294 réponses à ce sujet

[lovgreno]

KuldarYldrad wrote...

Would be nice having two beginings:

• If Shepard is a spectre, it's a debriefing.
• If Shepard isn't a spectre, it's an interrogation.

Great idea! A bit of variation depending on previous choices but still a efficent rundown of the two first games.

[Zulu_DFA]

Paragons really fear the biting in the arse, don't they?

[Nightwriter]

Ask a long time fan what they want from the next game, and the answer you'll get will always, always include some recognition of the past games.

Of course we want an interrogation. It would essentially be a rundown of everything that's happened up until ME3. What would an interrogation include? An interrogator asking us about our past experiences, our choices, our motives, the story up until this point. It's a dream come true for ME1 & ME2 players.

... But if they intend to make the game standalone - again - this kind of thing simply will not do. New players will start the game with a conversation they won't understand in any way whatsoever. Do you really think they'll do that?

At this point, I think we'll just have to take what we can get in terms of callbacks and references to the previous games.

Modifié par Nightwriter, 04 novembre 2010 - 06:15 .

[joey_mork84]

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

By this point, you all must have heard of the proposed trial/imprisonment theory which essentially states that Shepard will be tracked down and taken into custody by Alliance and/or Council personnel for the length of the gap separating ME2 and ME3*. Now that I think about it: wouldn't it be real cool if ME3 started with some kind of interrogation (whether it be as part of the trial -- should it ever actually happen -- or otherwise)?

Imagine, a scene where Shepard is being interrogated. I personally think this would work wonders; especially for an imported Shepard (even more especially for one who also went through ME1). This would be an opportunity to go over the majority of your past decisions from the moment you touched ME1 until the moment you were completely done with ME2 with that Shepard. It would add meaning to the universe and more character to your Shepard. It would also be a good way of "welcoming" any new comers since it covers the past, but it would obviously play out differently if it's not an import (in a way such that it introduces and possibly explains what has happened rather than going over it).

Discuss, I guess. I know I would totally love that.

* There are many reasons justifying this. Look here.

This would make for a fantastic start to ME3. I love this idea and support it all the way. Now that you've put this in my head, if ME3 starts off any other way, I'm going to be disappointed lmao

[Epic777]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Paragons really fear the biting in the arse, don't they?

 
While I agree me3 needs more consequences I fear that could lead to "hindsight" gaming. 

[KuldarYldrad]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Paragons really fear the biting in the arse, don't they?

Who said debriefing ends well for Shepard?

Don't see all white or black, try gray.

Modifié par KuldarYldrad, 04 novembre 2010 - 06:35 .

[kaimanaMM]

Interrogation?  Why not.  Don't most Part 2's and Part 3's start with a recap of 'Previously on ... '.

Trial?  No.

Whether you liked the story or not, whether you felt Shepard wasn't Shepard enough or not, ME2 was both a continuation of Shepard's story as well as a stand alone title.  Which is what we've been told ME3 will be.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Nightwriter wrote...

Ask a long time fan what they want from the next game, and the answer you'll get will always, always include some recognition of the past games.

Of course we want an interrogation. It would essentially be a rundown of everything that's happened up until ME3. What would an interrogation include? An interrogator asking us about our past experiences, our choices, our motives, the story up until this point. It's a dream come true for ME1 & ME2 players.

... But if they intend to make the game standalone - again - this kind of thing simply will not do. New players will start the game with a conversation they won't understand in any way whatsoever. Do you really think they'll do that?

At this point, I think we'll just have to take what we can get in terms of callbacks and references to the previous games.

I think you might have missed something I said in the OP, Night. This could also work for the ever-important new comers, but it would have to be presented differently (i.e. not the same as it would for an imported save).

[Moiaussi]

Nightwriter wrote...

Ask a long time fan what they want from the next game, and the answer you'll get will always, always include some recognition of the past games.

Of course we want an interrogation. It would essentially be a rundown of everything that's happened up until ME3. What would an interrogation include? An interrogator asking us about our past experiences, our choices, our motives, the story up until this point. It's a dream come true for ME1 & ME2 players.

... But if they intend to make the game standalone - again - this kind of thing simply will not do. New players will start the game with a conversation they won't understand in any way whatsoever. Do you really think they'll do that?

At this point, I think we'll just have to take what we can get in terms of callbacks and references to the previous games.

They could always add an extra scene that only triggers if an ME2 game is carried forward. They could even do it as a DLC so that it wouldn't take up extra disc space. Alternatively, it could be non-interactive, in which case it would have default answers for those who haven't played ME1 and 2 and carried forward answers for those who have.

[D.Sharrah]

Why not a nice compromise...you could make it a "trial", like the "trial" with Saren in ME. Shepard could even appear in holographic form (maybe even go back and forth b/w who is in hologram and who is in person)...I think that the perfect set-up is to have the VS presenting evidence to the council regarding your actions in ME 2 - gives you a chance to explain/justify your actions (choose if new game, review if import)...



Although this could end up being the last bridging DLC too...

[Nightwriter]

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

I think you might have missed something I said in the OP, Night. This could also work for the ever-important new comers, but it would have to be presented differently (i.e. not the same as it would for an imported save).

No, no, I read it! I swear! Scout's honor!

*tries to do the scout's honor hand signal, fails*

Anyway, I feel this is still iffy. You're still starting the game by giving an enormous amount of focus to the two previous games. I can't really see a scenario where new players wouldn't be totally blown away by everything they realize they've missed out on.

But hey, I really think BioWare should throw this whole concern for new players thing out the window now. It's the last installment for crying out loud. I can understand new players starting from game two, but game three? We should be focusing on closure at this point and really bringing home the events of the first two games, not trying to accomodate new gamers at the expense of the old ones. Doesn't everyone think it's time we started treating this like a trilogy?

[D.Sharrah]

Why not make the start in prison concept compulsory...if you a new comer to the game, you get a crawl explaining the events( and maybe even the bridging DLC free)...if you have imported - "the trial" was the last bridging DLC and you pick things up in prison...

[Kaiser Shepard]

If we indeed are to have an interrogation by Kaisley or a trial before the Council, they should be based on the ones from Judge Dredd.

BioWare needs to pay more homage to the classics.

[Undertone]

This sounds so awesome - not only that but they should make it similar to the Saren trial in the first game and add the same dark music it had back there. It would be so ironic (and awesome) that Shepard the hero (whether paragon or renegade) is trialed just like Saren.



As for morality:



Please don't let Paragon players get away with it so easy. I am sick and tired of the so called benevolent, idealistic paragons get rewarded, escape every bad condition or everything working out for them. It doesn't happen that way. Renegade = practical but so far it's completely opposite

[Stazro]

Perhaps we won't start at level 1. ME1 had 60 levels and it was really hard to get there, while ME2 had thirty and I usually spend half of the gametime on that level. Then we wouldn't need a "reboot" like awakened from the dead or the "KotoR-syndrome (serious memory loss)" in order to explain why Shepard needs to start from scratch again.

[kaimanaMM]

What is Shepard winding up in prison for?

According to the wiki, Spectres are governed only by the Council. And even then, the Council rarely involve themselves in how a Spectre resolves whatever problem they are assigned to. 

A Spectre's status can only be revoked in the case of gross misconduct. But ultimately, they are considered above the law and are able to resolve any given situation however they choose, be it with diplomacy or by force.

So, as an example, let's say Shepard played nice with the Council. The Council specifically says that as long as Shep stays in the Terminus, s/he can keep his/her Spectre status. In addition, neither the Council or the Alliance have jurisdiction in the Terminus systems where Shepard is operating during the events of ME2. 

So Shep would be put on trial for ... what exactly? 

Interrogation I can see.

Trial, imprisonment?  That's a stretch.

[Zulu_DFA]

Tax evasion.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Nightwriter wrote...

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

I think you might have missed something I said in the OP, Night. This could also work for the ever-important new comers, but it would have to be presented differently (i.e. not the same as it would for an imported save).

No, no, I read it! I swear! Scout's honor!

*tries to do the scout's honor hand signal, fails*

Anyway, I feel this is still iffy. You're still starting the game by giving an enormous amount of focus to the two previous games. I can't really see a scenario where new players wouldn't be totally blown away by everything they realize they've missed out on.

But hey, I really think BioWare should throw this whole concern for new players thing out the window now. It's the last installment for crying out loud. I can understand new players starting from game two, but game three? We should be focusing on closure at this point and really bringing home the events of the first two games, not trying to accomodate new gamers at the expense of the old ones. Doesn't everyone think it's time we started treating this like a trilogy?

Let's just say I'm optimistic about ME3.

[D.Sharrah]

Kaiser,



That's perfect...it doesn't have to be "falsified" evidence, just evidence taken out of context...we already have the precedents in place that the council barely listens to Shepard anyways, it would be a perfect way to have continuity with what we woudl expect from them from the other games...

[jlb524]

I do like this idea, Fiery.

Zulu_DFA wrote...

http://social.biowar...68008/3#4977336

Wow, that's an impressive list of crimes...I like how you ended it with Tax Evasion. 

[Undertone]

Indeed it's the last game, cut the "new people" factor. Something they should have done with the second game already.

[D.Sharrah]

Maybe we don't have the reason that Shepard is on trial...yet.

Zulu does provide a reasonable list of crimes also...

Modifié par D.Sharrah, 04 novembre 2010 - 07:07 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

jlb524 wrote...

I do like this idea, Fiery.

Zulu_DFA wrote...

http://social.biowar...68008/3#4977336

Wow, that's an impressive list of crimes...I like how you ended it with Tax Evasion. 

See that, Zulu? There is a reason I told you to dig out that post of yours!

[Zulu_DFA]

Nightwriter wrote...

Doesn't everyone think it's time we started treating this like a trilogy?

I don't understand why this "trilogy" thing is considered so weighty against the "stand alone" policy.



One of the classical examples of a "trilogy" is Alexander Duma's trilogy about D'Artagnan and the Musketeers. The second story takes place 20 years after the first, and the third takes place 10 years after the second... And even D'Artagnan's achievment of the second story (Musketeers' captaincy) is "retconned" it the third, where he has to earn it again.

[ResidentNoob]

Wow. This is an awesome idea. I've been a longtime fan of Zulu's trial theory for a while now. (Well, except for his point of losing the squadmates, but that's not what this is about.)

If ME3 doesn't begin like this, I'll be rather disappointed. (Unless, of course, Bioware's alternative is better.)

One question, though: is it a calm, questioning interrogation, like the Paragon path on Elias Kelham?
Or a hostile, kick-the-crap-out-of-him, style interrogation, like...well, the Renegade Kelham path?