78 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

Harid wrote...

ddv.rsa wrote...

There is one other comment:

"Bhelen threatened to kill my sons if I don't support him." (orz340_h_desh_amb_f_2.dlg)

As for the casteless I disagree with Harid. One can't really blame them for staying in dust town. It's easy to say "just go to surface", but as has been pointed out already consider how little they know and how suspicious dwarves in general are about the surface.

BOOM.

As for your second point, you are chosing between the unknown. . .and a feces reuben.

I would choose the unknown 1000 times first.

It's not even that unknown seeing as how theres mention of surface dwarves. <_<

Though...good god is Bhelen a douche.

Why is there no kill em both option? I mean honestly we have a weak willed briber on one side and a complete douche on the other. ...There really wasn't anyone else willing to be king.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 04 novembre 2010 - 11:52 .

[Harid]

Technically there is if you do what I do, save on a dwarven noble play through.



Kill Bhelen, Let Harrowmont rule without the anvil, don't kill Bhelen's supporters in the proving. Harrowmont will be killed in the epilogue, and the dwarves can choose who ever they damn well please.

[Ryzaki]

Truth. There really should've been a "...you lot can't decide on your own? I just need a damn army." Alas everyone in Fereldan requires the Warden's input even when it makes no sense. D:

[ejoslin]

Ryzaki wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Ghetto was about the casteless life, not about abused women. The conversation evolved from there. And no one said YOU said that, just that it was said that the dwarf casteless deserve whatever abuse they get.

And I was saying two separate things, which I guess gets confusing. Casteless dwarves are very much stuck in many ways, but with even fewer options, than the ghetto. And on the battered women front, basically that no one deserves to be assaulted.

Probably clear as mud.

Then why quote me and say that? '

...You're right your post is about as clear as mud.

Anyways never said they deserved it. But I can't feel sorry for them when they do have a way out. It may not be desirable but its a way out. Them choosing not to take it is on them.

That doesn't mean I feel they deserve it. Just I can't feel sorry for it happening when they have ways out.

Edit: This is why I can't help but persuade the female dwarf to go to the surface with her son.

That said I'm the type of person who will steal anything someone leaves lying around and very much a hedonist so...

No, sorry, I didn't mean to imply you had.  When I quote people to continue a conversation, I guess it's not always great, but if I don't, then well, no one knows who I'm responding to.  But the conversation you jumped into, it was already in response to someone saying that the casteless deserved the abuse they receive.  And it evolved to abused women.  So it was in two different directions.

I always persuade the female to go to the surface as well (well, once I convinced her to kill her son).

[Harid]

Ryzaki wrote...

Truth. There really should've been a "...you lot can't decide on your own? I just need a damn army." Alas everyone in Fereldan requires the Warden's input even when it makes no sense. D:

Sad thing is I don't even use my troops during the actual Blight Battle.

I swear they should have let you walk away and just make the final battle increase in difficulty to impossible based on how many nations you told to "****** off" when they send you on a fetch quest.

Bhelen isn't Wrex, he's a douche. . .he's not someone who's face I want to see in the future, or in future Dragon Age games.

Modifié par Harid, 05 novembre 2010 - 12:01 .

[Ryzaki]

ejoslin wrote...

No, sorry, I didn't mean to imply you had.  When I quote people to continue a conversation, I guess it's not always great, but if I don't, then well, no one knows who I'm responding to.  But the conversation you jumped into, it was already in response to someone saying that the casteless deserved the abuse they receive.  And it evolved to abused women.  So it was in two different directions.

I always persuade the female to go to the surface as well (well, once I convinced her to kill her son).

Yeah quoting people and responding to things they didn't say tends to lead to such confusion.

I couldn't do it. I always feel like a douche afterwards.

[ejoslin]

Ryzaki wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

No, sorry, I didn't mean to imply you had.  When I quote people to continue a conversation, I guess it's not always great, but if I don't, then well, no one knows who I'm responding to.  But the conversation you jumped into, it was already in response to someone saying that the casteless deserved the abuse they receive.  And it evolved to abused women.  So it was in two different directions.

I always persuade the female to go to the surface as well (well, once I convinced her to kill her son).

Yeah quoting people and responding to things they didn't say tends to lead to such confusion.

I couldn't do it. I always feel like a douche afterwards.

Ok, THIS is what I was responding to...

ejoslin wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

ejoslin wrote...


Hell if I know, but I have some strong feelings about it, so I'm gonna talk!

Edit: Actually, it's because of a post that said casteless dwarves deserve whatever abuse they get.

Hm...

I have to say I don't completely disagree with the CD deserving the abuse they get. Sure they don't deserve deserve it but if you're going to stand their while someone punches you in the face I can't feel sorry for you. 

I see it more of a ghetto life.  I don't think anyone deserves abuse, though, and when it extrapolates to violence against families, I have even more to say

The fact that you took it to be about abused women instead of about the ghetto life of casteless dwarves, ok, I apologize for not being MORE clear before moving onto another thought, but I did respond to what you said.  I thought the ghetto referring to the dwarf casteless was clear.

But again, I did not mean to imply you said abused women deserve it.  I don't think I DO imply it, but since you read it that way, apparently it can be read that way.

*grin* We DO butt heads a lot, don't we

Edit: Messed up flags.  Hope they're fixed.

Second edit: The conversation was about two things.  Abused women, and the plight of the casteless.  

Modifié par ejoslin, 05 novembre 2010 - 12:17 .

[ddv.rsa]

Harid wrote...

Bhelen isn't Wrex, he's a douche. . .he's not someone who's face I want to see in the future, or in future Dragon Age games.

I can't stand him either. However when compared to the hopelessly incompetent Harrowmont, I'd have to say Bhelen is the lesser of the two evils. He's a pig but at least he doesn't destroy Orzammar through sheer stupidity.

[Harid]

ddv.rsa wrote...

Harid wrote...

Bhelen isn't Wrex, he's a douche. . .he's not someone who's face I want to see in the future, or in future Dragon Age games.

I can't stand him either. However when compared to the hopelessly incompetent Harrowmont, I'd have to say Bhelen is the lesser of the two evils. He's a pig but at least he doesn't destroy Orzammar through sheer stupidity.

But technically Harrowmont doesn't.  He doesn't get the chance to.  Awakening shows this.

[Ryzaki]

ejoslin wrote...

The fact that you took it to be about abused women instead of about the ghetto life of casteless dwarves, ok, I apologize for not being MORE clear before moving onto another thought, but I did respond to what you said.  I thought the ghetto referring to the dwarf casteless was clear.

But again, I did not mean to imply you said abused women deserve it.  I don't think I DO imply it, but since you read it that way, apparently it can be read that way.

*grin* We DO butt heads a lot, don't we

Edit: Messed up flags.  Hope they're fixed.

Second edit: The conversation was about two things.  Abused women, and the plight of the casteless.  

I think it's our destiny to butt heads. We're in an eternal war with each other.

Though CD are never said to live in the ghetto which is why I suppose I switched tracks. They live in the slums.

So I misunderstood you as well.

Ah you rival you

Yup. That said I feel the same way with both of them. They don't deserve it but I can't find any sympathy for them.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 05 novembre 2010 - 01:05 .

[ejoslin]

Awakening shows a lot of things that directly contradict epilogue cards. There is a LOT of handwaving going on in that expansion. I think there are only two decisions in the expansion that matter.

Edit: Some handwaves!

Wynne.  I've had her show up after I killed her.  And when she lives, she's supposed to be heading to Tevinter.
Love Interest:  Leliana, Zevran, Gray Warden Alistair -- if the warden chooses to rebuild the gray wardens (which is what you do in awakening), they're supposed to be with you.  Awakening epilogue for all three has this never happening.
Dwarves. As you say, it's irrelevant whom you pick as king, though according to the epilogue, it should make a difference.  If Harrowmont is king and you keep the anvil, Orzammar is not sealed away, though it should be.
Oghren: If you kill Oghren, he's alive anyway.

I'm sure there are more, but those stick out in my mind.

Modifié par ejoslin, 05 novembre 2010 - 01:10 .

[Ryzaki]

ejoslin wrote...

Awakening shows a lot of things that directly contradict epilogue cards. There is a LOT of handwaving going on in that expansion. I think there are only two decisions in the expansion that matter.

Not to mention the facepalm worthiness of the Warden disappearing.

...Why exactly did the Warden vanish? 

Oh wait! It's never explained. <_<

[Bruddajakka]

Ryzaki wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Awakening shows a lot of things that directly contradict epilogue cards. There is a LOT of handwaving going on in that expansion. I think there are only two decisions in the expansion that matter.

Not to mention the facepalm worthiness of the Warden disappearing.

...Why exactly did the Warden vanish? 

Oh wait! It's never explained. <_<

Actually it is in WH.

[Sarah1281]

Only if you follow Morrigan through the mirror which I believe was revealed as the non-canonical explanation.

Edit: And before anyone tells me that each game is its own canon, by 'canon' I meant 'if and when Morrigan shows up in future installments, she went through that mirror and raised that child without the Warden.'

Modifié par Sarah1281, 05 novembre 2010 - 01:28 .

[Ryzaki]

Bruddajakka wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Awakening shows a lot of things that directly contradict epilogue cards. There is a LOT of handwaving going on in that expansion. I think there are only two decisions in the expansion that matter.

Not to mention the facepalm worthiness of the Warden disappearing.

...Why exactly did the Warden vanish? 

Oh wait! It's never explained. <_<

Actually it is in WH.

My character couldn't give two ****s about Morrigan and never went after her. so yeah. Were did my Warden go? 

[Harid]

ejoslin wrote...

Awakening shows a lot of things that directly contradict epilogue cards. There is a LOT of handwaving going on in that expansion. I think there are only two decisions in the expansion that matter.

They have to.  Otherwise there would be too many drastic differences between choices in sequels.

This is Bioware, their MO is giving you choices, that ultimately, do not matter in the end.  Which is why I know choosing Harrowmont over Bhelen is not really going to have any drastic effects on the Dwarves or the world around it.  Or Vice Versa.

I don't neccesarily blame them, though, coding the multitude of chocies you make in a game would have to be a nightmare.

[Ryzaki]

Well it could be worse.



They could completely ignore choices. *glares at Mass Effect comics* Even my renegades wouldn't pick Udina's douchebaggy ass.

[Harid]

Ryzaki wrote...

Well it could be worse.

They could completely ignore choices. *glares at Mass Effect comics* Even my renegades wouldn't pick Udina's douchebaggy ass.

I think they retconed that as Udina was pretty much given the job after Anderson walked off of it.  Some sort of video you see during the Shadow Broker quest.

I would assume they needed to do this to reintroduce Anderson in ME:3, given the fact that most people won't be working for Cerberus.

It's not like the council ever does **** anyway.  I still laugh at the dialogue for the Rachni killing/sparing.

You humans are murderers!  How could you eradicate the last of the Rachni!
Are you insane?  You let the Rachni free?

I was just shaking my head.

Modifié par Harid, 05 novembre 2010 - 02:00 .

[Ryzaki]

Harid wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Well it could be worse.

They could completely ignore choices. *glares at Mass Effect comics* Even my renegades wouldn't pick Udina's douchebaggy ass.

I think they retconed that as Udina was pretty much given the job after Anderson walked off of it.  Some sort of video you see during the Shadow Broker quest.

I would assume they needed to do this to reintroduce Anderson in ME:3, given the fact that most people won't be working for Cerberus.

Nah. Its confirmed Anderson can't walk away from being councilor and that Udina always was in the comics. (Hopefully this won't translate to the game but my hopes aren't high).

[ejoslin]

*grin* My biggest problem with the handwaving in Awakening, silly enough, was in the epilogue cards. I know many don't romance Zevran, BUT if you did, ignoring the handwaving of what happens to him if you live and he's in love in Origins... And provided you weren't married to Alistair or Anora...

Your disappearance is actually explained. Rumors say you went chasing after him to Antiva, where you either engaged in a showdown with him or took over the crows with him, and perhaps you adventure with him still.

However, the crows still steal vigilance. Ok, it's a quibble because the Zevran card is all about rumors, but if you take over the crows, you're stealing your own sword from yourself?

*sigh* Well, there was a lot more that bothered me about Awakening, but they could have had at least the epilogue card scenarios not contradict another card.

But that's me being fussy

Edit: But yeh, most wardens do not have it explained why they disappeared.  Only the wardens who go into mirror world and the warden who may have chased after that crazy antivan (that ending, btw, in Origins, him taking over the crows, was his US ending -- kind of the equivalent to Leliana committing suicide or Alistair quitting the gray wardens, BUT that's a nerdrage for another thread).

Modifié par ejoslin, 05 novembre 2010 - 02:04 .

[Harid]

Pretty sure the only reason the Vigilance was stolen was so it could appear in future games and make logical sense.

[Sarah1281]

Vigilance doesn't even have to exist, though. And while it's a good sword, the easter egg of having it in a future game is not worth the sheer WTH of it getting stolen by the Crows. Since when are they in the petty theft business anyway?

[ejoslin]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Vigilance doesn't even have to exist, though. And while it's a good sword, the easter egg of having it in a future game is not worth the sheer WTH of it getting stolen by the Crows. Since when are they in the petty theft business anyway?

I agree, it IS a wtf moment.  And jarring when you romance Zevran for sure.

But the Crows were quite different between Origins and Awakening, and in many cases another case of a LOT of handwaving.  So /shrug.  I thought instead of the Crows in Awakening, they should have used the Crimson Oars.  I liked them!

[Harid]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Vigilance doesn't even have to exist, though. And while it's a good sword, the easter egg of having it in a future game is not worth the sheer WTH of it getting stolen by the Crows. Since when are they in the petty theft business anyway?

Vigilance helps tie your Warden to other dragon age games, though, through proxy of use.  it being stolen instead of taken from your cold dead hands means they don't have to explain how your Warden actually dies, which seems to be a common theme to the Wardens in general. ("Ambiguous deaths")

And to be fair we don't know the extent to what the crows do or are hired to do.  Yes, they are assassins, but you speak as if we had full disclosures into their daily operations.  I am quite certain Zevran hasn't told you everything.

And I don't think it's considered petty theft when you steal from an arguable legend.  I think you get reputations for doing that.  People still remember the guy who stole the Mona Lisa, for instance (Peruggia).

Modifié par Harid, 05 novembre 2010 - 02:31 .

[ejoslin]

Harid wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Vigilance doesn't even have to exist, though. And while it's a good sword, the easter egg of having it in a future game is not worth the sheer WTH of it getting stolen by the Crows. Since when are they in the petty theft business anyway?

Vigilance helps tie your Warden to other dragon age games, though, through proxy of use.

And to be fair we don't know the extent to what the crows do or are hired to do.  Yes, they are assassins, but you speak as if we had full disclosures into their daily operations.

And i don't think it's considered petty theft when you steal from an arguable legend.  I think you get reputations for doing that.  People still remember the guy who stole the Mona Lisa, for instance.

Hmmm, the handwaving comes in with this.  Now these CAN be handwaved and I've heard all the arguments, but fact is, they are handwaves...

In a banter between Alistair and Zevran, Zevran reveals that no other Crows were willing to take on a contract against the Gray Wardens, recruits or no.  It was considered impolitic.

Ignacio is insulted by the very idea that HE would take such a contract.  As he puts it, he is not a fool.

If you finish the trial of the crows, Ignacio assures you there will be no new contracts taken out on you.  He also lets you know that if you want to join the Crows, they'd take you.

Now, granted, these CAN be handwaved.  (that was just a banter.  maybe these poor nobles came up with LOTS AND LOTS of money -- enough to get a new contract though no one would take it a year before, though they were poor.  You think an assassin would keep his word?)

And yeh, the Crows are known to be a deadly order of assassins.  You don't hear about grand thefts.  

But no matter what, if my warden is RUNNING them, she's not stealing her own sword.

Modifié par ejoslin, 05 novembre 2010 - 02:33 .