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[Jacks Smirking Revenge]

I just hope we get a fair look at the gameplay before the preorder deadline(I'm very confident we will, but since July everything I thought I knew about Dragon Age has mostly been wrong). I don't want to miss out on the collectors edition if my fears are indeed wrong, and I don't want to buy a game full price that has been dubbed an action rpg and plays like an action rpg to me. Since from my own personal experiences and taste those type of games aren't worth full price value.

Modifié par Jacks Smirking Revenge, 03 novembre 2010 - 04:34 .

[mellifera]

Lyssistr wrote...

yukidama wrote...

Lyssistr wrote...

yukidama wrote...
I'm not saying you shouldn't, just saying that they aren't obligated to continue making games that way if they feel they can make something just as good just expressed differently. Whether or not it will actually be good is subjective. Sure it may be disappointing, but I personally have faith that DA2 will be a game I will like and will keep what I came here for in the first place: a great story with engaging characters.

Gaider is the writer so story is quite likely to be cool, characters will probably be interesting as well. My problem with DA2's direction is not if it's gonna be a good game in general, I've skipped plenty of good games in general because they didn't have what I was looking for. In this franchise I look after this type of combat more than anything else tbh.

Well then, if DA2 doesn't provide it I hope you find what you're looking for.

I am just saying that BioWare is under no obligation to continue what they started in the exact same way as the first. If they change up the combat a bit or storytelling style but deliver a good, solid game I won't be mad in the least. Not saying people don't have the right to be disappointed, though.

Obligation is carried only through contractual agreements, so no, there wasn't any.

It's rather an expectation of continuity *within the same franchise/IP*, especially when the focus point for DA:O was about returning to the roots (I was waiting for DA:O to come out for something like half a decade, just for the old-school bit).

Well, you can have as many expectations and wishes as you'd like, but that doesn't mean they're going to carry them out if they don't feel inclined to do so and think they could make their product better.

Modifié par yukidama, 03 novembre 2010 - 04:36 .

[Daerog]

yukidama wrote...

Well, you can have as many expectations and wishes as you'd like, but that doesn't mean they're going to carry them out if they don't feel inclined to do so and think they could make their product better.

There will be no dwarf romance in DA2 b/c Gaider thinks it will be a better product that way.

[Lyssistr]

Jacks Smirking Revenge wrote...

I just hope we get a fair look at the gameplay before the preorder deadline(I'm very confident we will, but since July everything I thought I knew about Dragon Age has mostly been wrong). I don't want to miss out on the collectors edition if my fears are indeed wrong, and I don't want to buy a game full price that has been dubbed an action rpg and plays like an action rpg to me. Since from my own personal experiences and taste those type of games aren't worth full price value.

My problem is exactly the same. I finish these games over a weekend and never go back. For action-gameplay, I want multi & friends, else I snooze to death. When I play strictly single player games, I look for purely strategic gameplay.

To play over a weekend, I'm happy to pay something like 5 GBP but not more than that tbh. I usually buy this sort of games used 2-3 yrs after release or 2-3 years on a Steam holiday season.

 Should DA2 be a coop aRPG my assessment would have been totally different but single player+aRPG is simply a "no-go"

[Fortlowe]

I don't know where all this hate about aRPG's is coming from. Zelda was an aRPG and it's difficult to consider that franchise anything but a masterpiece. Sounds like Bioware is shooting for the moon, which I say more power to them. Beats aiming low and getting more of the same even if it was good the first time *cough* Fable III *cough*.

[AlanC9]

slimgrin wrote...

How many times do I have to...ugh. An action rpg involves fast twitch combat, that means fine motor skills on the part of the player. DA:O was not an action rpg, not in the slightest.

(snip)

Sorry for my condescension. I'm only attempting to define the 'action' part of action rpg, not the rpg part, which as you have suggested, is much broader.

But does Bioware follow your definition of "action"? There's nothing I've heard to suggest that DA2 will be an action-RPG as you define such.

[Lyssistr]

yukidama wrote...
Well, you can have as many expectations and wishes as you'd like, but that doesn't mean they're going to carry them out if they don't feel inclined to do so and think they could make their product better.

Ofc, it also means they can't expect to get any money from me tho.

Will more people think the same way and sales will drop? no idea, it's a good measure for seeing how many old-school RPG fans are out there tbh.

[Brockololly]

Lyssistr wrote...
 Tbh Bio hasn't focused too mach on sequels so far, so yes the sample if taken Bio-only is small.

The only 2 sequels BioWare has made were Baldur's Gate 2: Shadows of Amn and Mass Effect 2. They approached the sequels in almost polar opposite ways though- with BG2, they made a game that built off of the foundation laid in BG1 and added content, made a bigger world, greatly enhanced character interaction, introduced romances and banter- most of the staples you associate with a BioWare RPG come from BG2. Did they change things? Sure, but it was all still very much Baldur's Gate, down to playing as the Bhaalspawn again.

With ME2, they seemingly tried to streamline everything, some of which worked in making it a better shooter, but at the expense of hiding most RPG mechanics or being able to see any sort of stats.

So with DA2, I was hoping BioWare would have taken the BG2 route of a sequel- make it bigger and better and more awe inspiring than the first, while creating an identity of its own. The issue I'm having with most of the changes for DA2, like the dialogue wheel or new art style, is that instead of building off of the foundation of Origins, they're seemingly tearing a good deal of that up and laying down some stuff, like the "new" dialogue wheel, that would seemingly fit in better as a feature in ME3, not iterating off of DAO.

You see it in the preview articles constantly citing ME as an influence on DA2 and for some thats fine, but for me, its just homogeneizing the games and eliminating some of the key aspects that made Origins stand out from other games on the market. And thats disappointing.

[mellifera]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

yukidama wrote...

Well, you can have as many expectations and wishes as you'd like, but that doesn't mean they're going to carry them out if they don't feel inclined to do so and think they could make their product better.

There will be no dwarf romance in DA2 b/c Gaider thinks it will be a better product that way.

Lol, that's hardly a breaking point for me. If there isn't, so what. If there is, awesome. I'm not going out to cancel my preorder over it.

It's Hawke's loss anyway

[Noctis2.0]

Lyssistr wrote...

Noctis2.0 wrote...

Sooo Action RPG= bad?

 Bad in general, without any a priori considerations? No, I'm gonna love Diablo III.

 Bad for DA franchise? It's bad for rejuvenating cRPGs, going back to the roots, bad for claiming the spiritual legacy of BG, bad for royally ****ing the core gameplay of a franchise that btw had no trouble selling. It's as bad as Diablo III would be if it were announced as a turn-based game.

But DA2 wasn't marketed as a spiritual BG because.... it's not. The action part of DA have been amped up that is fact. So your dissapointed that DA2 is becoming exactly what it was set out to be?

[Lyssistr]

Brockololly wrote...

Lyssistr wrote...
 Tbh Bio hasn't focused too mach on sequels so far, so yes the sample if taken Bio-only is small.

The only 2 sequels BioWare has made were Baldur's Gate 2: Shadows of Amn and Mass Effect 2. They approached the sequels in almost polar opposite ways though- with BG2, they made a game that built off of the foundation laid in BG1 and added content, made a bigger world, greatly enhanced character interaction, introduced romances and banter- most of the staples you associate with a BioWare RPG come from BG2. Did they change things? Sure, but it was all still very much Baldur's Gate, down to playing as the Bhaalspawn again.

With ME2, they seemingly tried to streamline everything, some of which worked in making it a better shooter, but at the expense of hiding most RPG mechanics or being able to see any sort of stats.

So with DA2, I was hoping BioWare would have taken the BG2 route of a sequel- make it bigger and better and more awe inspiring than the first, while creating an identity of its own. The issue I'm having with most of the changes for DA2, like the dialogue wheel or new art style, is that instead of building off of the foundation of Origins, they're seemingly tearing a good deal of that up and laying down some stuff, like the "new" dialogue wheel, that would seemingly fit in better as a feature in ME3, not iterating off of DAO.

You see it in the preview articles constantly citing ME as an influence on DA2 and for some thats fine, but for me, its just homogeneizing the games and eliminating some of the key aspects that made Origins stand out from other games on the market. And thats disappointing.

I was also hoping for the qualitative jump that happened from BG->BG II. More density, more "special" enemies needing their own "niche" tacts etc. Instead, we got, oh well, "press a button and something awesome happens".

I'll probably wait for a solid indie studio to pick up the "old-school" mantra, quite possible these days with engines like Ogre being out there for free. Most recent h&s games were ****ty and Torchlight came out of nowhere to change all this. Maybe something like will happen to cRPGs, the market is there and a good indie studio could seize the opportunity.

[Dave of Canada]

Brockololly wrote...

With ME2, they seemingly tried to streamline everything, some of which worked in making it a better shooter, but at the expense of hiding most RPG mechanics or being able to see any sort of stats.

Really? I'd say the first one was dumbed down and "streamlined" for RPG fans.

[Lyssistr]

Noctis2.0 wrote...

Lyssistr wrote...

Noctis2.0 wrote...

Sooo Action RPG= bad?

 Bad in general, without any a priori considerations? No, I'm gonna love Diablo III.

 Bad for DA franchise? It's bad for rejuvenating cRPGs, going back to the roots, bad for claiming the spiritual legacy of BG, bad for royally ****ing the core gameplay of a franchise that btw had no trouble selling. It's as bad as Diablo III would be if it were announced as a turn-based game.

But DA2 wasn't marketed as a spiritual BG because.... it's not. The action part of DA have been amped up that is fact. So your dissapointed that DA2 is becoming exactly what it was set out to be?

It's three pages of posts, read them.

[AlanC9]

Brockololly wrote...

The only 2 sequels BioWare has made were Baldur's Gate 2: Shadows of Amn and Mass Effect 2. They approached the sequels in almost polar opposite ways though- with BG2, they made a game that built off of the foundation laid in BG1 and added content, made a bigger world, greatly enhanced character interaction, introduced romances and banter- most of the staples you associate with a BioWare RPG come from BG2. Did they change things? Sure, but it was all still very much Baldur's Gate, down to playing as the Bhaalspawn again.

Hold it.  Going from an explorable map to discrete quest-related areas was a huge change, to say nothing of the different way the main plot was handled. Sure, free-roaming isn't a Bioware game staple, but that's because they changed direction after BG1.

To say that BG2 was "still Baldur's Gate" is a value judgment about what was important about the BG1 design, not a statement of fact. I think ME2 was still ME because it kept everything that I personally value about ME.

[Taritu]

Just remember folks, DAO sold better than ME2 or ME. Just a reminder. So maybe the ME way isn't the superior way, even by commercial metrics.

[Taritu]

ME2 was a joke in terms of difficulty. Hide behind cover, pop up, shoot, pop back, completely invulnerable to almost all damage from ordinary enemies. And the story was awful in comparison to ME1. Still liked it, but hardly the be all, end all.



DA is not the red headed step child of Bioware games.

[AlanC9]

Lyssistr wrote...
I was also hoping for the qualitative jump that happened from BG->BG II. More density, more "special" enemies needing their own "niche" tacts etc. Instead, we got, oh well, "press a button and something awesome happens".

Ummm... those two things aren't opposed.  Having a lag between hitting a control and having the character take his action isn't a defining feature of an RPG.

[Gibb_Shepard]

Taritu wrote...

Just remember folks, DAO sold better than ME2 or ME. Just a reminder. So maybe the ME way isn't the superior way, even by commercial metrics.

You do realise that DAO sold more because it was on 2 more platforms than ME right? If ME was a multiplatform game, it would surely have sold more than DAO.

[Lataaja00]

It seems that Bioware wanted and got itself a new fan base. In future it might cause some problems because it’s possible that some new fans don’t like deep dialogue. When the deep dialogue is taken away, a game made by Bioware will be just one of the many action games on the market.



It’s a sad direction because then I won’t anymore belong to the audience of the games. Even when I was a kid I didn’t like games which relied on fast reflexes. Now I like them even less. I really hope that an option to pause in DA 2 is functional (on PC).

[AlanC9]

Taritu wrote...

ME2 was a joke in terms of difficulty. Hide behind cover, pop up, shoot, pop back, completely invulnerable to almost all damage from ordinary enemies. And the story was awful in comparison to ME1. Still liked it, but hardly the be all, end all.

I disagree on the ME2 story, but yeah, Bio botched the difficulty. Though DAO's a cakewalk too if you know to pump DEX. Bio has a terrible habit of not really understanding how their games actually play.

[slimgrin]

Lataaja00 wrote...

 I really hope that an option to pause in DA 2 is functional (on PC).

I'm sure it will be.

[AlanC9]

Lataaja00 wrote...
It’s a sad direction because then I won’t anymore belong to the audience of the games. Even when I was a kid I didn’t like games which relied on fast reflexes. Now I like them even less. I really hope that an option to pause in DA 2 is functional (on PC). 

I'm still waiting for someone to show me where anyone said that DA2 will require fast reflexes.

[Riona45]

AlanC9 wrote...

To say that BG2 was "still Baldur's Gate" is a value judgment about what was important about the BG1 design, not a statement of fact.

Indeed--I was around when BG2 came out, and plenty of people were on hand to complain about every little change from BG1.  I'm sure those people felt the changes were important to them.

[Daerog]

AlanC9 wrote...

Lataaja00 wrote...
It’s a sad direction because then I won’t anymore belong to the audience of the games. Even when I was a kid I didn’t like games which relied on fast reflexes. Now I like them even less. I really hope that an option to pause in DA 2 is functional (on PC). 

I'm still waiting for someone to show me where anyone said that DA2 will require fast reflexes.

You won't need fast reflexes in DA2, just enough reflex to press pause when you want to think about what to do next. Still has autoattacks.

JE2 will require somewhat fast reflexes, because we all know that they are making that game. People are admitting that BioWare is moving more towards "action rpgs" so it is inevitable, right?

[Fishy]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Lataaja00 wrote...
It’s a sad direction because then I won’t anymore belong to the audience of the games. Even when I was a kid I didn’t like games which relied on fast reflexes. Now I like them even less. I really hope that an option to pause in DA 2 is functional (on PC). 

I'm still waiting for someone to show me where anyone said that DA2 will require fast reflexes.

You won't need fast reflexes in DA2, just enough reflex to press pause when you want to think about what to do next. Still has autoattacks.

JE2 will require somewhat fast reflexes, because we all know that they are making that game. People are admitting that BioWare is moving more towards "action rpgs" so it is inevitable, right?

Jade empire was more a mix of Beat them all and RPG