342 réponses à ce sujet

[Lumikki]

Idea of "betrayal" isn't so good. Mostly because it only works in first gameplay and it creates negative feelings in the player. Example in DAO, I never played at all with team members what wasn't supporting my goals and style how I played. So, I did not take them at all into in my teams. My point is that if player knows, it lose it's value. Only the first surprise is worth of something and negative feelings aren't really that good for the game.

Modifié par Lumikki, 24 novembre 2010 - 11:56 .

[GodWood]

Lumikki wrote...
Idea of "betrayal" isn't so good. Mostly because it only works in first gameplay and it creates negative feelings in the player. Example in DAO, I never played at all with team members what wasn't supporting my goals and style how I played. So, I did not take them at all into in my teams. My point is that if player knows, it lose it's value. Only the first surprise is worth of something and negative feelings aren't really that good for the game.

I disagree entirely.

[TheNexus]

" No multiplayer. Just... just no."

This x 50000000000000000

I have seen wonderful companies that make excellent games get pooed on once a multiplayer aspect is introduced. Please, Bioware, this franchise is too good. Don't destroy it with multiplayer.

[Hwalkerl]

I have to agree and one more thing to add to the list is to make a more compelling antagonist instead of mindless collectors/husks and the terminator. Bring a relate able antagonist relate able back or introduce one...not sure u can in the third act but work with what you have the reapers...

[Terror_K]

I just remembered, I came up with an idea to bring back Decryption and Hacking into the fray without making it too annoying. In fact, it both streamlines the whole thing even more while simultaneously giving it purpose and meaning, even if it doesn't make it that much deeper than it was with ME2.

Anyway, the basic idea is, you still no longer need the skills of Decryption or Hacking in order to decrypt or hack something so you don't need a tech-based class with you everywhere. However, rather than needing them, how about the following:-

* We make the games a little more challenging and time-dependent than they were in ME2, but not too much so.
* We bring back various levels of difficulty for Decryption and Hacking: Easy, Medium and Hard.
* Any class can decrypt or hack, but the difficulty of the block determines how many things you have to get and the time you're given. For example, with Easy Hacks you have to find 3 pieces of code in a fairly long length of time, while Medium is 4 pieces with slightly less time and Hard is 5 pieces with slightly less again. Decryption would be connecting 4 nodes for Easy, Medium 7 nodes and Hard 10 nodes, etc.
* Tech classes get the options of getting the skills Decryption and Hacking, which...
* In the first tier give you more time to complete a decryption/hack attempt.
* In the second tier give you automatic access to any Easy level decryptions/hacks (i.e. you don't need to play the mini-game at all) and all Mediums become Easy and Hards become Medium.
* In the third tier give you automatic Medium Level decryptions/hacks and High Levels become Easy.
* In the forth tier either gives you automatic access to any Hard Level decryptions/hacks (thus never needing to play the mini-games again) or a time increase and bonus to enemy hacking or increased credit gain.

Thoughts?

Modifié par Terror_K, 25 novembre 2010 - 07:20 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Terror_K wrote...
* Any class can decrypt or hack, but the difficulty of the block determines how many things you have to get and the time you're given. For example, with Easy Hacks you have to find 3 pieces of code in a fairly long length of time, while Medium is 4 pieces with slightly less time and Hard is 5 pieces with slightly less again. Decryption would be connecting 4 nodes for Easy, Medium 7 nodes and Hard 10 nodes, etc.

No, it's not fair, lol! It'd make hacking more challenging for the Adepts than Engineers, whereas something tells me that Engineer players take more fun in challenging hacking, than Adept players...

So I say: no more free lunch for the Adepts! Bring back the Omnigel.

(And make it "tech power ammo" - used up omnigel, no more tech powers for you untoill resupply. Medigel for "biotic ammo". And lose the darn thermal clips!)

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 25 novembre 2010 - 12:09 .

[Undertone]

Lumikki wrote...

Idea of "betrayal" isn't so good. Mostly because it only works in first gameplay and it creates negative feelings in the player. Example in DAO, I never played at all with team members what wasn't supporting my goals and style how I played. So, I did not take them at all into in my teams. My point is that if player knows, it lose it's value. Only the first surprise is worth of something and negative feelings aren't really that good for the game.

Sorry I couldn't help but laugh at your post. Those paragons and their touchy touchy feelings. It will create negative feelings in the player (( of sadness and regret. I am touched, I really am. Nah I am not.

Are you kidding me? It's actually surprising that nobody of the companions has questioned or betrayed Shepard so far. It makes them all look like gutless and spineless. They might believe in completely different set of values but somehow that doesn't bother them or we have Shepard do the Talk-Jutsu on them and they quickly forget how they've been their entire lifes so far.


In both ME and DA it's fairly simple what kind of style the companion has from the beginning. What you thought Morrigan is selfless when you met her? Or that Wynn likes to torture little kittens? 

Please, those are so obvious they can gouch your eyes. Just as the first moment you meet Allistair cracking jokes you know you got an unsecure, unconfident, boost my self-esteem Carth-Kaidan wanna be. There's a thing called a character archetype. 

I am talking about improved KotoR 2 loyalty system - your choices don't only reflect those that are part of your party but all of them. Plus when you make choices it should be pretty obvious to those in the ship (mission summary, companions gossiping, monitoring Shepard's progress, etc etc.) How you act towards them, how you react to issues sensitive to their culture, race and so on.

The key word here is situational, not scripted.

Modifié par Undertone, 25 novembre 2010 - 11:49 .

[Lumikki]

Undertone wrote...


The key word here is situational, not scripted.

Everyting what NPC's does is pretty much scripted. Meaning if you do stuff same ways, npcs does it too. They just react to players choises, by predefine order.

Modifié par Lumikki, 25 novembre 2010 - 12:05 .

[Anacronian Stryx]

Bioware tend to completely overreact to any criticism they get for their game.



ME1



ME1 Response : "We don't like the steering of the Mako".



Bioware : "WE'LL REMOVE THE ENTIRE DRIVING SECTION!!"



ME1 Response :"We don't like the way the inventory system works"



BIOWARE :"WE'LL REMOVE ALL THE INVENTORY!"



ME1 Response :"We like more interaction with our team mates".



BIOWARE :"WE'LL MAKE AN ENTIRE GAME ABOUT GETTING TEAM MATES AND SOLVE THEIR PROBLEMS!"



I wonder what their overreaction will be after ME2?

[ReiSilver]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

I wonder what their overreaction will be after ME2?

... oh gods *facepalm*

[Zulu_DFA]

FPS, with MP-focus?

[Nimrodell]

Terror_K wrote...

I just remembered, I came up with an idea to bring back Decryption and Hacking into the fray without making it too annoying. In fact, it both streamlines the whole thing even more while simultaneously giving it purpose and meaning, even if it doesn't make it that much deeper than it was with ME2.

Anyway, the basic idea is, you still no longer need the skills of Decryption or Hacking in order to decrypt or hack something so you don't need a tech-based class with you everywhere. However, rather than needing them, how about the following:-

* We make the games a little more challenging and time-dependent than they were in ME2, but not too much so.
* We bring back various levels of difficulty for Decryption and Hacking: Easy, Medium and Hard.
* Any class can decrypt or hack, but the difficulty of the block determines how many things you have to get and the time you're given. For example, with Easy Hacks you have to find 3 pieces of code in a fairly long length of time, while Medium is 4 pieces with slightly less time and Hard is 5 pieces with slightly less again. Decryption would be connecting 4 nodes for Easy, Medium 7 nodes and Hard 10 nodes, etc.
* Tech classes get the options of getting the skills Decryption and Hacking, which...
* In the first tier give you more time to complete a decryption/hack attempt.
* In the second tier give you automatic access to any Easy level decryptions/hacks (i.e. you don't need to play the mini-game at all) and all Mediums become Easy and Hards become Medium.
* In the third tier give you automatic Medium Level decryptions/hacks and High Levels become Easy.
* In the forth tier either gives you automatic access to any Hard Level decryptions/hacks (thus never needing to play the mini-games again) or a time increase and bonus to enemy hacking or increased credit gain.

Thoughts?

I hate any kind of mini games in my RPG, that core repairing on  Noveria was enough for me... didn't like 'em in KOTOR 1 and 2, hated 'em in ME1 (bless them for omni-gel), was happy like a hamster because DA wasn't strangling me and boring me to death with those, ME2 was somewhat OK... oh and Neverwinter nights puzzles... just why? I want to have fun, have enough of school, IQ BS tests already (tis like that BS with potions and meditating from Witcher). Guess tis 5 years of WoW playing, just anything that looks like stupid grinding and time-pointless-loosing is not my cup of tea anymore. Damn, you reminded me on Tetris hysteria back in late '80s... uh I hated it. I'm more Packman type of person, give me at least an illusion of moving, doing something and not being stuck by solving some random sequences or math equations.

[Anacronian Stryx]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

FPS, with MP-focus?

Hell they already got the husk's for the must have zombie multiplayer map

[Lumikki]

I think mini games are okey, if they fits the story and style of game as what player does. How ever, mini games what are there just to trying make game last longer, isn't good at all. Also difficulty should make game world sense too as why difficulty even exist, not just because some players want some kind of skill system as mini game. I don't want to break into 100 safe, to get some random loot. I want to break into safe, because inside it has something what I need. Point is, don't fill game with useless mini games, what are there just to make game last longer. Every feature should have story and gameplay reason to exist.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Space Opera has to have betrayal. Always has, always will

Could argue Udina did that in ME when he didn't do anything when the original Normandy got grounded. But nah, that wasn't personal.

My money is on Ash/Kaiden betraying Shep if they still think Shep is rogue and going against the best ideals of the Alliance and it'll either happen in the bridging DLC they are in, or it will foreshadow the coming stabbity stabbity backstab.

Am going to guess the latter, with the fact they'll play it more openly so that you can convince them you aren't connected to Cerberus in which case they might even forewarn you of what you are heading towards (though would make far more sense for Hackett to send a message via coms)

"ITS A TRAP!"

Or you don't convince them and they lead you towards the trap.

[Terror_K]

Lumikki wrote...

Every feature should have story and gameplay reason to exist.

I disagree. Half of ME2's problems stem from this perspective. But I won't go into that here, especially when there was a realism vs. gameplay thread around recently.

[Knight of Bronze]

OP list looks good.



Highly in favor of armor classes that all the player classes can use, but with downsides to speed, more like the Rainbow Six Vegas 1-2 system.



As far as the 80's feel... Did you mean more like Outland or more like Firefly and The 5th Element? Personally I prefer the Firefly/5th Element feel.



I also want the ammo/gun mods back and some more guns but not as many as in ME1. And I want my High Explosive Ammo (OF DOOM!) back no matter if their power or mod based.



Only thing missing from you list is...



*Better credit role music more like ME1

[Undertone]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Space Opera has to have betrayal. Always has, always will

Could argue Udina did that in ME when he didn't do anything when the original Normandy got grounded. But nah, that wasn't personal.

My money is on Ash/Kaiden betraying Shep if they still think Shep is rogue and going against the best ideals of the Alliance and it'll either happen in the bridging DLC they are in, or it will foreshadow the coming stabbity stabbity backstab.

Am going to guess the latter, with the fact they'll play it more openly so that you can convince them you aren't connected to Cerberus in which case they might even forewarn you of what you are heading towards (though would make far more sense for Hackett to send a message via coms)

"ITS A TRAP!"

Or you don't convince them and they lead you towards the trap.

Yes, yes and yes! I said that in my earlier post on this thread. Crew should be able to betray you, leave you, organize against you etc.

[Luigitornado]

Oi...



While your at it, let's wait 5 years for ME3.

[Terror_K]

Luigitornado wrote...

Oi...

While your at it, let's wait 5 years for ME3.

I'd personally rather wait 5 years for an ME3 that was long, deep, involved and epic with loads of variations and rich, involving gameplay and decent RPG features than just end up getting ME2.5. If ME3 ends up being 90% like ME2 was with just a different story and characters I think I'd just cry myself to death.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Considering they are looking to bring the game out on the current systems, I doubt they'll be developing it that long.

2012 at latest is my prediction, may even be out late next year.

If I remember rightly a Dev early on just after ME2 was launched did state that most of the groundwork for ME3 is set, so now they are just needing to work on getting all the variables that are coming into it in place. That ain't going to take more than 2 years. Even with the added PS3 addition and any potential bridging DLC to work on.

[Da_Lion_Man]

Terror_K wrote.... If ME3 ends up being 90% like ME2 was with just a different story and characters I think I'd just cry myself to death.

I think that's what's going to happen though.

[Jebel Krong]

Terror_K wrote...

Luigitornado wrote...

Oi...

While your at it, let's wait 5 years for ME3.

I'd personally rather wait 5 years for an ME3 that was long, deep, involved and epic with loads of variations and rich, involving gameplay and decent RPG features than just end up getting ME2.5. If ME3 ends up being 90% like ME2 was with just a different story and characters I think I'd just cry myself to death.

so would i, but commercial pressure will ensure that doesn't happen. as long as they continue to improve from the foundations of me2, most people will be more than happy, especially given what is expected to be a reasonable turnaround (jan 2012 being my bet). there aren't that many games that give you 50+ hours playtime, even now, especially single-player at the quality mass effect does. 90% like me2 isn't bad if the 105 is real improvement, they don't need to start a lot of things from scratch like they did me1...

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 03 décembre 2010 - 02:36 .

[earthbornFemShep]

I agree with many of your points and disagree with many others... but I really disagree with eliminating the "lump sum" of XP gained after missions.

I like the "lump sum" of skill points. In ME1, I was always a bit depressed when my paragon Shepard used her head to talk sense into people to avoid a confrontation, save a hostage, show off her technical prowess, etc... only to be cheated out of experience points that could have gained if I would have just beat on my chest and yelled, "CHARGE!"

Modifié par earthbornFemShep, 03 décembre 2010 - 10:03 .

[Terror_K]

earthbornFemShep wrote...

I agree with many of your points and disagree with many others... but I really disagree with eliminating the "lump sum" of XP gained after missions.

I like the "lump sum" of skill points. In ME1, I was always a bit depressed when my paragon Shepard used her head to talk sense into people to avoid a confrontation, save a hostage, show off her technical prowess, etc... only to be cheated out of experience points that could have gained if I would have just beat on my chest and yelled, "CHARGE!"

The problem I have with the "lump sum XP" is that as it stands it seems completely arbritrary with no meaning or context at all to justify it. It's just a random number to me, that's always the same all the time no matter who I approach the mission. For all I know it really doesn't have any significance and could simply be a random number BioWare made up and put there to give the illusion of earning XP and make the game seem like an RPG to merely try and placate those who they knew would be disappointed by the overall lack of RPG elements as it was.

Now, I'm not saying one must earn XP for kills again necessarily, but when you earned XP gradually in ME1 as you went at least you knew how you got it, why you got it and that it was tied to your accomplishments. You could see it vary depending on things and see how those who did more were rewarded more and how going about things different ways earned you different amounts. It had context and meaning and you were clearly rewarded for your actions.

You could at least level-up randomly and mid-mission with ME1 as well, while with ME2 it's always at the same post-mission point every time, so it lacks surprise and variation. Hearing the level-up noise was a treat in ME1 because it was often unexpected and you'd go, "Yes, I leveled up! I get to become better!" With ME2 it's predictable and you don't even really know why you got it.

Put it this way: say you're a child, and as such your parents punish you when you're bad and reward you when you're good. ME1 was a case of Daddy and Mommy BioWare giving you rewards and punishments throughout the space of a year as you were either good or bad. ME2 is like 365 days passing with Daddy and Mummy BioWare ignoring you until that very last day and then suddenly taking you aside and spanking you 112 times and giving you candy bars 157 times, and then walking off to ignore you again until the next year rolled around.