294 réponses à ce sujet

[Spectre_907]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

jlb524 wrote...
Wow, that's an impressive list of crimes...I like how you ended it with Tax Evasion.

It worked for Al Capone and Mickey Coen, might as well work for Shepard. Especially now, that Bailey is in charge of C-Sec.

But this is made under the assumption that Udina is chosen as the human representative on the Council. I do not see how this could work if Anderson is made the human representative.

[Dean_the_Young]

Anderson could be overruled politically.



Anderson could also feel he has no choice because he thinks Shepard has gone too far. He wouldn't tell you about Ash/Kaiden when he wasn't sure what you were up to: after ME2/intermedium period, he may think you have gone too far, regardless of what you think.



Or, a third option, Anderson is confronted/believes that arresting Shepard is preferable to what will come if he isn't arrested now: such as later having to try and kill him. Arresting Shepard, while not desirable, gets him out of the way and under control before others insist on more permanent corrections.

[Zulu_DFA]

@ Spectre_907



I think both Retribution and Inquisition are canon stuff. If Anderson was a Councillor in someone's ME2, in ME3 it is going to be revealed that he ceased to be one shortly before the events of Retribution took place (like, his term in office expired, or the Alliance simply revoked him).



I don't really care, but suggest that you guys be bracing for it, just in case.

[Iakus]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

@ Spectre_907

I think both Retribution and Inquisition are canon stuff. If Anderson was a Councillor in someone's ME2, in ME3 it is going to be revealed that he ceased to be one shortly before the events of Retribution took place (like, his term in office expired, or the Alliance simply revoked him).

I don't really care, but suggest that you guys be bracing for it, just in case.

Meh, it's not like our choices mattered much to begin with.

[Moiaussi]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

I don't understand why this "trilogy" thing is considered so weighty against the "stand alone" policy.

One of the classical examples of a "trilogy" is Alexander Duma's trilogy about D'Artagnan and the Musketeers. The second story takes place 20 years after the first, and the third takes place 10 years after the second... And even D'Artagnan's achievment of the second story (Musketeers' captaincy) is "retconned" it the third, where he has to earn it again.

To be fair, it isn't as if the Musketeers don't have wild enough exploits to get themselves demoted whenever convenient to the plot Given the King they could even have gotten demoted arbitrarily....

[Moiaussi]

Much more likely some sort of trumped up treason charge for working with Cerberus. If the Collector base is left intact it might even have some validity.

[Zulu_DFA]

Moiaussi wrote...

Much more likely some sort of trumped up treason charge for working with Cerberus. If the Collector base is left intact it might even have some validity.

Of course. All that long list of criminal counts will come on top of this. And, as I've suggested, it may even be TIM himself who is going to "arrange" the trial for Shepard... framing Anderson and his anti-Cerberus escapade in Retribution as immediate source of Shepard's misfortune.

[D.Sharrah]

Perhaps we will learn that the reason Anderson leaves his current post is because the Alliance/Council has made the decision to arrest/put on trial (whatever you want to call it) Shepard...he has been a staunch supporter and perhaps this is the proverbial straw that breaks the camels back...

[Destroy Raiden_]

I do like the idea of Shep being caught and put on trial it'd have to be really well written the writers may even want to look at cold war till present day actual spy trials to help Base presentation and any high drama off of it maybe even get a well known novelist of the genre to write at least this part I'm just worried if BW does it they'll be too worried over newbies coming in rather then really developing the story for those already invested.



Now that I think of it they could even pull the writers from the New Battle star Galactica to help in making space, drama, and high stakes interrogation scenes.



But anyway the way I thought it would/could go would be shep gets captured goes to trial Shep gets to speak in his/her defense on some matters the player would need to listen to the questions and answer in para, neutral, and ren ways (ie not all para, not all neutral, not all ren) they'd need to combo these answers in order to get out if players go all one side or the other they would go to jail and have to work within the prison to get supplies needed to break out. We could also get right off the bat come backs with curtain ME2 characters giving their help with either falsifying, stealing, or delaying trial sensitive materials and later enlisting in helping shep escape from prison the player would play as these people too for instance I image Tali, Garrus, Kasumi, and Miranda all making appearances in helping in this matter.



I like the idea of an interrogation involving Ashly/Kaiden but not as them being a spector if they became spectors they'd have zero reason to work with Shep long term but sense in 2 they where already working for the Alliance they could come in under same banner and interrogate they could be real or under Anderson's order to fake like they're out for blood but eventually they too start aiding in sheps escape from prision and later amending of his/her character as the game progresses.



Some prior comments were made like why wouldn't the Krogan or Liara as SB stop the trial and get shep out or bust him/her out of jail on the get go? Primarily both these parties know their own limits and also would not interfere insuch a high stakes trial w/o sheps specifically requesting such aid.



As far as if you killed off you're shep in 2 then you would as BW says no longer be able to use that sheps profile in 3 no load up or load option would be available I assume for that particular shep and you'd just start and customize you're new shep and the arrest, trial, and escape would progress.



I assume the escape part would be where tutorial would be this also brings me to the difficulty setting maybe in addition to asking on the main game screen if you want a M or F character they can also ask you are you a seasoned ME player or Just starting the ME world this would effect the difficult of the escape are the enemies harder ? Do more routes become available to you through out the escape level? Are you asked to do more things or less? Seasoned players would get more things while newbies would not so they can be eased into the game play where as seasoned would have more situations to attempt to make it more challenging for them. Also asking about you're organizational alignment would help too do you stay with Cerberus or would you rather be with the Citadel I'd hope BW would allow for a third Stand Alone option where the SB would be as boss as possible and by boss I mean she just says here's the info she can give you small amounts of creds but you'd primarily in this instance have to loot, scavenge,sell, and pirate to get more.



Now I suppose another question we'd have to all hammer out would be lets say this trial does happen once you break out if you wanted to be Citadel aligned how does the council get you back w/ Sepctor status?



Here is my theory on this:



Forces beyond the Council ( Reaper lackeys most likely) inflated truths, and trumped up charges that could not be verified to get you out of the way the council was unable to help sense their involvement would make the reaper threat seem like a cup of spilled milk



Or the Council had to arrest you put the screws to you in order to be sure you really did have the galactic interest at heart when you worked with Cerberus ( no matter how unwilling some of us where)





Oh and for the record BW sense the question of why are you working with Terrorist aka Cerberus will come up I want to be able to say not only via summarized text on the wheel but it to physically come out of sheps mouth I was dead, brought back by them, and was forced to work with them I don't want yeah I knew they where terrorist and I worked with them anyway line to come up unless I'm ren! I didn't like how spector girl assumed I worked for them of my own will if I had it my way TIM would've had to install that chip to make me work for him. I wouldn't even volunteer for him.



As far as assistant roles who do you think should help you in trial mode and escape mode these people in my theory would also be on the new Normandy/ SR2 after you board it the player would also donn the roles of these individuals for a brief time while they assist ( kind of how you did w/ Joker).



Trial Mode helpers:



Miranda - Her business smarts and ability to read people will aid player in her being able to stall the oppositions lawyers and steel plans on meetings. And provide false documents.



Kasumi (assume Thane is ill and npc for 3) - She will break into offices and steel and or replace evidence from opposing lawyers.



Escape Mode:



Tali - Using her tech skills will hack cameras, open doors, disrupt mechs and comms during prison escape can even trigger alarms to go off or entire cell blocks to open up to add to chaos



Garrus - Escape vehicle driver and will assist in fighting off any armed combatants assigned to keep Shepard safe during transit to safe house. Player would also drive the vechical used in escape btw.

[Dean_the_Young]

Moiaussi wrote...

Much more likely some sort of trumped up treason charge for working with Cerberus. If the Collector base is left intact it might even have some validity.

It would have validity even if you didn't: plenty of other things Shepard does for Cerberus, and plenty of other occasions you give them tech as well.

[NanQuan]

Undertone wrote...

As for morality:

Please don't let Paragon players get away with it so easy. I am sick and tired of the so called benevolent, idealistic paragons get rewarded, escape every bad condition or everything working out for them. It doesn't happen that way. Renegade = practical but so far it's completely opposite

See, I'd actually be disappointed as a paragon if all I got was a debrief while renegades got an interragation. The latter sounds more interesting and more fun. Plus, like the OP said, it's an opportunity to flesh out Shepard's character in a heated interragation. A debrief would just... well it'd be boring.

[Destroy Raiden_]

mineralica says: " Sheparв was interrogated in a such way that we should use face editor after that? Creepy. " Wow the damage they'd have to inflict! First you'd be in the prison hospital in acomma before trial!



I was thinking more along the lines you get caught tossed into uber fortified jail cell one with not only mechs guarding you but ceiling turrets pointed at you're cell and to top it off a bomb collar then shep looks in the mirror and thats when you get to customize what he/she looks like either that or a guard hands you you're prison ID then you get to do customization.



Zulu_DFA wrote: "Guys, have you ever heard of a phenomenon called "judicial error"? It's when a person not guilty of the crime in question gets convicted. For whatever reason. Crooked cops, bribed judge, incompetent jury, unfortunate circumstantial evidence.



In our case, the ultimate reason, of course, will be the necessity to bust Shepard down to level one, strip him of all skills, squadmates, weapons, give a tutorial level and possibly a pretext fo character customization, as the topic suggests. In-universe it will be the politics of Mass Effect. TSB's intel says, that the Council was considering Shepard's suspension immediately after the Battle of Citadel, even before all these Cerberus stories.



An Asari company Baria Frontiers is blown up. Shepard, known for his Cerberus connection is on the site. Cerberus are pro-Human terrorists. Council Spectre Tela Vasir is killed.



All right, let's take a look at Shepard's criminal count in its entirety:



Destroying the Thorian, Killing/releasing the Rachni queen, Detonating nuclear devices on Virmire and Pragia, Hi-jacking the Normandy SR-1, Failing to report back to the Citadel after surviving an unknown assailant's attack on the Normandy SR-1, Continuing to feign own death, while associating self with Cerberus, a terrorist group and an avowed enemy of the Council and the System Alliance, Having an illegal AI system aboard a private space vehicle, creating a sentient space vehicle with military grade equipment and with firepower of a heavy cruiser (at least), Sheltering convicted and wanted criminals aboard the ship,Unauthorized relations of unclear nature with reclusive and quarantined races, including the Geth.Murder (including that of a Council spectre), Terrorism, Unlawful detention, Torture, Burglary, Abusive language and conduct, Smuggling, Tax evasion. Now, even if your particular Shepard has missed the opportunity to commit every and all of that, and although most of that stuff was done in the Terminus Systems, that are lawless by definition (but some of it, including the gravest last count is very well ubiquitous), it still makes sense to put an end to your activities, if only in order to prevent drawing public ire to the Spectres and Council policies. But actually it more looks like you've been long preparing to go by Saren's steps and stage a massive coup to overthrogh the Council and crown yourself Emperor or something (which must be even more of a concern to the Old Council with Paragon Shepard's choices)." - Why do I usally like what you say is it because you're avatar looks like Morpheus? I don't know...I don't care I agree



Also we can add in a few more charges:



Having illegal tech mods ( you're for all intents and purposes a cyborg now)

Illegal wire tapping or otherwise spy devices ( they would through this in because you're a cyborg and could have spy ware everywhere!)

Kidnapping

Extortion ( Mouse and others)

Being under the influence of Alcohol while on duty (those drinkers know who you are)

Falsification of documents (if player has rewritten their background from 1,2, or 3 ie use be Earth born switched to Colony)

Illegal discharge of weapons in public space ( Spector girl and hostage)

Endangerment of civilian population (for every time you fought indoors)

Destruction of personal property ( also for fighting indoors)

Stealing SR1

Tax evasion and possible fraud

Fraternization (crew LI)

Endangerment of Council and or causing of death of counsel

AI tampering ( EDI and hacking mechs on Omega)

Cooperating with known terrorist and other groups ( Leigion, and Cerberus)

Several counts of illegal explosion ( Vermire, they blame U for spector girls bomb, ect)

Destruction of Purgatory ,Deaths of guards and inmates on Purgatory, Suing you for Guards lost wages

Stealing and using illegal tech and weapons ( all blue suns, Eclipse base raids)

Being a clone and or cyborg



As you can see the list could go on and on I'm sure even more people could come up with things that can be twisted around and made into crimes or down right just added on but I just started thinking about key witnesses who would people want as key witnesses in the trial they would give bad or good reviews I image if this is a stacked hearing many of the good reviews would be found to have some grounds for not allowing them to speak on you're behalf but for those speaking bad I'd say:



Hostage of Spector girl if you shot her if not she speaks good

Blake

Fist

Harkin

Kolyat if you shot him



Those who might slid under the radar and speak on you're defense would be



Oriana

Bring Down the Sky girl

Shiala aka Feros Asari

Hostage of Spector girl if you didn't shoot her

Couple who fought in 1 over dead Brother/Husband's child

Mr. Batia if you helped him

Quarians ( one on Citadel, One on Ilium, One on Varren run planet)

[Googlesaurus]

I would like Shepard to be interrogated, then placed into a mental institution. All very hush-hush of course. 

Modifié par Googlesaurus, 05 novembre 2010 - 12:00 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

NanQuan wrote...

Undertone wrote...

As for morality:

Please don't let Paragon players get away with it so easy. I am sick and tired of the so called benevolent, idealistic paragons get rewarded, escape every bad condition or everything working out for them. It doesn't happen that way. Renegade = practical but so far it's completely opposite

See, I'd actually be disappointed as a paragon if all I got was a debrief while renegades got an interragation. The latter sounds more interesting and more fun. Plus, like the OP said, it's an opportunity to flesh out Shepard's character in a heated interragation. A debrief would just... well it'd be boring.

Exactly. It would be so cheap if only Renegades got an interrogation. Paragons may be the good guys at the end, but they're still killers. They've still done the same basic things a Renegade has. Zulu's list of criminal counts applies to Paragons just the same.

Modifié par FieryPhoenix7, 05 novembre 2010 - 06:21 .

[Fixers0]

Well, we are more or less forced to comit those crimes, i mean even though there is one, the alternative for most of this crimes is never shown to us and we are forced just to go along with it.

Also in Mass Effect 1 there was a clear messages that we can do what ever we wanted to get the Job done (Stop Saren) but in Mass Effect 2 the developers doesn't to care about what whe are doing, as we can still do it our way without any repercussions and now in Mass Effect 3 they are going to put us on trial for something they Did't care About in ME2.

In short an interrogation would't make sense, why should they suddenly decide to arrest while they could have done that over the course of ME2 and how i'ts not like there going to board your ship or something and the Shepard refuses to fight back and immidately surrenders to them as that would be so Stupid.

Modifié par Fixers0, 05 novembre 2010 - 07:19 .

[Gibb_Shepard]

Sounds great, and will be an awesome continuation of events. I don't see how this could not work for non-importers. The interrogation/debreifing can be simply done in a different way, recapping the new comers on past events.



Sounds like a great idea to me.

[AdmiralCheez]

I'll be back to read the whole thread later (and expect this post to be edited because of it) but I am LIKING this idea. Excellent way to knock you back down to level one with no equipment/squaddies and a great opportunity to putz with your face again. Also, having Shepard finally show some weakness is a great theme for ME3.

[Hyper_gateway]

Just finished reading all the pages and here's my thought so far:

Interrogation? may be not that simple......

In the beginning Shepard somehow got caught by C-Sec or another Spectre, his spectre status is stripped by Udina (who will the the "leading concuilor" in ME3). Your team is disbanded by order from Council, all your evidences are erased from omni-tool. Finally, without any prove to defend yourself, Shepard is locked up in prison.

I always found there are connections between Udina and Cerberus; Udina need all the helps from TIM to take down Anderson, in return, TIM will then have a power ally in Council (and both of them are very post-human).

If you would ask me, Cerberus will become the ultimate villian in mass effect universe and will be seen in further ME related games.

[Dean_the_Young]

Hyper_gateway wrote...

Just finished reading all the pages and here's my thought so far:

Interrogation? may be not that simple......

In the beginning Shepard somehow got caught by C-Sec or another Spectre, his spectre status is stripped by Udina (who will the the "leading concuilor" in ME3). Your team is disbanded by order from Council, all your evidences are erased from omni-tool. Finally, without any prove to defend yourself, Shepard is locked up in prison.

I always found there are connections between Udina and Cerberus; Udina need all the helps from TIM to take down Anderson, in return, TIM will then have a power ally in Council (and both of them are very post-human).

When in-game, even in-universe, has Udina had any ties to Cerberus? When Shadow Broker came up, it was Anderson who was meeting Cerberus agents on the Citadel.

Moreover, where do you get the idea that TIM doesn't like Anderson on the Council? Anderson is pro-human as well.

If you would ask me, Cerberus will become the ultimate villian in mass effect universe and will be seen in further ME related games.

Why?

The Krogan species does more harm in a given year that Cerberus's worst. The Batarians and Terminus attack more colonies, enslave infinitely more people.

Cerberus is a small group with some particularly nasty, but galactically small, crimes. A group, mind you, which has done more to oppose the Reapers than Anderson and the Council combined.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 05 novembre 2010 - 10:06 .

[KuldarYldrad]

I hope we can destroy Cerberus in ME3.

Not that I personnaly hate it, it's just that I don't want to see them in futur ME game or novels. Want to see an other part of the ME universe. For the moment recent novels are all about Cerberus, it's boring.

[LordNige]

For Shepard to survive ME2 you need 2 squadmates, 2 squadmates is all it takes to perform a stealth operation to rescue Shep.

[Zulu_DFA]

Liara and Feron will be rescuing Shepard. Mark my word.

[Fixers0]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Liara and Feron will be rescuing Shepard. Mark my word.

Not if we haven't completed LOTSB in our import.

[fongiel24]

I like this Shepard imprisonment/interrogation scenario. If Shepard escapes and becomes a fugitive, it also gives an excuse as to why we would get to use the face editor again - Shepard undergoes some form of plastic surgery to hide his identity. After that we'd end up with a Splinter Cell Conviction kind of vibe for a while, as you're this embittered, pissed off ex-Spectre looking to settle a grudge or clear your name with few allies, no resources, and able to depend only on yourself.

[KuldarYldrad]

Why having to use face editor again? We got this option in ME 2 because there was new graphics. In ME 3 it'll be the same graphics.
If you use an import save, you keep your face.
If you start a new game there is a face editor before the game start and that's all.

Modifié par KuldarYldrad, 05 novembre 2010 - 03:09 .