342 réponses à ce sujet

[AntiChri5]

I couldn't agree more with half of what you said, and couldn't disagree more with the rest.



Where does that leave us?

[AntiChri5]

As a Vanguard fanatic, i have to say, Biotics arent nerfed at all.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Biotics might be balanced, but they feel wrong in ME2. armor/shields reducing the effectivness of biotics make sense, but to make them completely inefficient doesn't feel right.

Tech powers on the other hand felt so much better and interesting in ME2.

Just my take on it.

[Haventh]

Adept (and other biotic classes) work perfectly, it's just that you either need a bonus power for those targets who are temporaly immune to dmg biotics... or just bring squadmates that makes up for that. But anyone who isn't shielded against biotics should be torn to shreds.

No class in ME 2 is impossible to play, and each one of them are incredibly strong if you know how to play them, and know what bonus powers and squad mates to take with you to make up for the weaknesses.

Modifié par Haventh, 02 novembre 2010 - 10:11 .

[Terror_K]

AntiChri5 wrote...

I couldn't agree more with half of what you said, and couldn't disagree more with the rest.

Where does that leave us?

Bring up what you don't like and we can discuss and see if we can find some kind of compromise or something.

Lizardviking wrote...

Biotics might be balanced, but they feel wrong in ME2. armor/shields reducing the effectivness of biotics make sense, but to make them completely inefficient doesn't feel right.

Pretty much how I feel. In ME1 they were too powerful, admittedly. In ME2, not enough. I think they need to actually do some minor damage to protected enemies or at least something more than a little wobble. The thing is, by the time one has got down their defenses with a weapon it's just quicker and easier to fire another shot to finish them rather than use a biotic power that might not even finish them at all (Shockwave is like bowling: you knock 'em down, but they get up again in the next round; its damage is pathetic, even when maxed).

Modifié par Terror_K, 02 novembre 2010 - 10:16 .

[Kronner]

Terror_K wrote...

Pretty much how I feel. In ME1 they were too powerful, admittedly. In ME2, not enough. I think they need to actually do some minor damage to protected enemies or at least something more than a little wobble. The thing is, by the time one has got down their defenses with a weapon it's just quicker and easier to fire another shot to finish them rather than use a biotic power that might not even finish them at all (Shockwave is like bowling: you knock 'em down, but they get up again in the next round; its damage is pathetic, even when maxed).

So why do you play on Insanity or Hardcore? Have you ever considered that a lot of people like those modes the way they are now? If you want a biotic god, play on Normal. Do not take away something from others just because you do not like it. There are options for everyone in ME2. And biotic powers are just fine on Insanity. The defense blocking may not make sense lore-wise, but it sure as hell is a great gameplay mechanic.

Modifié par Kronner, 02 novembre 2010 - 10:30 .

[sinosleep]

Most enemies in the game have 1:1 health to defense ratios, a few have more defenses, more than those actually have more health (health regenerating enemies like klixen, vorcha, and krogan). How on earth the myth that once enemies are defenseless they just fall down and die continues to spread is beyond me.

[edit here] I don't want to seem like I'm jumping down your throat cause it's just one issue so I thought I'd go ahead and add I actually agree with a fair amount of the stuff in the OP. Will post specifics later.


[further editing] red means I disagree, standard means I like it, green comes with a caveat

PRESENTATION

* Get back to the pseudo 80's sci-fi roots of ME1; less of the modern Hollywood approach of ME2.

* Bring back larger areas if possible. Find a way to cheat it if need be if framerates can be an issue. Adding vehicle sections or things such as the Illium car chase in LotSB can help make places seem bigger for instance. Elevators couldn't hurt, so long as they weren't too slow. Transition cutscenes perhaps, where you may see Shepard walking and talking with somebody as the next area loads.

* Places need to feel more open and branch out more than they did in ME2. Have multiple routes, and bits that lead you off elsewhere.

* I can't stress this one enough: give us proper combat and space capable outfits on people. No more having people run around in their civvies yet somehow getting the full benefits of kinetic shields and medi-gel dispensers. No more running around in dangerous environments affected by pressure, vaccuum, toxins, extreme temperatures, etc. with skin exposed and only a breather mask on, etc. It's stupid and shatters believability, pulling you right out of the experience. It's not cool, it's pathetic and moronic.

I only support this if the armor still allows for individuality. I like the fact that Miranda, Jack, and Samara have different waist, bust, and rear proportions. I don't want to suddenly feel like I'm playing DA: O again where changing anyone out of their default outfits results in everyone suddenly having the same body type.


* A Fallout/DAO series of summary screens post-ending outlining how your Shepard had a mass effect (sorry... couldn't help myself) on others would be nice too... just FYI. It'd be a nice way to really cap off the trilogy and let you see where your choices led beyond the games.

* No more one-piece armours without removable helmets. A helmet toggle option and/or a DAO style cinematic removal of helmets (except when it makes sense to have them on). I'd personally prefer just the former really, so one can have the bonus the helmet of choice gives you along with the option of whether you see it or not, but so that it appears when it needs to. That's pretty much what it was in ME1 after all.

* No more "Mission Complete" screens. Main missions should be summarised via discussing them on The Normandy with your crew, more akin to ME1, and then XP given out just after this for the mission. XP should also --as before-- be gained gradually and for your deeds in a clear, concise manner rather than as a meaningless lump sum with no context.

* Bring back elevators if possible instead of loading screens. This could also help make areas seem larger without them being larger if done right.

* Change the HUD back to something more like ME1's HUD, or something new. The current one is too vague and unclear. Bring back the radar and/or mini-map too.

Like the HUD as is, the mini-map being more of a permanant fixture would be nice though.

* Get rid of ammo-powers, the concept is stupid and makes no sense. Make them mods again like they were originally.

Only if they stick by the logic of having only certain classes being able to handle certain kinds of ammo. I think the biggest reason they switched to powers was in order to support the soldier. They knew they were getting rid of weapon powers like carnage which benefited the soldier most since they were the most likely to bother investing points into multiple weapons so they had to come up with another way for the soldier to remain superior in that area. Ammo powers were it.

* If we're going to have The Hammerhead (I'd prefer not personally... awful vehicle) or some kind of vehicle, we need the following: a proper HUD (along with shields, a health bar and radar), the ability to save in it and the ability to exit and enter when we like.

* No multiplayer. Just... just no.

COMPANIONS

* Companions should have friendship paths as well as romance ones, allowing them to open up even when they aren't romantically linked with you (e.g. how Jack's full story isn't seen unless you're a male who romances her).

* More dialogue on missions. I'd suggest a mix of things for this. Have it so you can interact with them on-mission ala ME1, and bring back the ME1 style observation places, though more in the style of the interactive ME2 ones over the proximity + "make interesting noise" ME1 ones. Have it so they have a few phrases about each major place. Have Dragon Age Origins style trigger points. Even a few small elevators convos here and there.

* Have certain quests that only open up when you take a character to a certain location, somewhat akin to KotOR. For example, if you go to Palaven and have Garrus with you a little quest opens up.

* Have some conversations between characters now and then, even sometimes without Shepard there. Have them somewhat like KotOR 2 whereby you return to The Normandy from a mission and before resuming on the ship you see the odd little cutscene between two companions, sometimes related to Shepard, sometimes not. Have these things skippable for those who don't want to see them.

* Companions should weigh in more on quests and interact with each other based on your combinations as well as Shepard. Again, look to DAO for how to do this well. Even little things such as acknowledgement of the other companion can make a big difference (i.e. instead of simply saying "I think we should side with them on this, Shepard" have them say, "I agree with Garrus, we should join these people for this.")

* Give companions both a civilian outfit and a combat outfit, just like Shepard (and like they sort of did in ME1). This eliminates the issue of them still having unique clothing while being able to go on dangerous missions without it seeming universe-shatteringly stupid. When more than half of the time you talk to them they're on the ship anyway, what's the real point in avoiding giving them armour to make them special. Besides, you can just give them their own special armour if we're still not going to be able to alter their outfits. That said...

* Bring back being able to alter their outfits. Maybe not loads of options. Even just a colour and pattern choice would be nice. That said, I'd be happy enough with just the above option of two outfits. Seriously... just eliminate the whole "running around in combat and dangerous environments unprotected in mere clothing" and I'll be happy enough merely with that.

* A few "this or that" companions would be nice in ME3. i.e. you can either have this companion, or that one, but not both. Playing as one of them, if only briefly, would be cool too. For example, you have to split into two teams and at one point you control Shepard and his/her team while at another point you control the second team.

* Companion loyalty needs to be more than just a binary state of either loyal or not. There should be a level of trust each companion has for Shepard. These, IMO, should also vary depending on who they are as well as what you do, and their past with you. For instance, if Garrus and Tali were in ME3 they'd automatically have a really high level of trust automatically, but it would be even higher if you got their loyalty in ME2 and even higher again if you'd done their ME1 quests (Dr. Saleon and Geth Data respectively) and yet even higher if you'd romanced either of them. Beyond romance interests, the next highest would be those from ME2 you gained the loyalty of, then the likes of Kaidan/Ashley and then those who survived ME2 but you didn't get loyalty for, then newbies for ME3 (unless they were knew as squaddies but not new as characters, such as Anderson, Shiala, etc. who would get a little more loyalty, depending on circumstances).

* Remember how with Kaidan or Ashley you could ask them "what's your opinion of the last mission?" after each main quest? Let's have that back, but for every companion. It would also be nice if companions commented on each other as they joined, so you could have a "what do you thing of X?" type query as well.

DIALOGUE

* Have certain situations where Charm and Intimidate aren't always the "win" button. Have it so that while you pass it doesn't always lead to the same general outcome. Have it so that some NPCs react more favourably to one over the other, and visa versa. For example, a krogan bounty hunter would see an Intimidate response as you being strong and respect that, while mere words and a kinder, friendlier approach he may see as weakness. On the other side of things, a human enslaved by some batarians would react well to a kind word, but think somebody who is intimidating is a bully and close off.

* Dialogue choices related more to both your backgrounds, as well as your class. Shepard has a pre-service history and his/her claim to fame so it would be nice to have these referenced a little more now and then.

* Dialogue choices related to your class. Perhaps an Adept would know something about biotics another class wouldn't, while an Engineer would know about mechanics and electronics and a Soldier may know more history about Earth conflicts, including The First Contact war.

* More Paragon choices should blow up in your face. While they net you the Paragon points and give a generally better outcome initially, have them so that down the line one or two may actually lead to a lesser outcome. For example, letting a criminal live and sent off with a warning is generally more Paragon and simply executing them, but then perhaps the criminal doesn't listen and causes some problems for people down the road.

COMBAT

* Bring back crouch.

* Keep universal cooldowns, but limit them to whatever type they are. i.e. a biotic attack affects only biotic powers, a tech ability affects only tech abilities, etc. Cooldowns need to be a little slower too; as it stands, it's barely offline long enough to make a difference.

* Thermal clips. IMO the damage has already been done here, but some can be saved if the universe starts to actually see how backwards things are and decides to incorporate a hybrid system.

* Not a fan of being forced to use weapons I don't want to. Either allow us to slot a particular gun type with nothing, or instead of limiting us to carrying one of each type simply give us a limited amount of areas to carry the weapons and allow us to carry what we want out of what's possible. If I can use shotguns, I should be able to carry two of them at the expense of another weapon if I like, or none of I prefer Pistols and SMGs. Though I'd advise that the hip slot should always only be able to carry a pistol... maybe an SMG.

As long as they can figure out a way for the soldier to still have the advantage here, like say unique weapons of each type that only the soldier can use, then I don't really have an issue with this. 

* Use combat more to the advantage to create interesting situations and puzzles without deviating too far away from the main gameplay. Haestrom did this a little with its intense heat, and beyond that some of the gimmicks in some of the N7 missions (see below for more on that) could be better used as part of something larger in a main quest. Beyond that, look at Gears of War for inspiration on how to do this.

NON-COMBAT GAMEPLAY

* Bring back Hacking and Decrypting as skills for tech-based classes. That said, to counter the issue of needing a tech to do these things, give alternatives to other classes. Give soldiers a bash attack and biotics a biotic pulse for containers, at the risk of damaging contents. Beyond this make the timer slower for tech-based classes with less objects to deal with, simply making it faster and simpler for them.

* Bring back armour classes similar to ME1, but give them additional pros and cons. Heavier armour protects more, but at the cost of speed and weapon-switching time, while light armour offers less protection but makes you faster. Medium armour is the middle ground. Don't make players find different kinds, simply let the player choose in their customisation which type you want of the three. Keep it class restricted ala ME1, though allow other classes not capable of wearing heavy be able to buy the ability as training using credits.

* Skill trees should branch off into two more diverse paths about halfway through, rather than at the very end branching off to two barely-different alternatives. For example, a biotic attack called Biotic Wave that is a simple shot of biotic energy to do small damage could split off into Shockwave and Biotic Orb, while another biotic power could split into either Lift or Pull. The player should then also be able to travel down both paths if they like, but at the cost of more points.

* Planet exploration should return. I'd doubt they'd go back to The Mako, though I would prefer it. The Hammerhead either needs a massive overhaul or needs to go; we need a proper exploration vehicle that's also combat capable that would make sense, not a zippy little platforming thing designed specifically for arcadey little games on overly designed worlds. If the UNC worlds were fewer and weren't as steep and had more intersting content on them I don't see The Mako being too much of an issue: just tweak the suspension and overall bounciness a little and it should be fine. In either case, be they UNC worlds or something akin to Overlord's main hub area or some of both, we need some proper exploration back.

Depends entirely on the vehicle.

* Planet scanning. Here to stay I believe. If that's the case, it needs some tweaking, though I was never as bothered by it as most were to be honest (funnily enough, considering how much of ME2 I didn't like). I'm not sure what exactly needs done here. Make it too easy and it becomes pointless... too hard and/or repetitive and it becomes annoying.

* There needs to be better mini-games overall. The current ones are too simple, even without making the timer slower later on with the upgrade. Alpha Protocol had some good examples of how to do this as its hacking, decryption and unlocking mini-games were all better done: not too easy or long, but also just challenging enough to make them not a cake walk.

* The Renegade isn't supposed to just be a jerkwad, he's supposed to be the one who does what needs to be done to get the job done as fast as possible. This somehow needs to be reflected more and better.

INVENTORY AND ITEMS

* An inventory system doesn't need to come back, but there does need to be more inventory and more meaningful inventory overall.

* More weapons overall. ME1 had too many, ME2 far too few. If we had all the ME2 DLC items along with all the ME2 items in ME3 it would be about right, so I pretty much suggest that.

* Visible stats on weapons and armour. Simple as that.

* Armour should act like armour again. As it stands it doesn't even protect, and is more akin to wearing a bunch of rings or amulets rather than armour. To avoid the whole "but I'm forced to wear a style I dislike for max protection" just make sure that the outer plates are customisible and that it's the underlay and material that determines the protection.

* Bring back weapon mods. Not necessarily all the same ones as in ME1, but in some form. I'd like to see things like Combat Optics back though, but other things such as laser sights, scopes, thermal clip storage, etc. as well. Could be bought, found or created. These need to be limited so the player has to choose and can't just slot everything, so as to avoid...

* The research/upgrade system. Should remain, but needs an overhaul. Should no longer be able to upgrade everything to max any more as this is basically God-modding. This is how guns should basically be leveled (i.e. instead of having tiers I to X ala ME1, you upgrade from I to X using research, and only have to once for each type of weapon). Use this to make mods for weapons and armour.

* Bring back omni-tools and biotic amps. Have fewer of them, but have each one different in its benefits and weaknesses. Faster cooldown for less damage, or more damage for slower cooldown, or a more balanced one, etc. No one should be clearly superior to the others. These should also be able to be upgraded via the research system. Perhaps a single, specific boosting mod could go into each one too.

* The Normandy. More sprucing up would be nice, though I'd like to see this not as high a priority as it was in ME2. If you have the time things like "trophies" and other momentos from certain missions to keep in your quarters would be good. Beyond this, I'd also like to de-Cerberize it in ME3 if possible. Let me give the SR2 a more SR1 style paintjob, or even something more independent. I just want rid of the Cerberus decals in some way now.

MAIN QUESTS + STORY/NARRATIVE

* This is the main one: More meaningful consequences. Make my decisions actually feel important. Real, different outcomes too, none of these weak substitutes where the outcome is basically the same and only the character changes or one or two pieces of dialogue change, but the rest is identical. The Council decision should have changed Council space a lot, but didn't. Wrex being or not being on Tuchanka should have greatly changed it, but it didn't. Kaidan or Ashley surviving should have changed more than simply who met you on Horizon, but it didn't. I believe the point is made.

* Councilor Udina is canon. Please at least give some kind of explanation for those of us who chose Anderson beyond a forced retcon. Have the rest of The Council demote him or the Alliance ask him to step aside for Udina because they feel Udina better represnts them or something... just don't leave it like it is now with nothing else.

* More alternate branches on quests as a whole. Noveria in the original game is the example of how to do this: half a dozen ways to get the garage pass at Port Hanshan, then other alternatives at Peak 15 itself. ME2's quests were too linear beyond the odd dialogue choice towards the end and pretty much always ended in the same result... ME3 needs more choices, more alternatives and more outcomes. Relating to my notes above in the DIALOGUE section, there could be different paths for Paragons and Renegades even.

* Narrative reasons to do sidequests, particularly if this is another "race against time" style story. Give us a natural pause in the narrative where somebody says to you "before you proceed it'll take some time to do this" or something, then the player can choose to either skip straight to the next day (or week, or whatever) or use the time to go and do sidequests. This way the flow of the narrative isn't interrupted for those who want a logical reason to do sidequests, while those who don't and just want to get on with it can, but can always do sidequests later too if they so chose.

* If this is a "race against time" story reflect that more some how. Make things harder for players who do more sidequests before the final part by having more enemies because they've had more time to gather their forces, or have more worlds fall to The Reapers if you take too long or something. If the game is open-ended and you provide the right narrative reasons to do sidequests and the player chooses to go about things smartly then they should still be able to do everything without being too punished. We saw a little of this with you wasting time after the crew had been taken in ME2, so it would be nice to see more along these lines.

* Like ME2, I'd like the game to be open-ended if possible, so you can play after the credits. Not just for DLC purposes, but for special post-game content you can only get after the main story is complete. Things like news reports on your exploits, people acknowledging them via dialogue. I'd also like to steal an idea from Oblivion: the statue you get of yourself based on your actual character. A statue of Shepard should appear on The Presidium or somewhere else at the end of it all, based on your own Shepard's face and armour and everything.

SIDE QUESTS

* Side quests are side quests for a reason: to get us away from the main story for a little while. Have less ones related to the main quest and more independent ones if possible.

* Less fetch quests, or more involved ones. For example, Rupert's ingredients quest would have been more involved and deeper if there were more things to get from it, such as perhaps getting quarian food for Tali from The Migrant Fleet or krogan chow from Tuchanka as well, etc.

* Sidequests should have more unique areas rather than have us trip over the items related to them as we go on our journey anyway. For example, the quest on Tuchanka for the krogan mechanic had us trip over what he needed on Mordin's loyalty quest. Same goes for the Salarian data and the missing trinkets on Illium. If we're going to get sidequests at least have them take more of an effort to do. Make us go off-world for them, or at least have to divert somewhere we wouldn't naturally go perhaps. Compare the aforementioned ones to the optional Zhu's Hope stuff that actually had you go to a separate area off the beaten path of the main quest.

* Locations: I'd like a mix of a few ME1 style UNC worlds, a few ME2 style N7 worlds and a few Overlord main hub style worlds. ME2 missed out on that feeling of lonely, desolate, unexplored vastness that had an impressive, quaint beauty to it that the UNC worlds gave us and this made the universe feel small and populated. N7 missions were better designed, but a little too much so, feeling over-designed, small and this made the universe in ME2 feel even smaller again. Overlord's area felt like a good blend of the two, but some areas still should feel more compact and others more empty, hence why a mix of all three would fit best, IMO. Having a mix would eliminate most of the issues each style had too, UNC planets not being so bad because there's less of them and more variety on the other worlds, and N7 style places not making the universe feel small since it has UNC ones to off-set that flaw.

Like in the other exploration suggestion, it would depend entirely on the vehicle.


* Presentation needs to improve from the N7 ones. See the remaining points in this section for examples:

* Shepard and companions should actually speak now and then, have some dialogue choices and even some moral choices.

* The stories need to be more interesting and rely less on gimmicks (though many of these gimmicks could work as part of bigger missions. Isolated they're gimmicky, but when part of something larger they'll work better).

* Less shooting nameless mercs and collecting datapads, more interesting characters who will speak, be they antagonists, victims, quest-givers, witnesses, etc.

* More proper set-ups and less emails and merely scanning random planets for anomalies. Bring back Hackett or some other Alliance or Council quest-giver, and even others who simply want help. More along the lines of Nassana Dantius, Helena Blake, Garoth, Admiral Kahoku, etc.

* Another quest or two related to Shepard's backgrounds please. Either related or unrelated to the ME1 ones.

Modifié par sinosleep, 02 novembre 2010 - 11:13 .

[Googlesaurus]

Terror_K wrote...

Keep in mind when I said cooldowns need to be a "little slower" I meant only a little bit more. Not as slow as they were in ME1 (though that didn't work too bad when they were individual) but just a tad slower than they were in ME2. In ME2 I felt the cooldown barely made that much of a difference: you could basically throw out your power, take cover for two seconds and it was ready again. I can see how this could annoy those who use powers more exclusively though, but I also think biotics need to be un-nerfed in ME2.

Alternatively, this could be addressed by changing enemy AI and gameplay so that taking cover isn't the automatic solution to every firefight. Most enemies that charge are too slow, and the level designs are so linear you'd have to be blind to miss them coming for you. Geth hoppers from ME1 are fast and nimble, but their jumping patterns are very predictable and they only possess ranged attacks. ME3 needs a deadly melee enemy that's hard to hit. 

ME3 would benefit from having a more interactive economy. If you have too much element zero, sell it for credits. If you want to make money with the sweat of other brows, buy some stock in one of many shady corporations across the galaxy. 

[Terror_K]

sinosleep wrote...

* Get back to the pseudo 80's sci-fi roots of ME1; less of the modern Hollywood approach of ME2.

Out of curiosity, what do you have against this? To me Mass Effect was originally such a great homage to the sci-fi classics from the late 70's through to the early 90's. ME2 just feels too much like they moved towards a more modern approach, which I personally don't really like the style of. That's my basic reasoning there.

* Get rid of ammo-powers, the concept is stupid and makes no sense. Make them mods again like they were originally.

Only if they stick by the logic of having only certain classes being able to handle certain kinds of ammo. I think the biggest reason they switched to powers was in order to support the soldier. They knew they were getting rid of weapon powers like carnage which benefited the soldier most since they were the most likely to bother investing points into multiple weapons so they had to come up with another way for the soldier to remain superior in that area. Ammo powers were it.

I can't agree with this, as it defeats the main purpose of why I want ammo powers gone. The thing is, while I see that the Soldier needs an advantage and a good range of powers, I think just giving them what were previous mods as powers is a lazy way out of actually thinking up some good Soldier-specific abilities. Not only did it kill mods (in conjunction with the bad upgrade/research system) but it makes no sense that one has to be a certain class to use what are essentially plug'n'play mods, especially when in ME1 any class could use them. The main reasons I want them gone is because I want modding back and the whole concept of "ammo powers" is completely retarded, IMO (Warp Ammo is kind of an exception here though). Give the Soldier some new abilities to fill the gap instead, that's the answer.

Pretty much everything else you made red I'm not married to, they were merely suggestions for adding some more depth to the gameplay and more RPG elements. Though I do really want omni-tools and biotic amps back in some form... I really miss them.

Oh, that, and I still feel that the ME2 HUD needs to go. That thing is awful, IMO.

Modifié par Terror_K, 03 novembre 2010 - 03:55 .

[sinosleep]

Out of curiosity, what do you have against this? To me Mass Effect was originally such a great homage to the sci-fi classics from the late 70's through to the early 90's. ME2 just feels too much like they moved towards a more modern approach, which I personally don't really like the style of. That's my basic reasoning there.

I probably should have just asked to clarify what you meant by the modern hollywood approach and instead I just made a ton of assumptions. I took it as ME 2 becoming too action heavy (more of a shooter), akin to say a Bruckheimer flick. And since I like the amped up combat I just marked it red.

I can't agree with this, as it defeats the main purpose of why I want ammo powers gone. The thing is, while I see that the Soldier needs an advantage and a good range of powers, I think just giving them what were previous mods as powers is a lazy way out of actually thinking up some good Soldier-specific abilities. Not only did it kill mods (in conjunction with the bad upgrade/research system) but it makes no sense that one has to be a certain class to use what are essentially plug'n'play mods, especially when in ME1 any class could use them. The main reasons I want them gone is because I want modding back and the whole concept of "ammo powers" is completely retarded, IMO (Warp Ammo is kind of an exception here though). Give the Soldier some new abilities to fill the gap instead, that's the answer.

This one goes back to one of our older conversations (at least I'm pretty sure it was with you) where I'm a lot more willing to take a gameplay decision lore be damned where as you aren't as likely to take it laying down.

I know ammo that was plug n play before suddenly becoming powers makes no sense other than from a gameplay perspective, and turning them back into mods but keeping them class specific makes even less sense but I just can't think of too many other ways of improving the soldier due to how PERFECTLY adrenaline rush fits the class.

I mean how many additional powers does a soldier need when with that one he gets huge boosts to basically everything he would ever need to do? I mean, it's essentially all the old combat perks from ME 1 bundled up together combined with time dilation that's beneficial both for aiming and defense. So unless they plan on dialing down adrenaline rush (which I doubt) I think they're going to have a real hard time coming up with something else to gice them.

As for the HUD, that issue I KNOW we've been over and I think it's just an agree to disagree point.

I've gotta say though, I'm pretty surprised with how much of the OP I agree with. It seems most of our issues have more to do with tone and semantics than the things that actually make the game what it is.

Modifié par sinosleep, 03 novembre 2010 - 04:20 .

[Mallissin]

I agree with all of the things Terror has said, and especially so with the Ammo Powers that seems to be highly contentious.



It makes no sense why each class can only use one type of ammo. It's just another type of material in the bullet or whatever.



I would prefer to go back to something closer to the first game, where you could mix mods or ammo types on a per weapon basis to your playing style and not be forced into using particular ammo for your class.

[Terror_K]

sinosleep wrote...

Out of curiosity, what do you have against this? To me Mass Effect was originally such a great homage to the sci-fi classics from the late 70's through to the early 90's. ME2 just feels too much like they moved towards a more modern approach, which I personally don't really like the style of. That's my basic reasoning there.

I probably should have just asked to clarify what you meant by the modern hollywood approach and instead I just made a ton of assumptions. I took it as ME 2 becoming too action heavy (more of a shooter), akin to say a Bruckheimer flick. And since I like the amped up combat I just marked it red.

It's hard to fully explain... it's very much a tone and style thing. The original game just reminded me of the sci-fi movies and shows of old, during what I'd consider to be sci-fi's golden age. The look, the syth music, the fact it wasn't afraid to take its time with things, the themes explored, etc. just felt very classic. ME2 just seems too modern; like it's all about style over substance, and the style is more flashy and trying to be full-on and action packed and in your face and a little juvenile and immature rather than mature. It also falls into the trap of failing at actually being dark and just going for this silly modern trend of being gritty and hard-edged and overly violent and grim but missing the true darkness that comes from tone and emotion. Having more violence, swearing, mature themes and dark visuals doesn't make something dark, it's the execution and how to tie it to emotions that does. And ME2 just felt like it was trying too hard to appeal to the mainstream by being like the rest of the "dark and gritty" stuff out there today rather than actually putting effort into really exploring dark themes. i.e. style over substance.

The amped up combat isn't a problem here so much as the overall style and presentation and how this shift has even warped the narrative a bit.

Modifié par Terror_K, 03 novembre 2010 - 04:42 .

[Iakus]

Terror_K wrote...
It's hard to fully explain... it's very much a tone and style thing. The original game just reminded me of the sci-fi movies and shows of old, during what I'd consider to be sci-fi's golden age. The look, the syth music, the fact it wasn't afraid to take its time with things, the themes explored, etc. just felt very classic. ME2 just seems too modern; like it's all about style over substance, and the style is more flashy and trying to be full-on and action packed and in your face and a little juvenile and immature rather than mature. It also falls into the trap of failing at actually being dark and just going for this silly modern trend of being gritty and hard-edged and overly violent and grim but missing the true darkness that comes from tone and emotion. Having more violence, swearing, mature themes and dark visuals doesn't make something dark, it's the execution and how to tie it to emotions that does. And ME2 just felt like it was trying too hard to appeal to the mainstream by being like the rest of the "dark and gritty" stuff out there today rather than actually putting effort into really exploring dark themes. i.e. style over substance.

The amped up combat isn't a problem here so much as the overall style and presentation and how this shift has even warped the narrative a bit.

To me, ME 2 felt far more "comic booky"  Over-the-top powerful characters. Flamboyant, impractical outfits doubling as "armor"  Science fiction going from "stretching the laws of physics" to "loose guidines at best"  The second act was less "dark" and more "angsty" 

[Terror_K]

iakus wrote...

To me, ME 2 felt far more "comic booky"  Over-the-top powerful characters. Flamboyant, impractical outfits doubling as "armor"  Science fiction going from "stretching the laws of physics" to "loose guidines at best"  The second act was less "dark" and more "angsty" 

Yeah, that covers it pretty well. It's like BioWare stopped caring about the integrity of their universe all of a sudden and decided to just say "to hell with realism if it looks badass and cool!!1" as well.

I can kind of forgive the over-the-top characters to a degree, simply because we really were supposed to be getting the best of the best for ME2. Though that makes me wonder what ME3 new companions will be like. Hopefully a little more real and down-to-earth like the ME1 ones for the most part, IMO. I know some people said they found the ME1 crew boring in comparison to ME2's ones, but I personally found them more real and likeable, rather than coming across as a little gimmicky and over-the-top badass like most of ME2's lot. Again though... given the premise, I can forgive it. But if ME3 comes along and I'm expected to believe that the average person is as badass as them, I'll definitely be more than rolling my eyes.

[-Skorpious-]

I was writing a similar "wishlist" for ME3 when I came across your thread. Although I didn't fully read it (It's 1 AM and I have work early tomorrow) you brought up points I never considered, and found that I agreed with most of them.

OP, I'll try to visit the forums tomorrow and give a more detailed post regarding your thread.

Modifié par -Skorpious-, 03 novembre 2010 - 05:15 .

[GodWood]

I agree with most if not all of this list.

The only thing I was really iffy on was your suggestions for combat but even then if it was changed to be like that I'd hardly be annoyed.

[-Skorpious-]

I know I said differently, but I couldn't help but post my respose sooner rather than later. Anyways, I'll follow a similar guideline set by sinosleep, albeit with a few changes -

Red means I disagree. Whenever I post a disagreeance, I'll explain my reasoning (in a different color mentioned below).
Orange means I don't necessarily disagree with the idea, but would rather Bioware devote their resources towards other goals.
Standard means I agree/accept the proposed idea.
Green means I absolutely love the suggested idea.
Blue text means the following is in my words

Terror_K wrote...

PRESENTATION

* Get back to the pseudo 80's sci-fi roots of ME1; less of the modern Hollywood approach of ME2.
* Bring back larger areas if possible. Find a way to cheat it if need be if framerates can be an issue. Adding vehicle sections or things such as the Illium car chase in LotSB can help make places seem bigger for instance. Elevators couldn't hurt, so long as they weren't too slow. Transition cutscenes perhaps, where you may see Shepard walking and talking with somebody as the next area loads.
* Places need to feel more open and branch out more than they did in ME2. Have multiple routes, and bits that lead you off elsewhere.
* I can't stress this one enough: give us proper combat and space capable outfits on people. No more having people run around in their civvies yet somehow getting the full benefits of kinetic shields and medi-gel dispensers. No more running around in dangerous environments affected by pressure, vaccuum, toxins, extreme temperatures, etc. with skin exposed and only a breather mask on, etc. It's stupid and shatters believability, pulling you right out of the experience. It's not cool, it's pathetic and moronic.
* A Fallout/DAO series of summary screens post-ending outlining how your Shepard had a mass effect (sorry... couldn't help myself) on others would be nice too... just FYI. It'd be a nice way to really cap off the trilogy and let you see where your choices led beyond the games.
*I don't want a summary screen - I want actual cutscenes.
* No more one-piece armours without removable helmets. A helmet toggle option and/or a DAO style cinematic removal of helmets (except when it makes sense to have them on). I'd personally prefer just the former really, so one can have the bonus the helmet of choice gives you along with the option of whether you see it or not, but so that it appears when it needs to. That's pretty much what it was in ME1 after all.
*While I agree with some of the points mentioned above, I am against the auto-removal of Shepard's helmet. I wouldn't mind if Bioware made the option a choice though, just as long as it is not mandatory.
* No more "Mission Complete" screens. Main missions should be summarised via discussing them on The Normandy with your crew, more akin to ME1, and then XP given out just after this for the mission. XP should also --as before-- be gained gradually and for your deeds in a clear, concise manner rather than as a meaningless lump sum with no context.
* Bring back elevators if possible instead of loading screens. This could also help make areas seem larger without them being larger if done right.
* Change the HUD back to something more like ME1's HUD, or something new. The current one is too vague and unclear. Bring back the radar and/or mini-map too.
* Get rid of ammo-powers, the concept is stupid and makes no sense. Make them mods again like they were originally.
* If we're going to have The Hammerhead (I'd prefer not personally... awful vehicle) or some kind of vehicle, we need the following: a proper HUD (along with shields, a health bar and radar), the ability to save in it and the ability to exit and enter when we like.
* No multiplayer. Just... just no.

COMPANIONS

* Companions should have friendship paths as well as romance ones, allowing them to open up even when they aren't romantically linked with you (e.g. how Jack's full story isn't seen unless you're a male who romances her).
* More dialogue on missions. I'd suggest a mix of things for this. Have it so you can interact with them on-mission ala ME1, and bring back the ME1 style observation places, though more in the style of the interactive ME2 ones over the proximity + "make interesting noise" ME1 ones. Have it so they have a few phrases about each major place. Have Dragon Age Origins style trigger points. Even a few small elevators convos here and there.
* Have certain quests that only open up when you take a character to a certain location, somewhat akin to KotOR. For example, if you go to Palaven and have Garrus with you a little quest opens up.
* Have some conversations between characters now and then, even sometimes without Shepard there. Have them somewhat like KotOR 2 whereby you return to The Normandy from a mission and before resuming on the ship you see the odd little cutscene between two companions, sometimes related to Shepard, sometimes not. Have these things skippable for those who don't want to see them.
* Companions should weigh in more on quests and interact with each other based on your combinations as well as Shepard. Again, look to DAO for how to do this well. Even little things such as acknowledgement of the other companion can make a big difference (i.e. instead of simply saying "I think we should side with them on this, Shepard" have them say, "I agree with Garrus, we should join these people for this.")
* Give companions both a civilian outfit and a combat outfit, just like Shepard (and like they sort of did in ME1). This eliminates the issue of them still having unique clothing while being able to go on dangerous missions without it seeming universe-shatteringly stupid. When more than half of the time you talk to them they're on the ship anyway, what's the real point in avoiding giving them armour to make them special. Besides, you can just give them their own special armour if we're still not going to be able to alter their outfits. That said...
* Bring back being able to alter their outfits. Maybe not loads of options. Even just a colour and pattern choice would be nice. That said, I'd be happy enough with just the above option of two outfits. Seriously... just eliminate the whole "running around in combat and dangerous environments unprotected in mere clothing" and I'll be happy enough merely with that.
* A few "this or that" companions would be nice in ME3. i.e. you can either have this companion, or that one, but not both. Playing as one of them, if only briefly, would be cool too. For example, you have to split into two teams and at one point you control Shepard and his/her team while at another point you control the second team.
* Companion loyalty needs to be more than just a binary state of either loyal or not. There should be a level of trust each companion has for Shepard. These, IMO, should also vary depending on who they are as well as what you do, and their past with you. For instance, if Garrus and Tali were in ME3 they'd automatically have a really high level of trust automatically, but it would be even higher if you got their loyalty in ME2 and even higher again if you'd done their ME1 quests (Dr. Saleon and Geth Data respectively) and yet even higher if you'd romanced either of them. Beyond romance interests, the next highest would be those from ME2 you gained the loyalty of, then the likes of Kaidan/Ashley and then those who survived ME2 but you didn't get loyalty for, then newbies for ME3 (unless they were knew as squaddies but not new as characters, such as Anderson, Shiala, etc. who would get a little more loyalty, depending on circumstances).
*Loyalty worked in ME2 because the point of the game was to build a team for a suicide mission. In ME3 Shepard's goals should be focused on dealing with the reaper invasion; not worrying about if  X has a certian level of trust built up.
* Remember how with Kaidan or Ashley you could ask them "what's your opinion of the last mission?" after each main quest? Let's have that back, but for every companion. It would also be nice if companions commented on each other as they joined, so you could have a "what do you thing of X?" type query as well.

DIALOGUE

* Have certain situations where Charm and Intimidate aren't always the "win" button. Have it so that while you pass it doesn't always lead to the same general outcome. Have it so that some NPCs react more favourably to one over the other, and visa versa. For example, a krogan bounty hunter would see an Intimidate response as you being strong and respect that, while mere words and a kinder, friendlier approach he may see as weakness. On the other side of things, a human enslaved by some batarians would react well to a kind word, but think somebody who is intimidating is a bully and close off.
* Dialogue choices related more to both your backgrounds, as well as your class. Shepard has a pre-service history and his/her claim to fame so it would be nice to have these referenced a little more now and then.
* Dialogue choices related to your class. Perhaps an Adept would know something about biotics another class wouldn't, while an Engineer would know about mechanics and electronics and a Soldier may know more history about Earth conflicts, including The First Contact war.
* More Paragon choices should blow up in your face. While they net you the Paragon points and give a generally better outcome initially, have them so that down the line one or two may actually lead to a lesser outcome. For example, letting a criminal live and sent off with a warning is generally more Paragon and simply executing them, but then perhaps the criminal doesn't listen and causes some problems for people down the road.
*While I may view several of the paragon routes as naive ones, that doesn't mean I support specifically targeting the "saviors of the galaxy" when deciding the outcome of a quest. Actually, that is a lie - I am ok with this idea as long as both paragon and renegade choices could possibly end badly. (depending on the quest that is) You already mentioned an example of a paragon choice gone wrong, so here is a renegade one - Two ambassador's, one a Volus and the other a Turian, are arguing over the specifications of a treaty. The paragon route would end with both sides finding a compromise, while the renegade speech reminds both ambassador's that they are hired professionals, and that they should start acting like it. However, this does nothing to resolve the conflict, instead merely postpone it.

COMBAT

* Bring back crouch.
* Keep universal cooldowns, but limit them to whatever type they are. i.e. a biotic attack affects only biotic powers, a tech ability affects only tech abilities, etc. Cooldowns need to be a little slower too; as it stands, it's barely offline long enough to make a difference.
* Thermal clips. IMO the damage has already been done here, but some can be saved if the universe starts to actually see how backwards things are and decides to incorporate a hybrid system.
*I vastly prefer Thermal clips over ME's mindless bullet spam at later levels. However, I do agree that a balance between both systems would be preferable to either system(and would help fix the lore at the same time).
* Not a fan of being forced to use weapons I don't want to. Either allow us to slot a particular gun type with nothing, or instead of limiting us to carrying one of each type simply give us a limited amount of areas to carry the weapons and allow us to carry what we want out of what's possible. If I can use shotguns, I should be able to carry two of them at the expense of another weapon if I like, or none of I prefer Pistols and SMGs. Though I'd advise that the hip slot should always only be able to carry a pistol... maybe an SMG.
* Use combat more to the advantage to create interesting situations and puzzles without deviating too far away from the main gameplay. Haestrom did this a little with its intense heat, and beyond that some of the gimmicks in some of the N7 missions (see below for more on that) could be better used as part of something larger in a main quest. Beyond that, look at Gears of War for inspiration on how to do this.

NON-COMBAT GAMEPLAY

* Bring back Hacking and Decrypting as skills for tech-based classes. That said, to counter the issue of needing a tech to do these things, give alternatives to other classes. Give soldiers a bash attack and biotics a biotic pulse for containers, at the risk of damaging contents. Beyond this make the timer slower for tech-based classes with less objects to deal with, simply making it faster and simpler for them.
* Bring back armour classes similar to ME1, but give them additional pros and cons. Heavier armour protects more, but at the cost of speed and weapon-switching time, while light armour offers less protection but makes you faster. Medium armour is the middle ground. Don't make players find different kinds, simply let the player choose in their customisation which type you want of the three. Keep it class restricted ala ME1, though allow other classes not capable of wearing heavy be able to buy the ability as training using credits.
* Skill trees should branch off into two more diverse paths about halfway through, rather than at the very end branching off to two barely-different alternatives. For example, a biotic attack called Biotic Wave that is a simple shot of biotic energy to do small damage could split off into Shockwave and Biotic Orb, while another biotic power could split into either Lift or Pull. The player should then also be able to travel down both paths if they like, but at the cost of more points.
* Planet exploration should return. I'd doubt they'd go back to The Mako, though I would prefer it. The Hammerhead either needs a massive overhaul or needs to go; we need a proper exploration vehicle that's also combat capable that would make sense, not a zippy little platforming thing designed specifically for arcadey little games on overly designed worlds. If the UNC worlds were fewer and weren't as steep and had more intersting content on them I don't see The Mako being too much of an issue: just tweak the suspension and overall bounciness a little and it should be fine. In either case, be they UNC worlds or something akin to Overlord's main hub area or some of both, we need some proper exploration back.
* Planet scanning. Here to stay I believe. If that's the case, it needs some tweaking, though I was never as bothered by it as most were to be honest (funnily enough, considering how much of ME2 I didn't like). I'm not sure what exactly needs done here. Make it too easy and it becomes pointless... too hard and/or repetitive and it becomes annoying.
* There needs to be better mini-games overall. The current ones are too simple, even without making the timer slower later on with the upgrade. Alpha Protocol had some good examples of how to do this as its hacking, decryption and unlocking mini-games were all better done: not too easy or long, but also just challenging enough to make them not a cake walk.
* The Renegade isn't supposed to just be a jerkwad, he's supposed to be the one who does what needs to be done to get the job done as fast as possible. This somehow needs to be reflected more and better.

INVENTORY AND ITEMS

* An inventory system doesn't need to come back, but there does need to be more inventory and more meaningful inventory overall.
* More weapons overall. ME1 had too many, ME2 far too few. If we had all the ME2 DLC items along with all the ME2 items in ME3 it would be about right, so I pretty much suggest that.
* Visible stats on weapons and armour. Simple as that.
* Armour should act like armour again. As it stands it doesn't even protect, and is more akin to wearing a bunch of rings or amulets rather than armour. To avoid the whole "but I'm forced to wear a style I dislike for max protection" just make sure that the outer plates are customisible and that it's the underlay and material that determines the protection.
* Bring back weapon mods. Not necessarily all the same ones as in ME1, but in some form. I'd like to see things like Combat Optics back though, but other things such as laser sights, scopes, thermal clip storage, etc. as well. Could be bought, found or created. These need to be limited so the player has to choose and can't just slot everything, so as to avoid...
* The research/upgrade system. Should remain, but needs an overhaul. Should no longer be able to upgrade everything to max any more as this is basically God-modding. This is how guns should basically be leveled (i.e. instead of having tiers I to X ala ME1, you upgrade from I to X using research, and only have to once for each type of weapon). Use this to make mods for weapons and armour.
* Bring back omni-tools and biotic amps. Have fewer of them, but have each one different in its benefits and weaknesses. Faster cooldown for less damage, or more damage for slower cooldown, or a more balanced one, etc. No one should be clearly superior to the others. These should also be able to be upgraded via the research system. Perhaps a single, specific boosting mod could go into each one too.
* The Normandy. More sprucing up would be nice, though I'd like to see this not as high a priority as it was in ME2. If you have the time things like "trophies" and other momentos from certain missions to keep in your quarters would be good. Beyond this, I'd also like to de-Cerberize it in ME3 if possible. Let me give the SR2 a more SR1 style paintjob, or even something more independent. I just want rid of the Cerberus decals in some way now.

MAIN QUESTS + STORY/NARRATIVE

* This is the main one: More meaningful consequences. Make my decisions actually feel important. Real, different outcomes too, none of these weak substitutes where the outcome is basically the same and only the character changes or one or two pieces of dialogue change, but the rest is identical. The Council decision should have changed Council space a lot, but didn't. Wrex being or not being on Tuchanka should have greatly changed it, but it didn't. Kaidan or Ashley surviving should have changed more than simply who met you on Horizon, but it didn't. I believe the point is made.
* Councilor Udina is canon. Please at least give some kind of explanation for those of us who chose Anderson beyond a forced retcon. Have the rest of The Council demote him or the Alliance ask him to step aside for Udina because they feel Udina better represnts them or something... just don't leave it like it is now with nothing else.
* More alternate branches on quests as a whole. Noveria in the original game is the example of how to do this: half a dozen ways to get the garage pass at Port Hanshan, then other alternatives at Peak 15 itself. ME2's quests were too linear beyond the odd dialogue choice towards the end and pretty much always ended in the same result... ME3 needs more choices, more alternatives and more outcomes. Relating to my notes above in the DIALOGUE section, there could be different paths for Paragons and Renegades even.
* Narrative reasons to do sidequests, particularly if this is another "race against time" style story. Give us a natural pause in the narrative where somebody says to you "before you proceed it'll take some time to do this" or something, then the player can choose to either skip straight to the next day (or week, or whatever) or use the time to go and do sidequests. This way the flow of the narrative isn't interrupted for those who want a logical reason to do sidequests, while those who don't and just want to get on with it can, but can always do sidequests later too if they so chose.
* If this is a "race against time" story reflect that more some how. Make things harder for players who do more sidequests before the final part by having more enemies because they've had more time to gather their forces, or have more worlds fall to The Reapers if you take too long or something. If the game is open-ended and you provide the right narrative reasons to do sidequests and the player chooses to go about things smartly then they should still be able to do everything without being too punished. We saw a little of this with you wasting time after the crew had been taken in ME2, so it would be nice to see more along these lines.
* Like ME2, I'd like the game to be open-ended if possible, so you can play after the credits. Not just for DLC purposes, but for special post-game content you can only get after the main story is complete. Things like news reports on your exploits, people acknowledging them via dialogue. I'd also like to steal an idea from Oblivion: the statue you get of yourself based on your actual character. A statue of Shepard should appear on The Presidium or somewhere else at the end of it all, based on your own Shepard's face and armour and everything.

SIDE QUESTS

* Side quests are side quests for a reason: to get us away from the main story for a little while. Have less ones related to the main quest and more independent ones if possible.
*I believe that sidequests  should tie into the main plot in some way. It seems odd if, despite the tremendous threat the reapers pose, Shepard is busy scavaging credits so a Quarian can buy him/herself a shuttle to bring back to the Flotilla. Not all sidequests have to follow this formula though. If an Alliance cruiser is hijacked by a group of mercs, Shepard could rush to the rescue (as long as he/she doesn't have to go out of his/her way to do so).
* Less fetch quests, or more involved ones. For example, Rupert's ingredients quest would have been more involved and deeper if there were more things to get from it, such as perhaps getting quarian food for Tali from The Migrant Fleet or krogan chow from Tuchanka as well, etc.
* Sidequests should have more unique areas rather than have us trip over the items related to them as we go on our journey anyway. For example, the quest on Tuchanka for the krogan mechanic had us trip over what he needed on Mordin's loyalty quest. Same goes for the Salarian data and the missing trinkets on Illium. If we're going to get sidequests at least have them take more of an effort to do. Make us go off-world for them, or at least have to divert somewhere we wouldn't naturally go perhaps. Compare the aforementioned ones to the optional Zhu's Hope stuff that actually had you go to a separate area off the beaten path of the main quest.
* Locations: I'd like a mix of a few ME1 style UNC worlds, a few ME2 style N7 worlds and a few Overlord main hub style worlds. ME2 missed out on that feeling of lonely, desolate, unexplored vastness that had an impressive, quaint beauty to it that the UNC worlds gave us and this made the universe feel small and populated. N7 missions were better designed, but a little too much so, feeling over-designed, small and this made the universe in ME2 feel even smaller again. Overlord's area felt like a good blend of the two, but some areas still should feel more compact and others more empty, hence why a mix of all three would fit best, IMO. Having a mix would eliminate most of the issues each style had too, UNC planets not being so bad because there's less of them and more variety on the other worlds, and N7 style places not making the universe feel small since it has UNC ones to off-set that flaw.
* Presentation needs to improve from the N7 ones. See the remaining points in this section for examples:
* Shepard and companions should actually speak now and then, have some dialogue choices and even some moral choices.
* The stories need to be more interesting and rely less on gimmicks (though many of these gimmicks could work as part of bigger missions. Isolated they're gimmicky, but when part of something larger they'll work better).
* Less shooting nameless mercs and collecting datapads, more interesting characters who will speak, be they antagonists, victims, quest-givers, witnesses, etc.
* More proper set-ups and less emails and merely scanning random planets for anomalies. Bring back Hackett or some other Alliance or Council quest-giver, and even others who simply want help. More along the lines of Nassana Dantius, Helena Blake, Garoth, Admiral Kahoku, etc.
* Another quest or two related to Shepard's backgrounds please. Either related or unrelated to the ME1 ones.

Modifié par -Skorpious-, 03 novembre 2010 - 06:48 .

[ashwind]

AntiChri5 wrote...

I couldn't agree more with half of what you said, and couldn't disagree more with the rest.

Where does that leave us?

The reality. Everyone of us has our own little "Perfect ME3". To the ME2 team, ME2 is quite perfect and many of their customers agree  hence winning them the golden-joysticks award. 

If ME3 were made exactly like the OP suggested, I will stop the game and set the forum ablaze the moment I meet the first elevator (no, God himself cannot convinced me to take the elevator back thanks to free will) but that is just me right - nothing wrong about folks who like the elevator.

Then probably I will set the forum ablaze again when I see the medieval light, medium, heavy armor. That is as illogical as ammo-power but more importantly ammo-power is functional while armor variation is not. Again, that is just me...

Changes made to small things like armor, cooldowns, etc. has far-reaching effects on gameplay as a whole. It is not as simple as putting all the "perfect" ideas together = perfect game. All the variables; everything, the pacing, the feel, the flow, the story, the presentation, the music, etc. needs to be in perfect harmony to produce a perfect game. The only problem is we can never agree on the variables.

I personally would rather Bioware concentrate on the ultimate ending story for ME3 rather than diverting resources to tweaking minor things. It is the end of the trilogy and nothing to me is more important than how the story ends - keep ME3 largely like ME2 if they must but please make sure the ending is not another "Witch Hunt DLC".

Haven said that, I do applaud the OP for making such a long list. Much thoughts has been put into producing the list.

[Lunatic LK47]

ashwind wrote...

If ME3 were made exactly like the OP suggested, I will stop the game and set the forum ablaze the moment I meet the first elevator (no, God himself cannot convinced me to take the elevator back thanks to free will) but that is just me right - nothing wrong about folks who like the elevator.

Then probably I will set the forum ablaze again when I see the medieval light, medium, heavy armor. That is as illogical as ammo-power but more importantly ammo-power is functional while armor variation is not. Again, that is just me...

Changes made to small things like armor, cooldowns, etc. has far-reaching effects on gameplay as a whole. It is not as simple as putting all the "perfect" ideas together = perfect game. All the variables; everything, the pacing, the feel, the flow, the story, the presentation, the music, etc. needs to be in perfect harmony to produce a perfect game. The only problem is we can never agree on the variables.

This, X1 million.

I personally would rather Bioware concentrate on the ultimate ending story for ME3 rather than diverting resources to tweaking minor things. It is the end of the trilogy and nothing to me is more important than how the story ends - keep ME3 largely like ME2 if they must but please make sure the ending is not another "Witch Hunt DLC".

This. I want ME3 to be the be all end all "cascading consequences" BioWare was hyping up since Day 1. If they fall short because of the "stand-alone" direction they went with, I'm already not buying any more of their games after all of the fiascos with ME2.

[Terror_K]

ashwind wrote...

If ME3 were made exactly like the OP suggested, I will stop the game and set the forum ablaze the moment I meet the first elevator (no, God himself cannot convinced me to take the elevator back thanks to free will) but that is just me right - nothing wrong about folks who like the elevator.

That's fair enough. I just found elevators to be more immersive than loading screens, which IMO were boring and took me out of the game. If the elevators were faster (though in the PC version they weren't that bad to be honest) I doubt they'd cause too many people issues. What's the harm in elevators that are just as fast as a loading screen?

Then probably I will set the forum ablaze again when I see the medieval light, medium, heavy armor. That is as illogical as ammo-power but more importantly ammo-power is functional while armor variation is not. Again, that is just me...

It does kind of make sense though. A heavier armour would offer more protection since its thicker, but would be bulkier and heavier, while a lighter armour would not protect as much but allow a person to move more freely. It works with Fallout okay and that's a sci-fi game too. The problem with ME1's use of L,M and H armour was that it was never quite explained how only a Soldier could wear Heavy Armour beyond the basic logic that perhaps a pure-class soldier is a bit stronger, hence why giving reasoning as to why to choose one type over the other, and the ability for other classes to still get training to use it. Still, this isn't what I'd call a high-priority request by any means... just an idea to add a little more depth and choice.

Thinking about it more, perhaps rather than having armour classes it would be best to implement this through armour pieces and upgrades. For instance you can equip armour pieces that protects you more or get an armour upgrade that increases protection, but doing so also has a penalty to movement speed. That way a player has to choose a type of armour plating that's thicker and better protected vs. a thinner material that may increase their movement speed or merely not reduce it, but not protect as much.

I'm thinking of updating this as people discuss things and breed new ideas and ways of doing things, so I'll probably change my concept based on this. Thanks... even if you don't agree with my revised idea any more than the original.

Changes made to small things like armor, cooldowns, etc. has far-reaching effects on gameplay as a whole. It is not as simple as putting all the "perfect" ideas together = perfect game. All the variables; everything, the pacing, the feel, the flow, the story, the presentation, the music, etc. needs to be in perfect harmony to produce a perfect game. The only problem is we can never agree on the variables.

I honestly think most things we got in ME1 had a place in Mass Effect, even if they didn't quite work in the form they were presented. The honest truth is, I miss a lot of these things from ME2, and I feel that some of them could not only return and add something to the game, but return in even deeper and better ways than they did before.

I personally would rather Bioware concentrate on the ultimate ending story for ME3 rather than diverting resources to tweaking minor things. It is the end of the trilogy and nothing to me is more important than how the story ends - keep ME3 largely like ME2 if they must but please make sure the ending is not another "Witch Hunt DLC".

Haven said that, I do applaud the OP for making such a long list. Much thoughts has been put into producing the list.

I can understand that, and I agree too. Some things are more important than others, and making ME3 the perfect ending is definitely one of the most important ones.

[Terror_K]

Okay, I've updated the thread with a couple of clarifications and addendums. Beyond changing my idea on armour classes, the main one is the following addition:-

* Persuasion needs to be done better in ME3 than it was in ME2, which discouraged proper roleplaying by having your level of Paragon/Renegade determining your ability to perform said actions and beyond that only tied it into a combat skill with persuasion stuff tacked on, which resulted in players often either having to be pure Paragon or Renegade or suffer not having the points to perform actions, discouraging more neutral players and those who liked to mix and match. Either return the separate Charm/Intimidate skills ala ME1, or (preferably) have a single Persuasion skill that the player must invest points in to perform either action.

Modifié par Terror_K, 03 novembre 2010 - 11:06 .

[Captain_Obvious_au]

Generally agree with you here Terror, which isn't a surprise. A lot of it is similar to my own ideas for ME3 (in my sig) though you came up with a few I hadn't thought of, like the KotOR2-style squadmate convos.



I'd also like to see squadmates romancing each other. Say unless you go the romance path with a squadmate, s/he gets romantic with another squaddie, kinda like how in ME1, if you're not going the romance route with Ash, her little sister says Kaiden is cute instead of Shep.

[Nightwriter]

I want customizable casual outfits.

Why is this not on the list. Why. I must have it. I must.

[Terror_K]

Nightwriter wrote...

I want customizable casual outfits.

Why is this not on the list. Why. I must have it. I must.

You mean the ability to colour them, ala the armours? That'd be neat. Personally I'd just be happy with a bigger selection, especially less Cerberus stuff (thank you altered Coalesced.ini file)

[Getorex]

Terror_K wrote...

iakus wrote...

To me, ME 2 felt far more "comic booky"  Over-the-top powerful characters. Flamboyant, impractical outfits doubling as "armor"  Science fiction going from "stretching the laws of physics" to "loose guidines at best"  The second act was less "dark" and more "angsty" 

Yeah, that covers it pretty well. It's like BioWare stopped caring about the integrity of their universe all of a sudden and decided to just say "to hell with realism if it looks badass and cool!!1" as well.

I can kind of forgive the over-the-top characters to a degree, simply because we really were supposed to be getting the best of the best for ME2. Though that makes me wonder what ME3 new companions will be like. Hopefully a little more real and down-to-earth like the ME1 ones for the most part, IMO. I know some people said they found the ME1 crew boring in comparison to ME2's ones, but I personally found them more real and likeable, rather than coming across as a little gimmicky and over-the-top badass like most of ME2's lot. Again though... given the premise, I can forgive it. But if ME3 comes along and I'm expected to believe that the average person is as badass as them, I'll definitely be more than rolling my eyes.

I will step in and simply copy and paste your statement here as my own. You done sayed it all reel good.