539 réponses à ce sujet

[upsettingshorts]

maxernst wrote...

And presumably investing a lot of time in thinking about good tactical schemes.  I think it would make the game very hard for casual players.

I'm not arguing for abandoning either path - at least not in this case, by implication my "USE AGE OF CONAN MECHANICS" rant however does, but that's a different thread. 

I'm just glad that in the case of Dragon Age both options are viable, and developer statements that they are trying to improve Tactics in DA:2 strike me as encouraging. 

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 05 novembre 2010 - 03:08 .

[the_one_54321]

Well you're not required to do it. It's just there if you like it.

Also keep in mind that writing code party healing and/or buffing can free up your hands for a lot of the more combat oriented stuff. It has other applications beyond playing the game for you. In a lot of ways it make your party work more efficiently and get your dungeon crawl moving much more smoothly.

[Monica83]

FPS are for casual players

SPort games are for casual player

Beat em up are for casual player

When an rpg becomes for casual player its not an rpg

[the_one_54321]

And it's a long pop fly right out of left field! Is anyone going to go for the catch....

[Harid]

Beginning to get tired of people using the word casual when they mean lazy or stupid.

I don't know how to play chess, at all. I am no tactical god.

I can make reasonable, well designed tactics in this game. If you don't want to take to effort to make tactics, you can use the default game tactics.  And get by fine.

Modifié par Harid, 05 novembre 2010 - 03:11 .

[soteria]

Given the quality of AI, I insist that we use the word mind very loosely here. That being said, I understand the principle of it - I just don't understand why it is fun.

Because the AI is only as bad as you make it. My first playthrough I certainly had a lot of trouble with the AI doing stupid stuff, but after I learned the sytem I never had any trouble with it. I don't even use the better tactics mod.

I just set up a few basic targeting commands (usually to have companions pair up and/or attack nearest) and tell them to use certain abilities like Flurry, Sunder Arms and Winter's Grasp as long as they have >50% stamina. That way they kill pretty quickly but don't waste all their stamina or blow clutch abilities like pommel strike.

[ErichHartmann]

Monica83 wrote...

FPS are for casual players
SPort games are for casual player
Beat em up are for casual player
When an rpg becomes for casual player its not an rpg

Do you play multiplayer games with PVP?  I guarantee they require a higher degree of skill than any singly player game when competing against real people.  And RPGs can be accessible to more casual play through difficulty sliders.   

[upsettingshorts]

Monica83 wrote...

FPS are for casual players

Casual shooter players are free kills for hardcore shooter players.

Monica83 wrote...

SPort games are for casual player

Casual sports gamers get annihilated in multiplayer before the game is half over.

Monica83 wrote...

Beat em up are for casual player

Casual beat-em-up players are button mashers that get destroyed by people who know how to chain combos.

Monica83 wrote...

When an rpg becomes for casual player its not an rpg

When you start making good points, will you cease to be Monica83?  Stop making casual arguments.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 05 novembre 2010 - 03:16 .

[the_one_54321]

And someone made a dive for the catch... he's throwing it home! Will it make it.....

[Onyx Jaguar]

ANd someone predicted the appearance of the Onyx and it was so. Unfortunately he forgot to bring his spikes so was immediately tackled by the security and the play was called dead

[Monica83]

This is why a great rpg must be complex have a great plot and have full information of the world of you are playng..

Baldur's gate saga (A great true RPG)



Planescape torment (another great true rpg)



Icewind dale saga ( another great true rpg)



Neverwinternights (Brilliant and good rpg)



Neverwinter nights 2 (good the base great the first expansion)



Dragon age origins (a good rpg)



Those game are not suggested for casual players



Rpg (or whell something similiar to them) for casual player:

Fallout 3 (i prefear the old ones but its a good game but good for casual player)



Elder scroll obliovion (weak plot weak dialogues actiony combat system for me not a true rpg but mostly an action rpg 70% action 30% rpg nice for casual player)



Fable (fake rpg awesome for casual players)



Mass effect 2 (mostly a bad shooter with a nice story but way fare to be an rpg its mostly a interactive movie but nothing more)

[soteria]

FPS are for casual players

SPort games are for casual player

Beat em up are for casual player

When an rpg becomes for casual player its not an rpg

Never played a shooter online, have you? The only thing casual about those guys is the way they'll casually kill you again and again. Also, I'd like to introduce you to the "Casual" difficulty on DA:O. I've seen many players comment that they only play on the easiest difficulty *coughcasualcough* because they're more interested in RP.

And it's a long pop fly right out of left field! Is anyone going to go for the catch....

Yep.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Planescape Torment wasn't complex from a gameplay standpoint, it wasn't that different from an Adventure game emphasized more heavily than BG



Also you have no idea what the word casual means so I suggest you stop using the term

[addiction21]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Planescape Torment wasn't complex from a gameplay standpoint, it wasn't that different from an Adventure game emphasized more heavily than BG

Also you have no idea what the word casual means so I suggest you stop using the term

Not going to happen. I tried telling her the same thing with the word static.

Also casual does not mean lacking in intelligence so I do not see how its impossible for a "casual gamer" to grasp these so called complex rpgs your speaking about monica.

[soteria]

Do you play multiplayer games with PVP? I guarantee they require a higher degree of skill than any singly player game when competing against real people. And RPGs can be accessible to more casual play through difficulty sliders.

I'd take that a step further and say that RPGs (particularly Bioware RPGs) are some of the easiest games out there. Even compared to single player games... the single player campaign for Halo or MW2 is brutally hard on the highest difficulty setting, for example. There's a reason for it, of course: Bioware focuses on character development, dialogue, and story. Other games tend to focus more on gameplay.

[upsettingshorts]

Indeed, anyone holding up DA:O or even Baldur's Gate as a hard, complex game should go try out Hearts of Iron III. Bring Kleenex for your tears. That's a game with a steep learning curve.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 05 novembre 2010 - 03:29 .

[Monica83]

This is why a great rpg must be complex have a great plot and have full information of the world of you are playng..

Baldur's gate saga (A great true RPG)



Planescape torment (another great true rpg)

[upsettingshorts]

Monica83 wrote...

must be complex

Define complexity.  Use examples.

[Monica83]

Sorry for double post i have a bad network today...



When i see complex.. i mean many factor plot.. gameplay.. and other...



And yes i play also online shooters or beat em up... and yes i know what is it a casual player..

[Onyx Jaguar]

If it is based solely on story complexity and information then Xenosaga and MGS4 were the most hardcore games ever made in the history of mankind.

[upsettingshorts]

If you're playing online shooters casually, rest assured there are hardcore players, somewhere, making fun of folks just like you. Not so nice, is it?

[Monica83]

Complexity about:



Plot: Bg and planescape have beatyfull complex storyline

Gameplay: Games that have many many skills many many spell a well done stats system with will save fortitude save and other little stuff to consider than swing a sword or shot in the head of someone.. Tactical Approach for example in Bg2 there are many creature with different powers that can kill all your team with a single move..so you have to think to a strategy what spells use to protect yourself what spell use to defeat the ennemy magical defense..



a non rpg example... compare the past sim city with sim city society.. in fact sim city society its too simple and poor of feature to be a complex simulation and gestional game this is nice for a casual player but not for an hardcore player..



Stuff: Baldurs gate 2 its a nice example you have a huge number to ennemy to meet much dungeon total different to eachother to explore.. Huge number of spell always different from eachother nice base classes and nice variations to select race selection a great companion interaction system in one side.. they interact a lot with eachother they have also different personal quests and interests sometime can happen if two memeber of party begins to hate eachother one leave or can happen also if you did something wrong a member of the party can attack you.. Again nice companion with great defined personality.. World of game detail and deep detailed great dialogues.. i can continue but.. this is what i mean for complex



Unfortunatly most people watch only to graphic and gameplay first but a rpg must give more

[Monica83]

MGS4 its a great game with a nice big plot.. but for gameplay i prefear MGS3



I play a lot to shooters online i join clan i make tournament (yes is strange for a girl lol) anyways i love them

[John Epler]

Let's cut out the whole 'casual players/hardcore players' business, not to mention the attempt to draw lines in the sand based on what genre someone prefers.



It doesn't contribute to useful discussion and it's unnecessarily antagonistic. If you feel the need to engage in that kind of debate, I'll ask you to take it elsewhere.



Thank you.

[Lorianno]

What nonsense is this about shooters and beat'em ups being for casual only players? Lol. I'm pretty sure they draw more hardcore players than any other genre.



But nm, Epler is right.