151 réponses à ce sujet

[Dsentinel]

How much shorter than DA:O are we talking? IMO there is a pretty big gap between Awakening and DA:O.

[Marbazoid]

I agree that the long dungeon crawls and repetitive combat encounters definitely padded out my play time significantly. That and the codex, but the codex was AWESOME.



Want more codex.

[upsettingshorts]

As long as the Codex is made more accessible. Sorry, I'm not gonna look behind door #137 and hope I picked the right one to read the entry I wa.... nope, wrong one - guess I'll try the next one. It's only one of 50 under the heading that might cover what I'm looking for, I've got time.

[NoAngel89]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

What I'm trying to say is.. When developers hear people say "i never finished DAo" they think.. oh make it shorter. But really what they should do it make it BETTER.

I agree fully, but I also believe that there are cases where making something shorter is, in fact, a big part of making it better. Every book is made stronger by an editor, even if all they do is cut out superflous words and make zero content suggestions.

Games have flow and pacing, and the longer you make the game, the harder a time you have keeping that flow and pacing consistent and engaging. Conversely, you have a point at which a game is simply too short and feels rushed. There's a sweet spot between those states where the game feels like it's perfectly comfortable within its own skin, its own design and story.

So, shorter is not always the way to fix things, but it's certainly a tool any content creator should keep on their belt.

man Mike I really got to thank you for talking with us.  I didn't think I get a dev response here. Bet you probably have a busy schedule, so I'm really thankful for you taking the time do so.

thank you sir,

omg, sorry, typing too many thanks you XD

Modifié par NoAngel89, 01 novembre 2010 - 04:55 .

[Aermas]

I don't know about computer versions but the X-box Codex was horrible to search

[NoAngel89]

slimgrin wrote...

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

errant_knight wrote...
Thing is, DA2 isn't shorted, especially by that much, because DA:O was too long. It's shorter because it has a voiced protagonist.

Not entirely true. While voicing the protagonist is a factor, DA 2 would have been shorter than DA:O regardless. Origins had parts that dragged unnecessarily in my opinion, and this is one of those cases where my opinion affects the outcome.

The Fade. Its the only part of the game that dragged on for me.

yeah true that, stuff like that can be a double blade sword. Some parts are so long they feel like a game inthemselves lol. But having to go through the fade XD uuhhhh. Kinda a love and hate right there

[Leonia]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

As long as the Codex is made more accessible. Sorry, I'm not gonna look behind door #137 and hope I picked the right one to read the entry I wa.... nope, wrong one - guess I'll try the next one. It's only one of 50 under the heading that might cover what I'm looking for, I've got time.

Bane of my existance! Before all the codex entrie were put on Dragon Age Wiki, I would spend hours of gametime just looking up bloody codex entries, usually when I was bored in the Deep Roads, of course.

[NoAngel89]

leonia42 wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

As long as the Codex is made more accessible. Sorry, I'm not gonna look behind door #137 and hope I picked the right one to read the entry I wa.... nope, wrong one - guess I'll try the next one. It's only one of 50 under the heading that might cover what I'm looking for, I've got time.

Bane of my existance! Before all the codex entrie were put on Dragon Age Wiki, I would spend hours of gametime just looking up bloody codex entries, usually when I was bored in the Deep Roads, of course.

lol I never really looked at that thing. But I still hope to see one in DA2, but I wouldn't mind if they tone/dumb it down abit. Sometimes I just like to get into the games at time. But I occasionally I'll read it, occasionally XD

[slimgrin]

While I love long games, variety in replay is most important. I want to pick a different class, try different builds, take different paths through the game. Making a long game is easy, making it replayable is hard. Most games nowadays are designed for only one play through.

[Aermas]

The Fade only seemed long cause you were still locked in the Tower. I loved the Fade I still want to travel in it. I just don't liked being locked in the Fade that is in a locked tower. Like a frog in a hole in a log at the bottom of the sea

[Tiax Rules All]

Orzammar could be made better by adding in a few more "ruck" type characters (people to run into). It would have been nice to find more lost/abandoned/ancient dwarven artifacts and ruins and have companions comment on them and have more dialog about what to do with them and such.

I'm all for adding fun to a dull scene then cutting it out because it was boring and having a shorter experience.

I'm worried by the equation:
1/2 Gameplay over 5x storyline years = A whole lot of scene/time jumping around

Modifié par Tiax Rules All, 01 novembre 2010 - 05:03 .

[upsettingshorts]

Aermas wrote...

The Fade only seemed long cause you were still locked in the Tower. every time I replayed it, it was exactly the same.

That was my major problem with it. 

[NoAngel89]

slimgrin wrote...

While I love long games, variety in replay is most important. I want to pick a different class, try different builds, take different paths through the game. Making a long game is easy, making it replayable is hard. Most games nowadays are designed for only one play through.

yeah like FU2, the star wars game. terrible. no replay value whatsoever, what a risk bioware is taking at that apporach. But maybe the different classes (warrior,mage,rogue thing) could get us wanting to replay it. Same thing they have in ME series.

[Onyx Jaguar]

At least 7

[NoAngel89]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Aermas wrote...

The Fade only seemed long cause you were still locked in the Tower. every time I replayed it, it was exactly the same.

That was my major problem with it. 

lol yeah you deal with all that, just to .... "ahhh crap I still got to deal with the tower thing XD" yeah one of my least favorite parts of the game

[NoAngel89]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

At least 7

wow, that should be considered just a DLC or an arcade game lol

[Mike Laidlaw]

NoAngel89 wrote...
man Mike I really got to thank you for talking with us.  I didn't think I get a dev response here. Bet you probably have a busy schedule, so I'm really thankful for you taking the time do so.

Not a problem. The discussion here is a great one; pacing and flow are big areas of focus for me. It's nigh-impossible to get it exactly right, but the effort is always worthwhile.

[Blehd]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

What I'm trying to say is.. When developers hear people say "i never finished DAo" they think.. oh make it shorter. But really what they should do it make it BETTER.

I agree fully, but I also believe that there are cases where making something shorter is, in fact, a big part of making it better. Every book is made stronger by an editor, even if all they do is cut out superflous words and make zero content suggestions.

Games have flow and pacing, and the longer you make the game, the harder a time you have keeping that flow and pacing consistent and engaging. Conversely, you have a point at which a game is simply too short and feels rushed. There's a sweet spot between those states where the game feels like it's perfectly comfortable within its own skin, its own design and story.

So, shorter is not always the way to fix things, but it's certainly a tool any content creator should keep on their belt.

I can completely understand this point.  And yes, without trimming the fat of products, whatever your foundation or structure is based upon, you could potentially wind up with a bloated end result that's marred by the 'rough' and not enough 'diamond.'

That said, I don't think 40-50 hours is an unreasonable mark.  I guess it just fits my personal iteration of how Dragon Age as a series and icon feel to me personally.  Especially with how I'm understanding the direction of DA2 will be taken, by that I mean it seems to be more politics, lords and country then "Epic Blight Destroyer" - I think it lends itself to the perfect canvas for a lengthy story.

Also, couple in the 10 year span, a 40-50 hour trek just feels very fitting of the series. Yes.  All One of the games.  Either way, thanks for throwing in imput to the thread, Mike.

[DarthCaine]

NoAngel89 wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

At least 7

wow, that should be considered just a DLC or an arcade game lol

Eh? The majority of games these days are that lenght. Look at FPSs

[NoAngel89]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

NoAngel89 wrote...
man Mike I really got to thank you for talking with us.  I didn't think I get a dev response here. Bet you probably have a busy schedule, so I'm really thankful for you taking the time do so.

Not a problem. The discussion here is a great one; pacing and flow are big areas of focus for me. It's nigh-impossible to get it exactly right, but the effort is always worthwhile.

ah thank you Mike, I wish you much luck in your production of DA2 and hope its another blast like Origins. thank you sir

Modifié par NoAngel89, 01 novembre 2010 - 05:13 .

[NoAngel89]

DarthCaine wrote...

NoAngel89 wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

At least 7

wow, that should be considered just a DLC or an arcade game lol

Eh? The majority of games these days are that lenght. Look at FPSs

well maybe 13 or 14 hours.....  ah crap XD, guess it can be worse, some are just 3 hours long

Modifié par NoAngel89, 01 novembre 2010 - 05:11 .

[Fortlowe]

I really hope Brother Genitivi or another archeologist turns up. He is a side quest machine if every there was one. Mass Effect could use a character like him; well one that doesn't become a still insanely hot blue information broker. He got underplayed, but the Haven sidequest was better than some of the story missions (I'm talkin to you Tower).



Anyways, my point is, length doesn't really matter. It's depth that I want out of this game.

[Tiax Rules All]

DarthCaine wrote...

NoAngel89 wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

At least 7

wow, that should be considered just a DLC or an arcade game lol

Eh? The majority of games these days are that lenght. Look at FPSs

FPS' dont count, different genre
your comment is dismissed

[Fortlowe]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

NoAngel89 wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

At least 7

wow, that should be considered just a DLC or an arcade game lol

Eh? The majority of games these days are that lenght. Look at FPSs

FPS' dont count, different genre
your comment is dismissed

Well, there's Bioshock....

Modifié par Fortlowe, 01 novembre 2010 - 05:13 .

[Tiax Rules All]

Fortlowe wrote...

I really hope Brother Genitivi or another archeologist turns up. He is a side quest machine if every there was one. Mass Effect could use a character like him; well one that doesn't become a still insanely hot blue information broker. He got underplayed, but the Haven sidequest was better than some of the story missions (I'm talkin to you Tower).

Anyways, my point is, length doesn't really matter. It's depth that I want out of this game.

Haven isn't a sidequest