442 réponses à ce sujet

[soundchaser721]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
As DA2 is described in this article, combined with a DAO-style lack of documentation, would mean that we'd have to start the game, fplay enough to figure out the mechanics, and then stop, design our characters, and then start over having already spoiled the game's opening.

Chances are that a lot of people are going to do that anyway, though. But giving us enough prompting to design the character would be much appreciated. Mike said that you're going to get something like a "Varric interpretation" and then be told that he's lying and then be given the chance to "correct" him with the accurate information.

At this point, I'm just wondering if this "varric interpretation" is even necessary. It serves no purpose other than to illustrate the fact that varric is an unreliable narrator which could easily be conveyed by a dialogue scene, and not some flashy-animation battle scene.

[Sylvius the Mad]

soundchaser721 wrote...

At this point, I'm just wondering if this "varric interpretation" is even necessary. It serves no purpose other than to illustrate the fact that varric is an unreliable narrator which could easily be conveyed by a dialogue scene, and not some flashy-animation battle scene.

I'm actually pretty happy about this.  I allows the player to determine just how unreliable Varric is, and that might prove important for roleplaying later.

Ambiguity is mandatory.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 02 novembre 2010 - 05:51 .

[FedericoV]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Quote the rest of his paragraph. He goes on to explain how the game plays like DA:O (player input etc) but faster and smoother. At worst it's ambiguous or uncertain. At best it's saying the game is fully tactical.

Maybe you can all try to ask me . You know, english is not my native language so if I sound ambiguos or uncertain I apologize. And as I've said in my little review, I played DA:O on PC and DA2 demo on the Xbox. So knowing the differences between the platforms (since I read those board too) I was trying to be accurate while leaving room for some doubts.

Sorry if I repeat my self then. No, the demo does not feel like a back to the roots CRPG. It does not have that feel: that's for sure. It does not feel like a simulationn of P&P dice-rolling gameplay session. From the whell/voice over to the pace of combat, etc. etc. etc. The game is more actiony than DA:O and asks more imput from the players while being more responsive. The demo (at least) focused less on party combat dinamic.

For me it fall in the realms of aRPG, but as soon as you use that label, people thinks to Titan Quest, Demon Soul or Diablo and it's not like that. Da2 is DA2 but if I have to draw parallels or underline similarities I would say that the gameplay seemed a mix between Jade Empire and Kotor (and DA:O off course). Do not know if it's of any help but that's how it seemed to me.

When I said that there is still rooms for tactics, it was what I mean. In the demo there is not a lot of room for tactic, if any, because it's very straight-forward. But I can see that in higher difficulty, with different encounter design, controlling 4 charachters, etc. etc. etc. there will be room for more tactical play. How will it play? I don't know since  in the demo there was not a lot of need for it.

Modifié par FedericoV, 02 novembre 2010 - 05:57 .

[Lyssistr]

Anyhow, I probably shouldn't be wasting time in DA2's forums. DA2 is what it is and probably we'll have another 7-8 years to "return to the roots" unless a top-notch indie studio grabs the opportunity.



I haven't pre-ordered and my set buy-price atm is about 5 GBP, which means a used copy or Steam holiday season two years from now.



Those of you that buy it, enjoy it for what it is, those of us that got royally screwed and expected the DA franchise to be about "returning to the roots", will have to wait for a solid indie studio to take up the task.

[Lyssistr]

FedericoV wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

Quote the rest of his paragraph. He goes on to explain how the game plays like DA:O (player input etc) but faster and smoother. At worst it's ambiguous or uncertain. At best it's saying the game is fully tactical.

Maybe you can all try to ask me . You know, english is not my native language so if I sound ambiguos or uncertain I apologize. And as I've said in my little review, I played DA:O on PC and DA2 demo on the Xbox. So knowing the differences between the platforms (since I read those board too) I was trying to be accurate while leaving room for some doubts.

Sorry if I repeat my self then. No, the demo does not feel like a back to the roots CRPG. It does not have that feel: that's for sure. It does not feel like a simulationn of P&P dice-rolling gameplay session. From the whell/voice over to the pace of combat, etc. etc. etc. The game is more actiony than DA:O and asks more imput from the players while being more responsive. The demo (at least) focused less on party combat dinamic.

For me it fall in the realms of aRPG, but as soon as you use that label, people thinks to Titan Quest, Demon Soul or Diablo and it's not like that. Da2 is DA2 but if I have to draw parallels or underline similarities I would say that the gameplay seemed a mix between Jade Empire and Kotor (and DA:O off course). Do not know if it's of any help but that's how it seemed to me.

Thanks for clarifying man , combat was one of the reasons I didn't like Jade Empire and Kotor's combat was okish but it was mostly the setting (SW) that I like so much and this was good enough a reason not to bother with combat.

 If DA2's combat is somewhere between, considering Thedas is not Dantooine, I can't see me following DA2 anymore.

[soundchaser721]

Lyssistr wrote...

Anyhow, I probably shouldn't be wasting time in DA2's forums. DA2 is what it is and probably we'll have another 7-8 years to "return to the roots" unless a top-notch indie studio grabs the opportunity.

I haven't pre-ordered and my set buy-price atm is about 5 GBP, which means a used copy or Steam holiday season two years from now.

Those of you that buy it, enjoy it for what it is, those of us that got royally screwed and expected the DA franchise to be about "returning to the roots", will have to wait for a solid indie studio to take up the task.

Well, I believe that Gaider mentioned sometime back that DA2 wasn't exactly going to be the prototype of every game in the franchise, implying they may return to a silent protagonist, or other gameplay elements of Origins in a future title (if it happens). And my God, am I hoping thats true. So there is some hope, it just may be aways down the road.

[FedericoV]

Lyssistr wrote...

 If DA2's combat is somewhere between, considering Thedas is not Dantooine, I can't see me following DA2 anymore.

Sorry about that if that's my fault! Read the last line about tactics in my previous post since I added it after you have replied to me and maybe it can give you some hope.

[ejoslin]

edit: Edited out my original comment.  It is what it is.

But I really hope that they will consider going back to a silent protagonist in the future.  I feel like I AM the character when they're silent, and like I'm watching the character when they're voiced.  It's not that a game with a voiced character can't be fun -- they can be.  But it's not, at least for me, the same level of getting into the character.

I'm sure DA2 will be fun, and have a good story, and I'll probably enjoy it.  But I am sure I'll be watching Hawke, not being Hawke.  

Modifié par ejoslin, 02 novembre 2010 - 07:21 .

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

soteria wrote...

I know they dodged the direct question "is it an aRPG" quite a few times and the only gamesample they've released (exaggerated or not) is just that, an aRPG.

You do know they marketed DA:O as an action RPG, don't you? By that standard, I'm sure DA2 will be one as well. I'm looking forward to it.

Actually they marketed DA:O repetedly as a spiritial successor to Baldur's Gate.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

crimzontearz wrote...

Jray you are correct....I mentioned before I do work for one such company (I am trying to get out) but telling you which one would royally screw me if this was to surface. Suffice to say we do have a marketing department and they do tell us exactly what to tell and what not to tell the customers and clients and what bs to feed themwhen they ask for questions that would require answering with a seemingly inconvenient truth

Which happens in the video game industry constantly. EA is no exception to this as much as some people want to stick their fingers in their ears and pretend it doesn't happen.

[upsettingshorts]

I'd just rather wait and see if it actually happens. Notice how I had no problem with raging against announced features.

For example: I fear feature A will be cut or streamlined.
Possibility 1:  It is cut or streamlined. RAGE.
Possibility 2:  It is not cut or streamlined.  YAY.

Maintaining either position before it actually happens, especially this late in development when some opinion on the forums is even more meaningless than it might otherwise be, isn't useful and makes one appear irrational or suffering from confirmation bias.

Does that mean that reading into every announcement or interview as evidence of your fears or hopes is justifiable? Only sometimes. But on this forum it happens all the time.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 02 novembre 2010 - 08:09 .

[Tsuga C]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Jray you are correct....I mentioned before I do work for one such company (I am trying to get out) but telling you which one would royally screw me if this was to surface. Suffice to say we do have a marketing department and they do tell us exactly what to tell and what not to tell the customers and clients and what bs to feed themwhen they ask for questions that would require answering with a seemingly inconvenient truth

Which happens in the video game industry constantly. EA is no exception to this as much as some people want to stick their fingers in their ears and pretend it doesn't happen.

BDF, anyone?  

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Dave of Canada wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

And they also touted it as BioWare's spiritual successor to Balder's Gate. Totally ARPG, that was.

... and you think the average consumer knows what Baldur's Gate is? They were trying to appeal to the masses, they made the game feel a lot more actiony and "THIS IS THE NEW SH*T" trailer was considered the best trailer in my circle of "friends". They don't know what Baldur's Gate is, they hear that name and immediately think of Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance and go "AWESOME!".


+ What Sir JK said.

You need some new friends then.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

Lyssistr wrote...


The thing is, even if they add it later, it won't be as flexible. It's only 4 months till release and all their press is about consoles, not to mention that I'm yet to see a game that plays equally well on PC & console when the its design is claimed to be universal, what I've seen is ****ty controls for the PC version. The toolset ofc remains to be updated.

Even if Mr. Lindlaw hadn't made those statements to Joystick, it's pretty evident that DA2's PC version is much poorer than DAO's.

didn't notice the DA2 pc controls were ****ty, from all the interviews, previews, live streams, conventions, hands-on impressions i've seen they actually looked to be pretty solid. did i miss something?

Considering every preview has been about either 360 or PS3 what PC info has there been to even gander at?

[John Epler]

Tsuga C wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Jray you are correct....I mentioned before I do work for one such company (I am trying to get out) but telling you which one would royally screw me if this was to surface. Suffice to say we do have a marketing department and they do tell us exactly what to tell and what not to tell the customers and clients and what bs to feed themwhen they ask for questions that would require answering with a seemingly inconvenient truth

Which happens in the video game industry constantly. EA is no exception to this as much as some people want to stick their fingers in their ears and pretend it doesn't happen.

BDF, anyone?  

Consider this a warning. I've seen too many instances of BDF being used as a bludgeon to shut down discussion.  I will start considering the use of the phrase to be on par with other insults and derogatory terms and will be handing out warnings and bans accordingly.

And before people jump in with 'you're only doing this because they're on your side!', I don't really care whose side they're on. I'm in support of debate and discussion - not trying to score points by throwing out meaningless labels. I take the same view of that term as I do the proliferation of the phrase 'troll' - just because someone doesn't like a developer decision doesn't make them a troll. Conversely, just because they do it doesn't make them part of the 'BDF'.

Thank you for your kind attention in this matter.

[upsettingshorts]

BDF is a misleading term anyway. I may defend DA:2, or at least our understanding of it, strongly and consistently.

But don't get me started on Mass Effect's writing for Renegade Shepard. Or my worries that Mass Effect 3 will very likely retroactively ruin the entire point of ME2. Etc.

Everyone I've ever seen labeled "BDF" has had some problem with some Bioware game - problems more accurately - they just don't happen to agree with those throwing the term around on issues that are most important to them, such as marketing, DLC, and the voiced protagonist.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 02 novembre 2010 - 08:16 .

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

BDF is a misleading term anyway. I may defend DA:2, or at least our understanding of it, strongly and consistently.

But don't get me started on Mass Effect's writing for Renegade Shepard. Or my worries that Mass Effect 3 will very likely retroactively ruin the entire point of ME2. Etc.

Everyone I've ever seen labeled "BDF" has had some problem with some Bioware game - problems more accurately - they just don't happen to agree with those throwing the term around on issues that are most important to them, such as marketing, DLC, and the voiced protagonist.

Considering it has about 5 members total that constantly defend defend defend while mocking those who generally have valid concerns, I'd say its pretty accurate, its only that its consistantly twisted into anyone who disagrees with so and so. Which isn't the case by a long shot.

For instance AngryPants is in no way BDF'ish

[Anarya]

I don't think I've seen anyone who literally agrees with all changes being made to DA2.

[John Epler]

And just in case it was unclear - I love dissenting opinions. I think that people who disagree with our decisions help us look at things in a way we may not previously have looked at them.



I just don't like discussions being shut down with a catchy acronym.

[upsettingshorts]

JohnEpler wrote...

I just don't like discussions being shut down with a catchy acronym.

You would say that, being a BEG.

Bioware Employee Guy.

[the_one_54321]

As long as I get my DA combat and BW story I'll be happy. Everything else is subjective.

[Brockololly]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

But don't get me started on Mass Effect's writing for Renegade Shepard. Or my worries that Mass Effect 3 will very likely retroactively ruin the entire point of ME2. Etc.
 

Heh- somewhat off topic, but this just reminds me of how some people who claim its impossible to bring the Warden back in the future because its possible to do the US, still cling to the notion that the ME2 squad, if they all survived,  will return in ME3, despte them all being equally as kill-able as the Warden.

The whole "no canon" approach being touted for ME3 and DA will really start to be put to the test with how choices are dealt with in ME3 and probably to a lesser extent in DA2- but certainly whenever Morrigan comes back into the picture for DA.

[upsettingshorts]

Brockololly wrote...

Heh- somewhat off topic, but this just reminds me of how some people who claim its impossible to bring the Warden back in the future because its possible to do the US, still cling to the notion that the ME2 squad, if they all survived,  will return in ME3, despte them all being equally as kill-able as the Warden.

The difference, at least in my crackpot theory, is that at least two squadmates need to survive for Shepard to survive, and thus have a save to import in to ME3.  Unlike the US, if Shepard doesn't live, there's no export save.

How many squadmates must Shepard have at a bare minimum based on the game's mechanics?  Two.  Hmm....

"But upsettingshorts, they wouldn't punish the player by leaving them with only two ME2 squadmates plus potentially the Virmire survivor and other ME1 toons."

I think they would.  And they'd say, "Shoulda been a better leader."  And the default could have most of them surviving.  And they've got the telemetry data to say precisely how many people actually killed off that many squadmates.

Still, my argument relies on a ton of assumptions and that's why I fear they'll bring in a new squad.  And that's another thread.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 02 novembre 2010 - 08:44 .

[the_one_54321]

I think it's safe to assume that they'll at least try to give you the opportunity to pick up all the old squad mates. It's supposed to be the last game in this story after all.

But obviously one cannot say the same about DA][. Perhaps something similar in DA]I[?

[upsettingshorts]

the_one_54321 wrote...

I think it's safe to assume

The fact they can all die makes that assumption inherently unsafe, though not indefensible.