75 réponses à ce sujet

[LdyShayna]

It's legitimate to post feedback on such things in this thread. If you disagree with the gist of the argument, you may do so, but calling people whiners or something isn't terribly constructive.



I, personally, don't understand the need to have every single possible promo item in order to psychologically view the game as complete. That is an EXTREMELY foreign concept to me. If someone wishes to say they dislike this practice and/or would like a method for "completing" their game, however, they are perfectly justified in saying so, especially if they do so in a rational, constructive manner.



Let's lay off of the debate as to whether or not this thread should exist, and instead focus on the subject at hand, please.

[H8Cr1me]

@Jab0r: Right, I'm sure the only posts the devs pay attention to are the ones they post themselves....



As I have said before, I am ranting and raving because I have nothing better to do on this Sunday night. I would have been playing DAJ but it's busted. If you don't like this thread, shove off. I am reading about other peoples opinions on in-game items. You can put your "Super Forum Hero" suit away for now. There is nobody to save here

[Varenus Luckmann]

cyanrabbit wrote...
[...]

After all, I am waiting for the great RPG that DAO will hopefully be, not for ridiculously shallow flashgame that offer little rewards as you offer fishes to dolphins. thus it was my bad and my sole stupidity to even start playing such a marketing prank.

But but but... I want the iiiiteeeeeems.
Now you've gone and made me feel bad for indulging the marketing department. Hopefully they'll read the three near-identical surveys I sent them, though, repeatedly explaining to them that they should shoot their marketing boss.

Modifié par Varenus Luckmann, 26 octobre 2009 - 04:59 .

[Jab0r]

If you don't like this thread, shove off. I am reading about other peoples opinions on in-game items.

Just for the record, it is really this attitude that I am arguing against. Nothing kills online communities faster than a couple of bigheads who think the boards should revolve around them.

[Varenus Luckmann]

Jab0r wrote...

If you don't like this thread, shove off. I am reading about other peoples opinions on in-game items.

Just for the record, it is really this attitude that I am arguing against. Nothing kills online communities faster than a couple of bigheads who think the boards should revolve around them.

Now, the ones whining for the sake of whining... by all means, go ahead and shoot them.

But it's a well-known fact that the world revolves around me, and you cannot prove otherwise. :innocent:

[Shattered Shield]

LdyShayna wrote...

It's legitimate to post feedback on such things in this thread. If you disagree with the gist of the argument, you may do so, but calling people whiners or something isn't terribly constructive.

I, personally, don't understand the need to have every single possible promo item in order to psychologically view the game as complete. That is an EXTREMELY foreign concept to me. If someone wishes to say they dislike this practice and/or would like a method for "completing" their game, however, they are perfectly justified in saying so, especially if they do so in a rational, constructive manner.

Let's lay off of the debate as to whether or not this thread should exist, and instead focus on the subject at hand, please.

the lady has spoken heed her words or she shall bring the doom of the locked thread upon us

[Varenus Luckmann]

LdyShayna wrote...

[...]

I, personally, don't understand the need to have every single possible promo item in order to psychologically view the game as complete. That is an EXTREMELY foreign concept to me. If someone wishes to say they dislike this practice and/or would like a method for "completing" their game, however, they are perfectly justified in saying so, especially if they do so in a rational, constructive manner.

[...]

Is it so strange to want it all? Sure, one item here, one item there. But it eventually adds up. The small things in Baldur's Gate II definately added to my gaming experience and my party dynamics. If one player has something, isn't it natural that one would want access to that too - instead of being artificially restricted access to said.. stuff?

And even if you don't care about the items themselves, don't you see how or consider that it's an extremely tacky business practice? It adds very little, but annoys a fair amount of people. Annoy is almost worse than anger, since it keeps sitting there. Like a small little devil on your shoulder. Nagging. Nagging. Nagging.

At least you can ban whiners.

[H8Cr1me]

I really appreciate what they are trying to do with DAJ. The fact that it is free and can get you in-game items is kinda cool. I actually thought they did a really good job with the game itself. The bug came about when I tried logging back into my account a day after beating the game and finding out that they took my achievements and items as if it were cake and I was some fat kid. I actually told them in the survey (that I didn't get my achivement for) that I would pay up to $1 for a few additional quests. Mainly because of the casual experience and the fact that the story related to Dragon Age, even if it was kinda lackluster. Getting the a couple of the achievements were kind of fun and made the game a little interesting. I am just a little mad that I went through the task of getting them and then they dissapeared. I started to take a look at all the unlockable items and realized that they aren't all that great when I was comparing them to the items I was getting in DAJ. So its like big deal. I am not going to pay a premium for them in the DDE, CE or future iterations.

@Jabor: Now do you have an opinion on this or my original post, or do you just want to comment on the "tone" in which you read it?

Modifié par H8Cr1me, 26 octobre 2009 - 05:28 .

[LdyShayna]

Varenus Luckmann wrote...
And even if you don't care about the items themselves, don't you see how or consider that it's an extremely tacky business practice? 

Nope.  Hence my post.  To me, itt's just little bonus items, and I don't see the big deal one way or the other.  Heck, I'm not going to get all of the bonus items for DAJ, and that is pretty much low hanging fruit as far as that kinda stuff goes.  Just don't see what the hubbub's about.

Other people do feel strongly, however, and should feel free to express that, as long as they don't get all insulting and stuff, as per normal discussion rules.

[vyvexthorne]

I played it for about an hour and got bored with it. I got one download thingy so I guess that's good enough. There's no way I would ever want to play it 3 times through. All these items that come with the games and pretend to be special items will easily be available later on and probably won't turn out to be so very special after all. They'll most likely make the beginning of the game easier for some people... Then those same people will come back and complain that the games too easy.

[Jab0r]

My first thought would be to try and address this spontaneous misconception that my name has an "n" in it

As far as unlockable items go, I am fairly ambivalent. I purchased CE for the bonus disc and the feelies, I don't really care about the extra items (especially since I'd be toolsetting them in anyway if I'd bought SE). Likewise, I'm playing Journeys because I'm a big fan of Garin's work, and the extra Origins items are just a nice extra.

My primary objections were the tone and the repetition, and I believe there is room for rational discussion of almost any DA:O topic in these boards. Key word being "rational".

[Varenus Luckmann]

Jab0r wrote...

My first thought would be to try and address this spontaneous misconception that my name has an "n" in it
As far as unlockable items go, I am fairly ambivalent. I purchased CE for the bonus disc and the feelies, I don't really care about the extra items (especially since I'd be toolsetting them in anyway if I'd bought SE). Likewise, I'm playing Journeys because I'm a big fan of Garin's work, and the extra Origins items are just a nice extra.

My primary objections were the tone and the repetition, and I believe there is room for rational discussion of almost any DA:O topic in these boards. Key word being "rational".

Awesome. Can I have yours? I haven't misspelled your name even once!

Modifié par Varenus Luckmann, 26 octobre 2009 - 05:39 .

[Jab0r]

Sure. Once the game comes out, I'll message you instructions on toolsetting them in.

...you did get the game for PC, right?

[Sornin]

instead of being artificially restricted access to said.. stuff?

This is the aspect I dislike most about promotional content - it creates two groups, the "haves" and the "have-nots", and for no consumer-friendly reason. It is a marketing ploy designed to create artificial demand by allowing certain things to only be achieved in a finite amount of time. While this may make sense in real life - you can only hand out a finite number of tangible items in some promotional event - this is senseless in a digital medium as digital content has no such constraints.

Every single promotional item that is locked out to consumers will still exist in their game client, they are just forbidden to use it as they did not, for example, play through a tedious flash game three times. Does that make any sense? Why is that a requirement for using an item already created? Is this some sort of payment for testing a beta version of a mediocre flash game?

It makes sense for certain content to be handed out based on payment - if you buy DLC, you support the developer financially, and thus should get the extra content. This nice thing about this is that this content never vanishes - latecomers can always access this content by paying for it. However, these marketing games and other such nonsense we must participate in to unlock content is an artificial barrier of entry that really serves no identifiable pro-consumer purpose and, as they are almost always time-limited, prevent latecomers from ever benefiting.

If all of these events were really about fun and providing a better customer experience, I would like to see how many people would participate with no carrot at the end. I am willing to bet far fewer would, which strongly indicates that people feel obligated to do unenjoyable things for a reward.

Hmmm, sounds sort of like showing up at work.

[H8Cr1me]

Why toolset the items into the game, that kind of breaks the game doesn't it? Because where does it end, why not just toolset in the ring of almighty awesomeness +10?

@Jab0r: If you read my first two posts, they are perfectly rational and valid issues I had with the in-game items. If by repetition you mean my other forum topic, it is a related but different topic. So if you didn't perceive the tone as "rational" is it more rational to hijack someones thread trying to "discipline" them?

Modifié par H8Cr1me, 26 octobre 2009 - 05:50 .

[Varenus Luckmann]

Jab0r wrote...

Sure. Once the game comes out, I'll message you instructions on toolsetting them in.
...you
did get the game for PC, right?

Toolsetting is just not as neat. But thanks. I've even started a group with the sole intent to find ways to get all the "extra" stuff into the game without jumping through the hoops. Naturally, someone will have to jump through hoops from the get-go, but.. umm.. yeah.
Membercount? Me. ../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png

H8Cr1me wrote...
Why toolset the items into the game, that kind of breaks the game doesn't it? Because where does it end, why not
just toolset in the ring of almighty awesomeness +10?

When you toolset it into the game, you toolset it in a fashion that is identical to the way it's implemented as if you had an official code to unlock the item. Otherwise, yeah, you might aswell just cheat your hat off.

I'd never accept something like simply adding all the items to a barrel at the beginning of the game.

Sornin wrote...

This is the aspect I dislike most about promotional content - it creates two groups, the "haves" and the "have-nots", and for no consumer-friendly reason. It is a marketing ploy designed to create artificial demand by allowing certain things to only be achieved in a finite amount of time. While this may make sense in real life - you can only hand out a finite number of tangible items in some promotional event - this is senseless in a digital medium as digital content has no such constraints.

Every single promotional item that is locked out to consumers will still exist in their game client, they are just forbidden to use it as they did not, for example, play through a tedious flash game three times. Does that make any sense? Why is that a requirement for using an item already created? Is this some sort of payment for testing a beta version of a mediocre flash game?

It makes sense for certain content to be handed out based on payment - if you buy DLC, you support the developer financially, and thus should get the extra content. This nice thing about this is that this content never vanishes - latecomers can always access this content by paying for it. However, these marketing games and other such nonsense we must participate in to unlock content is an artificial barrier of entry that really serves no identifiable pro-consumer purpose and, as they are almost always time-limited, prevent latecomers from ever benefiting.

If all of these events were really about fun and providing a better customer experience, I would like to see how many people would participate with no carrot at the end. I am willing to bet far fewer would, which strongly indicates that people feel obligated to do unenjoyable things for a reward.

Hmmm, sounds sort of like showing up at work.

This man speaks for me.
I truly dislike being the have-not.

Modifié par Varenus Luckmann, 26 octobre 2009 - 05:55 .

[H8Cr1me]

@Sornin: While I agree with your "haves" and "have-nots" statement. I don't entirely agree with your stance on DAJ. I thought the game, overall, was a better-than-average experience. While you could look at it's items and achievements as a pay off for testing a beta, most beta tests don't give you jack. So it's kind of hard to complain about that.

The question I ask myself now is; will i still play it when they release more content for it? If it didn't have the achivements that I had, and subsequently lost, I might have played more of it. But since I played it, earned achivements and items, and then lost them, I kind of lost the desire to play it anymore. Kind of like when I was at level 45 in COD4 and lost my savegame. It didn't matter how much new stuff they released for it, I had ZERO desire to play it after that.

[EDIT:] I was thinking of posting another thread discussing this topic with others that may have lost items they had, but I am afraid it will get hijacked by forum superheros that don't want people "whining" about a free product.

[EDIT:] Bah, what the hell...

Modifié par H8Cr1me, 26 octobre 2009 - 06:21 .

[Varenus Luckmann]

H8Cr1me wrote...
@Sornin: While I agree with your "haves" and "have-nots" statement. I don't entirely agree with your stance on DAJ. I thought the game, overall, was a better-than-average experience. While you could look at it's items and achievements as a pay off for testing a beta, most beta tests don't give you jack. So it's kind of hard to complain about that.

[...]

I understand your argument, but put yourselves in the shoes of someone that loathed DA:J. If I didn't have to, I wouldn't have participated in the beta to begin with. That's the difference. Getting extra stuff for participating in a beta you enjoy is great. Feeling obligated or forced to participate in a beta you hate is mind-numbing.

[Shattered Shield]

Varenus Luckmann wrote...

H8Cr1me wrote...
@Sornin: While I agree with your "haves" and "have-nots" statement. I don't entirely agree with your stance on DAJ. I thought the game, overall, was a better-than-average experience. While you could look at it's items and achievements as a pay off for testing a beta, most beta tests don't give you jack. So it's kind of hard to complain about that.

[...]

I understand your argument, but put yourselves in the shoes of someone that loathed DA:J. If I didn't have to, I wouldn't have participated in the beta to begin with. That's the difference. Getting extra stuff for participating in a beta you enjoy is great. Feeling obligated or forced to participate in a beta you hate is mind-numbing.

its like a person who loves to read but in english class they are told to read something for a grade....it spoils the reading because u are forced into it.

[H8Cr1me]

@Varenus & @Shattered: Yeah I guess that makes a lot of sense. If you want the items and the only way to get them is to jump through their hoops, or pay for them, that kinda sucks. Ultimately, they can keep their items. But I will be extremely pissed off if they do some goofy stuff with DLC quests. Just let me pay my little fee and be done with it. I don't want to have to buy some plutonium edition with a side of ranch, to get part of a world I have already paid for.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

H8Cr1me wrote...

@Varenus & @Shattered: Yeah I guess that makes a lot of sense. If you want the items and the only way to get them is to jump through their hoops, or pay for them, that kinda sucks. Ultimately, they can keep their items. But I will be extremely pissed off if they do some goofy stuff with DLC quests. Just let me pay my little fee and be done with it. I don't want to have to buy some plutonium edition with a side of ranch, to get part of a world I have already paid for.

You're worried about  3 measly CE items in a game that if thoroughly played through will prolly be upwards of 60-80 hours enough to continually complain about them ad nauseum? Really? Let it go already.

Shale and the blood armor are free with EVERY new copy, every single one be it a collectors edition or not. in an effort to combat the rediculous amount of software piracy from people who sound just like you do in this post, entitled to extra things without thinking they should have to pay anything for it.

If Bioware had cut huge chunks out of the game in order to profit on them, sure then you'd have a valid reason to get pissed and rant and rave about it. That just isn't the case though, and in order to continue to get content added to the game over time, you need additional income to pay for said content to be made, implimented, tested, etc.

The publishers and development teams are in the business (and thats exactly what it is, a business) to make money. Just because you feel you're entitled to a pre order bonus, or CE content doesn't make it true.

[Lord Clocks]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

You're worried about  3 measly CE items in a game that if thoroughly played through will prolly be upwards of 60-80 hours enough to continually complain about them ad nauseum? Really? Let it go already.

Shale and the blood armor are free with EVERY new copy, every single one be it a collectors edition or not. in an effort to combat the rediculous amount of software piracy from people who sound just like you do in this post, entitled to extra things without thinking they should have to pay anything for it.

If Bioware had cut huge chunks out of the game in order to profit on them, sure then you'd have a valid reason to get pissed and rant and rave about it. That just isn't the case though, and in order to continue to get content added to the game over time, you need additional income to pay for said content to be made, implimented, tested, etc.

The publishers and development teams are in the business (and thats exactly what it is, a business) to make money. Just because you feel you're entitled to a pre order bonus, or CE content doesn't make it true.

+1,000,000 and a bus full of logic.

[SheffSteel]

Lord Clocks wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

sensible stuff 

+1,000,000 and a bus full of logic.

Hear, hear.

As someone who hasn't played DA:J at all, it's amusing to see people's responses to getting / not getting free stuff, particuarly if they get less free stuff than they expected, or less than other people. Marketing has truly opened a can of worms, here.

The way I see it, I will get 100% of the game, plus the Stone Prisoner (let's say it's equivalent to 5% of the game) the Blood Dragon armour (say 0.25%) and whatever trinket they offered for uploading a character (0.1%).

So I've already got 105.65% of a game. Am I worried about another +/- 0.1%? Not enough to get my nerd-rage on for, no

[H8Cr1me]

Jumpin' Jesus on a pogo stick! Can't a guy vent in peace? Well, tickle me reformed. You people are HEROES of the web. Because of your posts, I have seen the error of my ways. I plan to contact EA and formally apologize for my wickedness and recommend that they deputize you fine folks for a job well done. Also, the pangs of guilt I now harbor for the gigs, upon gigs, of pirated software I have, has caused me to delete every last byte. It is as if I had a gun pointed at the world and you folks stuck a flower in the barrel. I now know how Darth Vader felt when he thought he was going to lose his baby boy:crying:. Alas....I am at peace.....

Modifié par H8Cr1me, 27 octobre 2009 - 06:07 .

[Varenus Luckmann]

H8Cr1me wrote...

Jumpin' Jesus on a pogo stick! Can't a guy vent in peace? Well, tickle me reformed. You people are HEROES of the web. Because of your posts, I have seen the error of my ways. I plan to contact EA and formally apologize for my wickedness and recommend that they deputize you fine folks for a job well done. Also, the pangs of guilt I now harbor for the gigs, upon gigs, of pirated software I have, has caused me to delete every last byte. It is as if I had a gun pointed at the world and you folks stuck a flower in the barrel. I now know how Darth Vader felt when he thought he was going to lose his baby boy:crying:. Alas....I am at peace.....

Or not.