrote...
Than Bioware and Casey's constant use of the term "Suicide Mission" and "Dirty Dozen" were wrong and should never have been used

The same Casey who claimed that the new mining system was fun and addicting. Yeah.

Good Point !

[Slayer299]

Moiaussi wrote...
Box says 'prove them wrong,' and the only ones in game calling it a suicide mission are those without sufficient information to make that judgement.

As for the dirty dozen, as I recall all but one of the deaths were on the way out, after succeeding, and they only had so much trouble because one of the unit was so unbalanced that he deviated from the plan to kill a german frau, leading to tipping the germans off prematurely.

Actually, most of the DD were killed either by the Germans attacking once the alarm had gone off or in the case of 1 guy he got trapped and set off the explosives by him to destroy his target and another died parachuting into France. One guy got shot in the back on the way out, so out of 14 who went in 3 survived and only 1 of those was one of the convicts. And yeah ( I had to look up whether it was Telly Savalas or Donald Sutherland), he set the alarms off. But my point about the DD was that they went in knowing it was pretty much a 1-way trip and that *if* they got out they'd got their records wiped clean.

One thing though, I'm not clear on whether you mean by "the ones calling it a suicide mission are those without sufficient information to make that judgement." Are you referring to TIM and anyone inside the game, myself or Casey or some combination of the 3?

[Killjoy Cutter]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

HappyHappyJoyJoy wrote...

You have to be joking.  Random deaths?

"Hey, why did Garrus and Grunt die on the line?"
"It's random.  The random number generator is based on your machine's system clock."
"Uh, ok.  So, how do I get Garrus and Grunt to live?"
"Try again!  Or, there's a thread that shows what system clock times will generate which deaths, you can use that as reference."
"Gee, thanks."

Yeah, that'd be a lot of fun. Seriously.

Random crap in a game that I can't do anything to change is the opposite of fun. 

[Zulu_DFA]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

HappyHappyJoyJoy wrote...

You have to be joking.  Random deaths?

"Hey, why did Garrus and Grunt die on the line?"
"It's random.  The random number generator is based on your machine's system clock."
"Uh, ok.  So, how do I get Garrus and Grunt to live?"
"Try again!  Or, there's a thread that shows what system clock times will generate which deaths, you can use that as reference."
"Gee, thanks."

Yeah, that'd be a lot of fun. Seriously.

Random crap in a game that I can't do anything to change is the opposite of fun. 

But you can! You just have to quickload it enough times! And that would be fun!!! (Not yours of course!)

[Moiaussi]

Slayer299 wrote...

Moiaussi wrote...
Box says 'prove them wrong,' and the only ones in game calling it a suicide mission are those without sufficient information to make that judgement.

As for the dirty dozen, as I recall all but one of the deaths were on the way out, after succeeding, and they only had so much trouble because one of the unit was so unbalanced that he deviated from the plan to kill a german frau, leading to tipping the germans off prematurely.

Actually, most of the DD were killed either by the Germans attacking once the alarm had gone off or in the case of 1 guy he got trapped and set off the explosives by him to destroy his target and another died parachuting into France. One guy got shot in the back on the way out, so out of 14 who went in 3 survived and only 1 of those was one of the convicts. And yeah ( I had to look up whether it was Telly Savalas or Donald Sutherland), he set the alarms off. But my point about the DD was that they went in knowing it was pretty much a 1-way trip and that *if* they got out they'd got their records wiped clean.

One thing though, I'm not clear on whether you mean by "the ones calling it a suicide mission are those without sufficient information to make that judgement." Are you referring to TIM and anyone inside the game, myself or Casey or some combination of the 3?

They 'knew' it was a one way trip because the brass told them so. There were plenty of 'actual' suicide missions in various wars that the brass had much better information on, but didn't tell any of the solders. Small unit tactics have too many variables to call much of anything a suicide mission.

I think the fact I said 'in game' rules out Casey, unless you consider Casey fictional and 'gamey'

(It was telly savalas... I wish I could remember the character name, but don't feel like looking it up)

According to the book, I think at least 2 of the DD  made it out alive. One of them is being debriefed at the end.

Modifié par Moiaussi, 24 novembre 2010 - 05:21 .

[ReluctantMind]

If this has already been said at some point I apologize. I just wanted to note that I have seen people comment how they should have duplicated the Reaper IFF and sent more ships through the relay. The IFF is talked about as if it is a device and not just a bunch of computer code. Even if it is just computer code it may be possible to use it, but could take years of reverse engineering to duplicate it. Sort of like a caveman finding a gun and figuring out how to fire it, but never being able to build more. If they took that kind of time that would represent a lot of dead colonists.

[Slayer299]

Moiaussi wrote...
They 'knew' it was a one way trip because the brass told them so. There were plenty of 'actual' suicide missions in various wars that the brass had much better information on, but didn't tell any of the solders. Small unit tactics have too many variables to call much of anything a suicide mission.

I think the fact I said 'in game' rules out Casey, unless you consider Casey fictional and 'gamey'

(It was telly savalas... I wish I could remember the character name, but don't feel like looking it up)

According to the book, I think at least 2 of the DD  made it out alive. One of them is being debriefed at the end.

Ahh! Well I was going with the movie version and in that only Charles Bronson (Wladislaw) & Franko (the one I think you're referring to in the book, dies in the movie) and Telly Savalas char was nicknamed "Maggot"

But to brass tacks, actually I don't remember you saying 'in game', but I might have missed that. And I agree about what you said about 'actual' suicide missions, my problem is that it seemed to a phrase that was thrown around quite a lot in gme without any real concept. I mean seriously, when you're trying to recruit people to come with you, did Shepard *really* think telling them it was a "suicide mission" was a good idea or blabbing about it all over, much less TIM starting the ball on the use of the O4 Relay assault as a "suicide mission" to Shepard...

edit -fixed typo

Modifié par Slayer299, 25 novembre 2010 - 02:55 .

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Count Viceroy wrote...

Slayer299 wrote...
Than Bioware and Casey's constant use of the term "Suicide Mission" and "Dirty Dozen" were wrong and should never have been used

The same Casey who claimed that the new mining system was fun and addicting. Yeah.

And yet he was also surprised by how many people went and mined more of the planets than was required. So for some people it is obvious he was proven more than right

Besides, probing Uranus is fun and addicting, if only for EDIs response to it
"Really Commander?"

As for people in-game taking about it being a suicide mission, taking Thane's first comment on it...
"Going after the Collectors would mean passing through the Omega Four Relay, no ship has returned from doing so" (or something akin to that)
Yes, your right Thane, no ship before was the Normandy SR2 commandeered by the most bad ass Commander the Galaxy has ever seen and piloted by the best gorram pilot too. Our chances are far greater than any who have gone before

Could say that the Suicide Mission was akin to 'Stripes' than 'Dirty Dozen'
"We zip in, we zip out, it's not like we're going to Moscow!"
Edit: Ok now that I've said the above, I can't get the following thought out of my head.

ME2 Squad in Omega Afterlife whilst the crew fix the IFF. Some Asari are mud wrestling and obviously a reward is put out for anyone willing to take them on and Shep is trying to pep-talk Grunt into doing it.
"Come on Grunt, are you a Krogan or a Quarian with stomach ache, ADMIT your a Krogan, your a LEAN MEAN..." grunt joins in last two words "FIGHTING MACHINE"
Grunt stands up "OK I'LL DO IT"

THAT is what the ME2 squad were doing when the IFF was being fixed up (as long as you released Grunt from his lifepod)

Modifié par Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien, 25 novembre 2010 - 12:27 .

[James2912]

Really great ideas zulu!