262 réponses à ce sujet

[Daerog]

The Harrowing is not set up to prove you will resist demons, it is to prove you can resist demons. Which is why mages are still regulated even after the Harrowing.

So far I actually approve or at least can understand the Chantry's actions except for the EMs on the Tevinter Imperium.

[Aermas]

Riona45 wrote...

Aermas wrote...

An apostate no matter how kind & peaceful is walking around with a target on the back of his head, any mundane is going to ostracize him & burn him as a witch, & any demon is welcome to jump his meat because he hasn't been taught to defend himself from demonic possession.

Being an apostate mage doesn't mean you have no training.  Bethany and Mage!Hawke are apostate mages who were trained by their apostate father.  Also, David Gaider has stated that not all untrained mages wind up being possessed.  Yes, it happens, but we have it from the devs that it doesn't happen all the time.

Well of course not every single apostate is possessed I never said that. & any functioning mage has to have training or they will be killed one way or another soon enough. Look to my previous examples.

[Bruddajakka]

I'm not being petty or illogical. Templer's consider any one who's possessed by a being from a Fade regardless of whether it's a demon or a spirit as an Abomination.

"Although spirit warriors employ magical abilities, they are not mages; instead, they flirt with inhabitants of the Fade who agree to augment mortal abilities in exchange for a glimpse of the physical world. Naturally, the Chantry's templars rarely acknowledge that distinction. "

Which makes Wynne an Abomination in the Templer's, and the Chantry's eyes. Which is why she's so quick to go with you after you clear out the tower.

Modifié par Bruddajakka, 03 novembre 2010 - 06:49 .

[deuce985]

I'll never help the Chantry and their false teachings. They try to prey on people's weakness who have to turn to religion as a means to govern their life. What right does the Chantry and the Templars have to label people apostates? I say if they want to practice Blood Magic, do it. The magic is very powerful. Who cares about the history of it? Most likely it is exaggerated by the Chantry as a way of making people follow their laws and to gain power over the weak. Leliana was a great example of someone who was desperate to find answers in her life and tried to use a false god/religion to better her life. She was weak.



I say plunge the lands in darkness! No way they touch my sister.

[Riona45]

Aermas wrote...
Well of course not every single apostate is possessed I never said that.

You didn't say it, you just implied it.

[Aermas]

Abominations are mages possessed by a demon, Wynne is a mage whose in a sympathetic relationship with a noble spirit that is letting her live & would leave if she wanted it to.

[Herr Uhl]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

So far I actually approve or at least can understand the Chantry's actions except for the EMs on the Tevinter Imperium.

You can't understand that? Their prophet gave her life in fighting the old Tevinter Imperium, and the changes made seem to take it back to the old mageocracy piece by piece.

[Daerog]

Aermas wrote...

Abominations are mages possessed by a demon, Wynne is a mage whose in a sympathetic relationship with a noble spirit that is letting her live & would leave if she wanted it to.

I don't think anyone is disputing that, but if a templar found out about Wynne being the host of a foreign spirit... well... unless someone with more authority steps in, she will likely be confronted and taken to the tower for evaluation (if the templar notices she is not a threat, not all templars kill on sight as has been mentioned) or she will be attacked and killed.

[Riona45]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

I don't think anyone is disputing that, but if a templar found out about Wynne being the host of a foreign spirit... well... unless someone with more authority steps in, she will likely be confronted and taken to the tower for evaluation (if the templar notices she is not a threat, not all templars kill on sight as has been mentioned) or she will be attacked and killed.

Right, just because we know there's nothing "evil" about Wynne's situation doesn't mean people in the setting would be as discerning as we are.  I'm not sure if the typical person in Thedas even knows that there's a difference between a demon and a benevolent spirit.

Modifié par Riona45, 03 novembre 2010 - 06:57 .

[Daerog]

Herr Uhl wrote...

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

So far I actually approve or at least can understand the Chantry's actions except for the EMs on the Tevinter Imperium.

You can't understand that? Their prophet gave her life in fighting the old Tevinter Imperium, and the changes made seem to take it back to the old mageocracy piece by piece.

Ya, but an EM wasn't necessary, just more diplomacy. The other EMs were for defensive purposes, the one on the Tevinter Imperium was a knee jerk reaction. I didn't mean to imply that I didn't understand it, but I guess I did.

[Aermas]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

Aermas wrote...

Abominations are mages possessed by a demon, Wynne is a mage whose in a sympathetic relationship with a noble spirit that is letting her live & would leave if she wanted it to.

I don't think anyone is disputing that, but if a templar found out about Wynne being the host of a foreign spirit... well... unless someone with more authority steps in, she will likely be confronted and taken to the tower for evaluation (if the templar notices she is not a threat, not all templars kill on sight as has been mentioned) or she will be attacked and killed.

Templars will only attack those that attack them, or mages that are already proven hostile. So Wynne would be taken to the Tower & found to be in full control of her faculties, & released

[Aermas]

deuce985 wrote...

I'll never help the Chantry and their false teachings. They try to prey on people's weakness who have to turn to religion as a means to govern their life. What right does the Chantry and the Templars have to label people apostates? I say if they want to practice Blood Magic, do it. The magic is very powerful. Who cares about the history of it? Most likely it is exaggerated by the Chantry as a way of making people follow their laws and to gain power over the weak. Leliana was a great example of someone who was desperate to find answers in her life and tried to use a false god/religion to better her life. She was weak.

I say plunge the lands in darkness! No way they touch my sister.

My goodness you have a lot of fanatical views, Blood magic is forbidden because it allows mages to ENSLAVE others, no that's not evil.

[Riona45]

Aermas wrote...

My goodness you have a lot of fanatical views...

Let me get you your fainting couch, princess.

[Daerog]

Aermas wrote...

Templars will only attack those that attack them, or mages that are already proven hostile. So Wynne would be taken to the Tower & found to be in full control of her faculties, & released

Ehhhh... depends on the templar of course. Some have been shown to be overzealous. I haven't heard that the Penny Arcade comics are non-canon, but the first one does show a templar killing a random apostate or something.

Oh, wait, I haven't read the comics but I heard ***SPOILER*** that one woman who ran from the tower was killed when the templars caught up with her.

However, as long as Wynne constantly reports to a chantry, it is likely that she will just be brought in since she isn't resisting the Chantry or Circle.

[Daerog]

Aermas wrote...

deuce985 wrote...

I'll never help the Chantry and their false teachings. They try to prey on people's weakness who have to turn to religion as a means to govern their life. What right does the Chantry and the Templars have to label people apostates? I say if they want to practice Blood Magic, do it. The magic is very powerful. Who cares about the history of it? Most likely it is exaggerated by the Chantry as a way of making people follow their laws and to gain power over the weak. Leliana was a great example of someone who was desperate to find answers in her life and tried to use a false god/religion to better her life. She was weak.

I say plunge the lands in darkness! No way they touch my sister.

My goodness you have a lot of fanatical views, Blood magic is forbidden because it allows mages to ENSLAVE others, no that's not evil.

Just a note: Some people RP when jumping on these forums, either the person does have extreme views on a fictional faith or this is the viewpoint of his/her character(s).

[Bruddajakka]

Aermas wrote...

Templars will only attack those that attack them, or mages that are already proven hostile. So Wynne would be taken to the Tower & found to be in full control of her faculties, & released

Actually no they don't. It's said many many times in game that some Templers will flat out just kill a Mage regardless of whether or not their hostile. Hell some Templers take pleasure in it. And it doesn't matter if their a child or not.

[Aermas]

Bruddajakka wrote...

Aermas wrote...

Templars will only attack those that attack them, or mages that are already proven hostile. So Wynne would be taken to the Tower & found to be in full control of her faculties, & released

Actually no they don't. It's said many many times in game that some Templers will flat out just kill a Mage regardless of whether or not their hostile. Hell some Templers take pleasure in it. And it doesn't matter if their a child or not.

Kind of like a abomination will slaughter a whole bunch of innocents for no reason?
& Saying "No they don't" is assigning a small groups opinions to the opinions of the whole

Modifié par Aermas, 03 novembre 2010 - 07:09 .

[Riona45]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...
Ehhhh... depends on the templar of course. Some have been shown to be overzealous. I haven't heard that the Penny Arcade comics are non-canon, but the first one does show a templar killing a random apostate or something.

I haven't heard that they're non-canon either, and I understand (having read some of the PA articles) that the PA guys worked with Bioware and the DA lore, so it's hard to argue that it's an inauthentic representation of what some templars are like.

[deuce985]

Aermas wrote...

deuce985 wrote...

I'll never help the Chantry and their false teachings. They try to prey on people's weakness who have to turn to religion as a means to govern their life. What right does the Chantry and the Templars have to label people apostates? I say if they want to practice Blood Magic, do it. The magic is very powerful. Who cares about the history of it? Most likely it is exaggerated by the Chantry as a way of making people follow their laws and to gain power over the weak. Leliana was a great example of someone who was desperate to find answers in her life and tried to use a false god/religion to better her life. She was weak.

I say plunge the lands in darkness! No way they touch my sister.

My goodness you have a lot of fanatical views, Blood magic is forbidden because it allows mages to ENSLAVE others, no that's not evil.

Not everyone who practices Blood Magic is "evil". That is where the Templar's are wrong. This is almost like the Salem Witch trials where a bunch of little kids were running around claiming the devil and these witches were controlling them. Many innocents were burned. Is it not conceivable that maybe Blood Magic can be used for the better of life too? You take the risk of admonations by practicing it but doesn't all Mages, even ones who don't practice Blood Magic take this risk too?

I don't see how that gives Templars the right to go around and label my sister as a apostate just because she practices what they consider "fordibben". It does not make her "evil". Is Morrigan evil? What about Flemeth? Were her tales not exaggerated?

Modifié par deuce985, 03 novembre 2010 - 07:09 .

[Aermas]

Apostate =/= Blood Mage

Blood Mage =/= Abomination



If you think mages should be free to roam around do you also think we should give M-16's to everyone including four year olds?

[Riona45]

Aermas wrote...
If you think mages should be free to roam around do you also think we should give M-16's to everyone including four year olds?

Now you sound like you're just trying to instigate something.

[ErichHartmann]

Aermas wrote...
If you think mages should be free to roam around do you also think we should give M-16's to everyone including four year olds?

Hmm? Do M-16's exist in Dragon Age?  If not...stick to the lore. 

[deuce985]

Well, my character had Blood Magic spec and I was a good character. I saved the lands of Ferelden too! I proved the Templar wrong...:-)

[Aermas]

Riona45 wrote...

Aermas wrote...
If you think mages should be free to roam around do you also think we should give M-16's to everyone including four year olds?

Now you sound like you're just trying to instigate something.

No, this is a rational comparison of the matters at hand, you insinuating I was a princess is instigation.

[Daerog]

deuce985 wrote...

I don't see how that gives Templars the right to go around and label my sister as a apostate just because she practices what they consider "fordibben". It does not make her "evil". Is Morrigan evil? What about Flemeth? Were her tales not exaggerated?

Not touching the Blood Magic debate, I've said my piece many times before.

Just to clarify, being labelled an apostate does not mean that the mage practices forbidden magic or is necessarily killed on sight. An apostate is just a mage outside the Circle. A maleficarum (spell check?) is a mage who practices blood magic and is supposed to be killed on sight, normally, but I would think they would just Tranquil Jowan if you hand him over to the Circle.