173 réponses à ce sujet

[jbell2825]

The reason I ask, is if you believe the doom and gloom on most of this site Dragon age 2 is being drastically redone.  If DA2 is being redone, is it because the first failed to make the sales goal?  Is it believed that a change in design will bring in more sales?  Or did the original simply not live up to the expectations that the creators wanted?

I'm asking because it appears to me DA:O was a huge success.  I can understand making some changes in hopes of improving on the original, but based on the little info we have Bioware is going beyond enhancing the game and instead is drastically changing the game format.

This is fine of course, its Biowares game, and I am not going to pass judgement on it until I get to see more info.  But if the first game was a success, and had the feel you wanted to achieve, and you have a rabid fan base that wants more of the same, why change?

Do you feel the more traditional RPG is a dying game and not worth your time?  Is a simple numbers game and your research has shown that you can sell X more units with a more action feel?  Or did the original not come close to what you wanted?  Or, are we all just over reacting?

[Harid]

DA:O team saw what the ME:2 team did and wanted to emulate it, was the short answer that I recall hearing during early DA:2 development.

[upsettingshorts]

jbell2825 wrote...
Or, are we all just over reacting?

In most cases, this.  A couple of exceptions:

* The most consistently legitimate counter-arguments on DA:2's direction are focused around the voiced protagonist and/or the dialog wheel.  Which are the most radical changes.

* People also miss the origins of Origins. 

Other than that I'd say it's mostly panic sky-is-falling assumptions based on leaked console footage and reading into developer statements so that they confirm the skeptic's fears even if they don't necessarily mean anything of the sort.  There's also a smaller but equally passionate crowd of folks who are just genuinely upset with the post-Origins handling of the Warden and/or characters such as Morrigan, who are viewing any non-resolution of those characters as a disappointment, but I have a hard time justifying that as something unique to Bioware or indeed DA:2 and one that is open to narrative interpretation.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 04 novembre 2010 - 10:27 .

[Lukertin]

Didn't someone from Bioware state DA:O outsold ME2?

if this is in fact true I don't understand where this negativity comes from

Modifié par Lukertin, 04 novembre 2010 - 10:28 .

[upsettingshorts]

Lukertin wrote...

Didn't someone from Bioware state DA:O outsold ME2?

if this is in fact true I don't understand where this negativity comes from

Whose negativity?

[Anarya]

Maybe they liked the way ME2 implemented those things?

[AtreiyaN7]

From the numbers people keep throwing around, DA:O did pretty well. That being said, BW obviously wanted to move in a different direction with the voiced protagonist, etc. Personally, I think some people are overreacting, but if having a voiced protagonist and choosing from paraphrased dialogue options (and the zippier movement, etc.) affects them that deeply, it's their right to feel that way; it won't change anything though, so either they will eventually come to grips with the new direction, or they just won't get the game. DA2 is not going to be everyone's cup of tea.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 04 novembre 2010 - 10:34 .

[Gavinthelocust]

It isn't all about what kind of game it is, it is more about trying to make is more fun to play and doesn't control like crap. If they didn't change it at all or very little I probably wouldn't have pre ordered, sure I love DAO but I'd rather have a different experience than just the same game with a different setting and story. The format isn't even really changed that much, just quicker controls and a slightly different and in my opinion improved dialog system. The consoles are the only systems that are getting major revamps because as a console player I can safely say it played like garbage and being a rogue was hair-pullingly hard with all the shimmying and the improvements are looking like a godsend. I assure you as the release grows closer your negativity will decrease and if not there's always Witcher.

[upsettingshorts]

Anarya wrote...

Maybe they liked the way ME2 implemented those things?

Indeed, but people seem to be arguing that DA:2's changes are financially motivated when the fact that DA:O outsold ME2 suggests that they are in fact creatively motivated.

But it's easier to blame Electronic Arts and the bogeyman of money than admit that Bioware might simply disagree with them over what voice/dialog mechanics are better suited for the kinds of games Bioware wants to make.

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Personally, I think some people are overreacting, but if having a voiced protagonist and choosing from paraphrased dialogue options (and the zippier movement, etc.) affects them that deeply, it's their right to feel that way;

That's why I labeled those who are not in favor of voiceover and the dialog wheel as exceptions to those people overreacting.  This is something we know will be a factual change, something with which most people expressing an opinion have personal experience with both styles, and have intelligent and thoughtful opinions on each systems pros and cons.

The people overreacting are the ones concerned about console-ification of the PC version based on leaked video of console gameplay and reading into marketing terms without applying objective critical thinking, more or less.  Doesn't mean they may not eventually be proven correct, but right now their position strikes me as inherently unreasonable as it relies on facts not in evidence.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 04 novembre 2010 - 10:37 .

[Anarya]

I guess it all depends how you viewed Origins. I personally saw it as a flawed gem and therefore mostly welcome the changes. I suppose if you thought Origins was a flawless masterpiece I can understand the despair.

[the_one_54321]

Well how would you feel if you made yourself nice and comfortable in a familiar room full of all the kinds of things that you really like, and then someone comes in the middle of the night wrecks up the place and leaves a note that says "it's better this way."

[upsettingshorts]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Well how would you feel if you made yourself nice and comfortable in a familiar room full of all the kinds of things that you really like, and then someone comes in the middle of the night wrecks up the place and leaves a note that says "it's better this way."

Bad metaphor is bad.  It's not your room, it's Biowares, and you can leave whenever you want.  Still, the point is the "kinds of things" fall into two categories:

* Legitimate complaints about actual changes
* Unreasonable complaints about assumed changes

The former I can understand.  The latter is just annoying.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 04 novembre 2010 - 10:42 .

[the_one_54321]

I didn't say it was my room.

[Anarya]

Ah but that's just reinforcing my point. If you thought Origins was flawed you don't see the changes as "wrecking" anything. It'd be like someone coming into the room and changing that ugly wallpaper you never liked.

[the_one_54321]

What I'm getting at is that you should be able to see how some specific changes are really making some people angry. I'm not all that angry about the changes myself. So far.

[Anarya]

Er, but isn't that what I said?

[the_one_54321]

Maybe? I don't know, is it? I didn't notice if it was.

[Morroian]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Indeed, but people seem to be arguing that DA:2's changes are financially motivated when the fact that DA:O outsold ME2 suggests that they are in fact creatively motivated.

I won't be convinced by DAO outselling ME2 until I see actual numbers. I don't think anyone from BW has actually stated it either.

As for the creative motivation. They are probably now thinking seriously of this as a franchise, whereas before while they may have had plans for future instalments, it was mainly about DAO, hence the change to create a new more unique look that will presumably carry through future instalment if they happen. There were clear problems in the console versions that would undoubtedly have affected sales in the future therefore they had to address those issues. They would probably see a voiced protagonist as the future for bigger budget games hence that change. The combat changes also appear to fix issues people had with combat in DAO. The lack of iso view well that probably comes down to funding unfortunately.   

[upsettingshorts]

Morroian wrote...
The lack of iso view well that probably comes down to funding unfortunately.   

They're going to have some kind of 3rd person floating camera, how could it simply not being a BG-style isometric camera come down to money?

It strikes me as another creative decision, considering they say they're still tweaking it. 

[AtreiyaN7]

Yeah, I'd agree with that mostly. The impression that I get from all these threads is that even the people with completely valid concerns and beliefs about the voiced protagonist and/or dialogue wheel also tend to be the ones overreacting to any other purported change to the game - not all of them of course - but maybe all the posts are starting to look the same these days.

[jbell2825]

Personally I like the voiced protagonist and the wheel is a good idea in my mind (hated ME where I could never quit figure out how my character was going to come off), but why no iso view? Are we going to have a first person only look?



Im curious, why has Bioware not shown a more traditional video of combat? Calm every ones fears about the new system. Also, if DA did well, why not continue to cater to the RPG fans? The seems to be a rather large following, is it worth risking the alienation of that group of fans?

[upsettingshorts]

jbell2825 wrote...

but why no iso view? Are we going to have a first person only look?

No evidence this will be the case.  There will be a zoomed out third person view though it is going to be different than the traditional iso view.

jbell2825 wrote...Im curious, why has Bioware not shown a more traditional video of combat? Calm every ones fears about the new system. Also, if DA did well, why not continue to cater to the RPG fans? The seems to be a rather large following, is it worth risking the alienation of that group of fans?

Well, if you believe what Bioware says, it's because they aren't ready to do so yet because they're still working on it.

If you're CoS Sarah Jinstar, it's because they haven't figured out how best to hide how they've totally corrupted the game into Dragon Effect.

YMMV.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 04 novembre 2010 - 11:20 .

[Morroian]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Morroian wrote...
The lack of iso view well that probably comes down to funding unfortunately.   

They're going to have some kind of 3rd person floating camera, how could it simply not being a BG-style isometric camera come down to money?

Cause they needed to create new textures to enable an iso view I think Mikle Laidlaw mentioned it ages ago when talking about the new view.

[upsettingshorts]

Morroian wrote...
Cause they needed to create new textures to enable an iso view I think Mikle Laidlaw mentioned it ages ago when talking about the new view.

I'm trying to think of how that makes sense.  Roofs of buildings, maybe?

[Aumata]

Was fine on the PC for the most part, but complaints about the Console was were it was at. So bioware wants to place the same standard that was on PC to the Console. At the same time want to change the art to make it distinct to the Dragon Age universe, instead of having generic backgrounds and such.



The doom and gloom is because of change is all, no humans can ever accept change at some form.