294 réponses à ce sujet

[Zulu_DFA]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

It's one of the things that video game designers should be trying to avoid like the plague -- showing two different worlds, one for gameplay and one for cutscenes, often contradictory, is one of the most immersion-breaking aspects of video games.  It falls squarely into the catagory of "hanging by the neck until dead" (see my sig).

That's right. Kasumi's somersaults, Jack's using her biotics out of the freezer, and Collector ship's coming out of nowhere are plot holes.

But capturing Shepard? Not so much.

[vinak]

I'd be against the possibility of Shepard being captured/interrogated at the beginning of ME3



First of all, Admiral Hacket already rejected the request to apprehend, and interrogate Shepard.(for 7-8 months)

Secondly, my Shepard is still a Spectre therefore above the law. And the council still owes me their lives. (even if the council dies, you can still be a spectre)



third...what crime did Shepard commit to warrant the capture? It is irrelevant if you are a Spectre anyways.



finally....you should have direct connections with the shadow broker...not to mention the numerous other connections you could have established...thus should be nearly impossible to find/capture if you so chose to do so.



I'd simply like an out of game questionnaire over an interrogation if the import save function doesn't work....if this route has to work somehow....at least make it a debriefing...

[Fiery Phoenix]

I think some people in here seem to believe that Shepard is so tough that no one can approach and capture her unless they're willing to commit suicide. Even if that's the case, as stated earlier, anyone from the likes of Tim, Anderson or the Virmire survivor could easily make a plan that results in Shepard being captured without a single shot fired. It doesn't have to be a desperate fight. You can always capture suspects nice and easy if you just know how to do it.

[Zulu_DFA]

vinak wrote...

First of all, Admiral Hacket already rejected the request to apprehend, and interrogate Shepard.(for 7-8 months)

Once. He may not deny it twice.

vinak wrote...
Secondly, my Shepard is still a Spectre therefore above the law.

That's one of the reasons to bring you down. No one should be above the law. It's also a reason to not apply the law to your capture and trial.

vinak wrote... 
And the council still owes me their lives. (even if the council dies, you can still be a spectre)

Big deal. It's actually convenient for them to put you down. They won't owe anything anyone anymore.

vinak wrote... 
third...what crime did Shepard commit to warrant the capture? It is irrelevant if you are a Spectre anyways.

Read through the first page of the thread at least. You'd know.

vinak wrote... 
finally....you should have direct connections with the shadow broker...not to mention the numerous other connections you could have established...thus should be nearly impossible to find/capture if you so chose to do so.

Like it was impossible for Forvan to knock you out with poison in a bar?

vinak wrote... 
I'd simply like an out of game questionnaire over an interrogation if the import save function doesn't work....if this route has to work somehow....at least make it a debriefing...

This is not about import files not working. This is about story progression making sense for every player, Paragon, Renegade, Cerberus Fan, Council Fan, Shadow Broker Fan and Newbie. The interrogation scenario can create such a universal entry point. A debriefing can not.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 16 novembre 2010 - 04:32 .

[Fixers0]

You now, i'm started to think in two ways about it either it could work only if it's executed well, on the other hand, i think it's a trash just another start-of-the-game plot that has nothing to do with the main plotline, and just another damn cliche to shock the players as wellcontributing nothing to Shepard's character, you see a protagonist is the hero of a story, if you let him die or putting him in jail, it's sure is dramatic, but this what a protagonist is supposed to esspecialy at the begining of the story as it only use is to change sides.

ME2 - Dramatic intro-Working for Cerberus.

ME3 - Dramatic intro- Working Alone?



In Mass effect 1 Shepard's was as soldier who was doing his job and encounters all kind's of things along his journey who are slowly giving you pieces of the big puzzel. in ME2 The intro was of no use to the plot, this will also happen if you choose another cliche for ME3

[Dean_the_Young]

As I recall, your Spectre status was dependent on you staying the heck out of Citadel Space. So long as you didn't do Thane, Garrus, or Kasumi's loyalty missions, you shouldn't have forfeited your Spectre status agreement.



Not that Spectre status would mean anything if you were caught trying to cure the genophage, or raising an army of Geth and Rachni and more from the bridge of a warship controlled by a unbounded AI.

[Jebel Krong]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

As I recall, your Spectre status was dependent on you staying the heck out of Citadel Space. So long as you didn't do Thane, Garrus, or Kasumi's loyalty missions, you shouldn't have forfeited your Spectre status agreement.

Not that Spectre status would mean anything if you were caught trying to cure the genophage, or raising an army of Geth and Rachni and more from the bridge of a warship controlled by a unbounded AI.

it was more about confining your investigation and association with cerberus to the terminus systems than anything else, but that's just to give the council plausible deniability more than anything: th council make it clear in the first game they are not privy to the exact movements/investigations of spectres.

[Jebel Krong]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

It's one of the things that video game designers should be trying to avoid like the plague -- showing two different worlds, one for gameplay and one for cutscenes, often contradictory, is one of the most immersion-breaking aspects of video games.  It falls squarely into the catagory of "hanging by the neck until dead" (see my sig).

That's right. Kasumi's somersaults, Jack's using her biotics out of the freezer, and Collector ship's coming out of nowhere are plot holes.

But capturing Shepard? Not so much.

rubbish - in your opinion, maybe it's acceptable, but in most people's - no way. but of course you have form for cliched, contrarion opinions...

[Dean_the_Young]

Jebel Krong wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

As I recall, your Spectre status was dependent on you staying the heck out of Citadel Space. So long as you didn't do Thane, Garrus, or Kasumi's loyalty missions, you shouldn't have forfeited your Spectre status agreement.

Not that Spectre status would mean anything if you were caught trying to cure the genophage, or raising an army of Geth and Rachni and more from the bridge of a warship controlled by a unbounded AI.

it was more about confining your investigation and association with cerberus to the terminus systems than anything else, but that's just to give the council plausible deniability more than anything: th council make it clear in the first game they are not privy to the exact movements/investigations of spectres.

They said limit your activities to Terminus space. They didn't give a qualifer. Did you or did you not violate the terms of your reinstatement?

[Dean_the_Young]

Jebel Krong wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

It's one of the things that video game designers should be trying to avoid like the plague -- showing two different worlds, one for gameplay and one for cutscenes, often contradictory, is one of the most immersion-breaking aspects of video games.  It falls squarely into the catagory of "hanging by the neck until dead" (see my sig).

That's right. Kasumi's somersaults, Jack's using her biotics out of the freezer, and Collector ship's coming out of nowhere are plot holes.

But capturing Shepard? Not so much.

rubbish - in your opinion, maybe it's acceptable, but in most people's - no way. but of course you have form for cliched, contrarion opinions...

You're going to need far more than yourself and killjoy to claim that most people's opinion is that cutscenes and flourishes such as Jack's biotics or Kasumi's actions are inherently bad story.

[Jebel Krong]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

As I recall, your Spectre status was dependent on you staying the heck out of Citadel Space. So long as you didn't do Thane, Garrus, or Kasumi's loyalty missions, you shouldn't have forfeited your Spectre status agreement.

Not that Spectre status would mean anything if you were caught trying to cure the genophage, or raising an army of Geth and Rachni and more from the bridge of a warship controlled by a unbounded AI.

it was more about confining your investigation and association with cerberus to the terminus systems than anything else, but that's just to give the council plausible deniability more than anything: th council make it clear in the first game they are not privy to the exact movements/investigations of spectres.

They said limit your activities to Terminus space. They didn't give a qualifer. Did you or did you not violate the terms of your reinstatement?

they also said they don't want/need you to file reports. you have to look at subtext as well as statements, inferred meaning and consider your/their history and their previous statements to get the context - they were only concerned with backing you publicly whilst you had the taint of cerberus around you. that's it.

edit: i have no problem with "cutscene flourishes" as you put it (they're cool and it would be impossible to represent in balanced gameplay scenarios), i do have a problem with something like an entire abduction/interrogation set-up being forced upon you, as do many others. besides it's ust so cliche and illogical - particularly to those who are still spectres (and i'm sure there are many) - one of the reason's hackett flatly denied the request in the LoSB dossier. besides if you have done kasumi you have dirt on the alliance with/without the graybox anyway.

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 16 novembre 2010 - 11:22 .

[joriandrake]

Please no, not like many others I actually enjoyed Alpha Protocol, and I kinda can accept how the story of DA2 will be told, but to play the same card also on ME3 would be too much.

[Dean_the_Young]

Why do they need your reports to know, if they start an investigation at all?





Spectre status only protects anyone as long as the Council wills it. It's not a shield against the Council by any means. You're only safe as long as they aren't concerned about you, and the moment you are Spectre status is irrelevant. Building allies and armies in the Terminus in the name of a non-existent threat isn't idle worry.

[M8DMAN]

Zulu is still holding on to the fact that shepard killed a specter in the shadow broker DLC. Big freaking deal!

Also its like vinak said Shepard has the Shadow Broker for a ally and as you know the shadow broker is one of the most powerful people in the galaxy.
There are agents working for the shadow broker in the alliance and just about every other form of goverment agency in the Galaxy.

If the council cant get a hold of the shadow broker they sure as hell can't arrest Shepard!

Modifié par M8DMAN, 16 novembre 2010 - 08:06 .

[Zulu_DFA]

M8DMAN wrote...

Zulu is still holding on to the fact that shepard killed a specter in the shadow broker DLC. Big freaking deal!

I'm not holding on to the killing of Vasir (simply because not everyone played LotSB). I'm holding on to the tax evasion.

M8DMAN wrote...
Also its like vinak said Shepard has the Shadow Broker for a ally and as you know the shadow broker is one of the most powerful people in the galaxy.

So are TIM, Admiral Hackett, Councillor Udina and the Turian Councillor (if alive). Some of the most powerful people in the Galaxy.

M8DMAN wrote...
There are agents working for the shadow broker in the alliance and just about every other form of goverment agency in the Galaxy.

So what? The missions you can "invest" in at one of the terminals at TSB's base do not always end in success.

M8DMAN wrote...
If the council cant get a hold of the shadow broker they sure as hell can't arrest Shepard!

The Council never wanted to get hold on TSB. It looked like they were relying on TSB to maintain the the galactic stagnation for them.

Also, people love to quote Liara's "I can start a war in 10 minutes" line. Only they forget to mention that Liara didn't care to specify what kind of war she meant. An interstellar war? Or only a global war? Or a war between two Krogan clans?

And it is never said that the Yahg Broker's ever been that powerful... In the end he couldn't see his own doom coming.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 16 novembre 2010 - 08:45 .

[Dean_the_Young]

'The Shadow Broker was so powerful, even Cerberus could stop him.'

[Fiery Phoenix]

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

I think some people in here seem to believe that Shepard is so tough that no one can approach and capture her unless they're willing to commit suicide. Even if that's the case, as stated earlier, anyone from the likes of Tim, Anderson or the Virmire survivor could easily make a plan that results in Shepard being captured without a single shot fired. It doesn't have to be a desperate fight. You can always capture suspects nice and easy if you just know how to do it.

Thought I'd quote this to make sure it is noted.

[Cra5y Pineapple]

What is this Black Ops? No. I say no explaination for the character creation like there was before. No Viruses, No Lazarus project. It will probably start with Cerberus back-stabbing you/you back-stabbing Cerberus.

[Killjoy Cutter]

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

I think some people in here seem to believe that Shepard is so tough that no one can approach and capture her unless they're willing to commit suicide. Even if that's the case, as stated earlier, anyone from the likes of Tim, Anderson or the Virmire survivor could easily make a plan that results in Shepard being captured without a single shot fired. It doesn't have to be a desperate fight. You can always capture suspects nice and easy if you just know how to do it.

I'm sure the Blue Suns on Purgatory thought they knew how to do it, too.


Any capture scenario, especially any "without a fight" scenario, requires Bioware to take control of Shepherd away from the player in order to ensure that it works.


Worst moment in Awakening?  When I specifically avoided the obvious trap in the silverite mine (in the Wending Wood), and then we go to a cutscene, and my character is suddenly standing right on the trap.  I knew just from looking that it was a trap, and I avoided it on purpose, and here comes the damn cutscene. 

Or the damn Sloth Abomination in the Circle Tower in DA:O, (or any spot where you must trigger a cutscene or get within melee range before an obvious enemy can be attacked).  Why is it when I open some doors it automatically triggers a scene of the party walking into the room?  I never enter a room in DA without looking  first -- not that I hate the Fade part of DA:O as some others do, but the fact that I'm specifically stopped from using the tactically sound method of attacking from outside the room and using the door as a pinch-point, and forced into a conversation with an obvious magic-using threat that otherwise I'd cast Paralyze and other interupting spells on as soon as combat started is just plain terrible game design.

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 17 novembre 2010 - 03:33 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

I think some people in here seem to believe that Shepard is so tough that no one can approach and capture her unless they're willing to commit suicide. Even if that's the case, as stated earlier, anyone from the likes of Tim, Anderson or the Virmire survivor could easily make a plan that results in Shepard being captured without a single shot fired. It doesn't have to be a desperate fight. You can always capture suspects nice and easy if you just know how to do it.

Thought I'd quote this to make sure it is noted.

We saw your post the first time, thanks. 

[LorDC]

I am amazed how many relies are variations of "Shepard did not commit any crimes so he can't be put under trial". If being guilty was necessary to be put in jail than life in our world would be a lot better.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Killjoy, I'm not going to repeat myself. Of course it would mean control over Shepard would be taken away. It would more or less play out the same way as the Normandy destruction scene at the beginning of ME2.

Modifié par FieryPhoenix7, 17 novembre 2010 - 04:22 .

[FuturePasTimeCE]

so wait, shepard's opening mission of mass effect 3 is going to be like the mission of recruiting jack?

[Dean_the_Young]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

I think some people in here seem to believe that Shepard is so tough that no one can approach and capture her unless they're willing to commit suicide. Even if that's the case, as stated earlier, anyone from the likes of Tim, Anderson or the Virmire survivor could easily make a plan that results in Shepard being captured without a single shot fired. It doesn't have to be a desperate fight. You can always capture suspects nice and easy if you just know how to do it.

I'm sure the Blue Suns on Purgatory thought they knew how to do it, too.


Any capture scenario, especially any "without a fight" scenario, requires Bioware to take control of Shepherd away from the player in order to ensure that it works.


Worst moment in Awakening?  When I specifically avoided the obvious trap in the silverite mine (in the Wending Wood), and then we go to a cutscene, and my character is suddenly standing right on the trap.  I knew just from looking that it was a trap, and I avoided it on purpose, and here comes the damn cutscene. 

Or the damn Sloth Abomination in the Circle Tower in DA:O, (or any spot where you must trigger a cutscene or get within melee range before an obvious enemy can be attacked).  Why is it when I open some doors it automatically triggers a scene of the party walking into the room?  I never enter a room in DA without looking  first -- not that I hate the Fade part of DA:O as some others do, but the fact that I'm specifically stopped from using the tactically sound method of attacking from outside the room and using the door as a pinch-point, and forced into a conversation with an obvious magic-using threat that otherwise I'd cast Paralyze and other interupting spells on as soon as combat started is just plain terrible game design.

For the same reason we, Shepard, can't kill everyone in the game, including your team mates, any time we want. Something even Halo let you do.

If your dispute is that you yourself would never lose at any occassion, that's hardly impossible. Something like, say, the end of Reach, where no matter how well you do, you will still die. Or they could start the fight with some unavoidable starter, and then you watch as your health/stamina bar drops continuously until you pass out and are captured.

Or, since it's inevitable regardless, they could skip that, and simply laugh at people who insist they could never be taken down under any circumstance.

Same ending point, really. Shepard is captured.

[M8DMAN]

FuturePasTimeCE wrote...

so wait, shepard's opening mission of mass effect 3 is going to be like the mission of recruiting jack?

No its just some fan theory idea Zulu cooked up.  Some people think its a cool idea. Some people think it's stupid.

I belong to the latter.
 

Modifié par M8DMAN, 17 novembre 2010 - 07:16 .