173 réponses à ce sujet

[Zlarm]

I thought DA:O hit most of my expectations, although I was sorely dissapointed by the main storyline (I found it far too predictable). In fact I was sorely dissapointed by ME2's main storyline as well (for the same reason) so I hope it's not a recent trend with BioWare games (or RPGs in general, Obsidian newest games have had rather uninteresting main storylines as well). I must say I'm tickled by the idea of a framed narrative and since they've stated it won't be "a save the world from impending evil", I'm hoping the writers have cooked up something on the level of BG, Planescape or Mask of the Betrayer.



As for the other changes I don't really care too much about voice acting one way or the other, and the new art design is generally an improvement (although I'm not a fan of the new darkspawn). As long as they don't cut the inventory, weapon and armor stats, being able to equip armour on companions (basically "streamline" any of the RPG elements ala ME2) I shouldn't be too put off.



I do think changes between DA:O and DA2 needed to be made. And to be fair, so far they've pretty much addressed the main complaints the general public had with the first (bad graphics, no voice acting, combat).

[Ravenfeeder]

Yes DA:O sold very well, but you have to change to keep up, otherwise you stagnate and die. A shame many of the changes appear to be going in the wrong direction. DA:O was a flawed game, I agree. Unfortunately several of the 'fixes' are providing more flaws (dialog wheel, AoE attacks, possible iso view nerf) and not fixing the existing flaws (level design, inconsistent character advancement, injury system/kits).

[Maria Caliban]

jbell2825 wrote...

But if the first game was a success, and had the feel you wanted to achieve, and you have a rabid fan base that wants more of the same, why change?

Because somewhere in their tiny and black hearts, BioWare developers dare to hope they're artists instead of over-payed fry cooks whose only job is to serve up McDragonBurgers. Because while they want to make money, they'd also like to achieve more as developers than regurgitating their last game* and spewing it into the mouths of consumers who sit below them like baby birds tweeting "Give us more! Give us the same!"

If you weren't here, be aware that everything original in Dragon Age: Origins was met with boos and hisses from their loyal fans who wanted Buldar's Gate III: Shadows of Ferelden.

Origins? People hated them. List inventory instead of grid? People hated them. Graphics? Hated. Morrigan? Hated. Lore? Hated. Logo? Hated. Darkspawn? Hated. Templars? Hated. Archdemon? Great until we learned that it didn't do magic, couldn't talk, and we couldn't ride one. Mana instead of spells per day? Hated. No paladin, ranger, or monk? Hated.

The list goes on and on.

*See Madden 2-11.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 04 novembre 2010 - 11:53 .

[JrayM16]

Maria Caliban wrote...

jbell2825 wrote...

But if the first game was a success, and had the feel you wanted to achieve, and you have a rabid fan base that wants more of the same, why change?

Because somewhere in their tiny and black hearts, BioWare developers dare to hope they're artists instead of over-payed fry cooks whose only job is to serve up McDragonBurgers. Because while they want to make money, they'd also like to achieve more as developers than regurgitating their last game* and spewing it into the mouths of consumers who sit below them like baby birds tweeting "Give us more! Give us the same!"

If you weren't here, be aware that everything original in Dragon Age: Origins was met with boos and hisses from their loyal fans who wanted Buldar's Gate III: Shadows of Ferelden.

Origins? People hated them. List inventory instead of grid? People hated them. Graphics? Hated. Morrigan? Hated. Lore? Hated. Logo? Hated. Darkspawn? Hated. Templars? Hated. Archdemon? Great until we learned that it didn't do magic, couldn't talk, and we couldn't ride one. Mana instead of spells per day? Hated. No paladin, ranger, or monk? Hated.

The list goes on and on.

*See Madden 2-11.

While I thought your first point was overly cynical(the part I have bolded), I agree with pretty much everything else.

Post of the day.

[soteria]

Origins? People hated them. List inventory instead of grid? People hated them. Graphics? Hated. Morrigan? Hated. Lore? Hated. Logo? Hated. Darkspawn? Hated. Templars? Hated. Archdemon? Great until we learned that it didn't do magic, couldn't talk, and we couldn't ride one. Mana instead of spells per day? Hated. No paladin, ranger, or monk? Hated.

And you didn't even mention the violence trailer

[Nerevar-as]

soteria wrote...

Origins? People hated them. List inventory instead of grid? People hated them. Graphics? Hated. Morrigan? Hated. Lore? Hated. Logo? Hated. Darkspawn? Hated. Templars? Hated. Archdemon? Great until we learned that it didn't do magic, couldn't talk, and we couldn't ride one. Mana instead of spells per day? Hated. No paladin, ranger, or monk? Hated.

And you didn't even mention the violence trailer

Was it the one with MM music?

[casedawgz]

DA:O outsold ME2 initially, but I'm expecting the PS3 version to push ME2 over the edge. There was a whole additional user base for DA:O, while ME2's audience has been more limited up until this point.

[soteria]

Was it the one with MM music?

Yep.

Modifié par soteria, 05 novembre 2010 - 12:11 .

[Nerevar-as]

soteria wrote...

Was it the one with MM music?

Yep.

I wonder if the people who chose that ever saw Conan the Barbarian.

[Halfno]

Nerevar-as wrote...

soteria wrote...

Was it the one with MM music?

Yep.

I wonder if the people who chose that ever saw Conan the Barbarian.

They need to know what is best in life.

[Mike Laidlaw]

Maria Caliban wrote...
Because somewhere in their tiny and black hearts, BioWare developers dare to hope they're artists instead of over-payed fry cooks whose only job is to serve up McDragonBurgers. Because while they want to make money, they'd also like to achieve more as developers than regurgitating their last game* and spewing it into the mouths of consumers who sit below them like baby birds tweeting "Give us more! Give us the same!"

Hey now! We are not overpaid!

[UberDuber]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...
Because somewhere in their tiny and black hearts, BioWare developers dare to hope they're artists instead of over-payed fry cooks whose only job is to serve up McDragonBurgers. Because while they want to make money, they'd also like to achieve more as developers than regurgitating their last game* and spewing it into the mouths of consumers who sit below them like baby birds tweeting "Give us more! Give us the same!"

Hey now! We are not overpaid!

Really? What do you drive? Audi R8? Ferrari? Lamborghini?

[Dave of Canada]

UberDuber wrote...
Really? What do you drive? Audi R8? Ferrari? Lamborghini?

Every member of the DA2 team rides around on their own personal 50 Archdemonpower (there's no such thing as Horsepower in Thedas) Alistair GW2.

[Alexia89]

I didnt think i would like Origins that much going in, the setting and combat style put me off. It went on to be my favorite game ever and gave me the incentive to go back to play and love Kotor and baldur's gate 1-2 (and planescape torment on that note haha) First bioware game i played was Jade empire.

[TuringPoint]

I haven't heard anything that suggests something "drastic" about the change.

[Andaril78]

Laidlaw, I would want you to answer til OP´s well thought questions.
I would want to know the reasons, we who loved the BG saga and liked Origins because it´s heavy RPG feeling is of course a bit worried. If DA 2 seems a bit " streamlined" what happens with an eventual DA 3?
( Don´t worry, already pre-ordered )
But would want an full fledged answer.

Modifié par Andaril78, 05 novembre 2010 - 05:58 .

[Mike Laidlaw]

jbell2825 wrote...

The reason I ask, is if you believe the doom and gloom on most of this site Dragon age 2 is being drastically redone.  If DA2 is being redone, is it because the first failed to make the sales goal?  Is it believed that a change in design will bring in more sales?  Or did the original simply not live up to the expectations that the creators wanted?

None of those, really. It's more that we believe there were things that would make the game better, so we made some changes.

I'm asking because it appears to me DA:O was a huge success.  I can understand making some changes in hopes of improving on the original, but based on the little info we have Bioware is going beyond enhancing the game and instead is drastically changing the game format.

Heavy emphasis on "little info" there, as there's not a lot out there. If you could go into more detail on how you perceive the game has changed drastically from Origins, I could probably go into more detail.

This is fine of course, its Biowares game, and I am not going to pass judgement on it until I get to see more info.  But if the first game was a success, and had the feel you wanted to achieve, and you have a rabid fan base that wants more of the same, why change?

See Maria's post, further down. She pretty much nails it. We don't think that Origins was a perfect game. There were mechanics that were overly complicated, visuals that were dated and so on. So we took long hard looks at just about every part of the game and while some are almost identical, others are different, but the whole experience is not such a delta from Origins as to be a different beast entirely.

Do you feel the more traditional RPG is a dying game and not worth your time?  Is a simple numbers game and your research has shown that you can sell X more units with a more action feel?  Or did the original not come close to what you wanted?  Or, are we all just over reacting?

No, you're not overreacting. You're reacting. You see combat that looks fast paced and assume that it's like other fast-paced combat. Until more information is presented, that's what you have to go on. More is coming, but it's not out yet, so reactions are totally fair.

But I will put forward a core series of thoughts that have been in my head since we started DA II: "Combat in an RPG does not have to be slow. Special moves do not have to be small. Rogues and warriors do not have to be less visually satisfying than mages."

How do I know? Because years of seeing mages in fantasy settings has made sure we're all pretty damn comfortable with thinking about the weedly little guy in the pointy hat being an absolute bad-ass. And if HE can be awesome, I don't see any reason that my plate-mail wearing warrior shouldn't make me a little giddy, visually.

[AlanC9]

The OPs post has too many bad assumptions in it to really be worth Laidlaw's engaging with it. Bio's simply never thought of these changes the way the doom-and-gloomers have. Changes like a voiced protagonist, a new art look, and more responsive combat were demanded by the fanbase, or at any rate large parts of it. So you make the changes and disappoint one group, or you don't make them and disappoint another group . In the end you might as well do what you think is good, since someone's going to be ranting here no matter what you do.

[Epic777]

From all I have seen DA2 it reminds me more of KOTOR. I wonder is it more actiony RPG than action RPG. Personally I would never label KOTOR as a action RPG, despite the flashiness were a player could kick an enemy, block, parry etc. the player themselves didn't actually initiate any of those flashy moves. A player selected attack and that was the result.

[GameBoyish]

I think they were thinkin' "Always room for improvement"

[namedforthemoon]

Dave of Canada wrote...

UberDuber wrote...
Really? What do you drive? Audi R8? Ferrari? Lamborghini?

Every member of the DA2 team rides around on their own personal 50 Archdemonpower (there's no such thing as Horsepower in Thedas) Alistair GW2.

They're computer nerds. They ride around on Segways.

[Dsentinel]

Did someone say they were getting rid of the zoom out camera view, and that the camera would be more ME style?

[Lotion Soronarr]

IMHO, DA:O was a flawed gem. It still doesn't top BG2 for me, but it came close.
And that's what troubles me..it was so close...and it really didn't take much to top it. The flaws in DAO were in the mechanics (materials, looting, scaling) and atmopshere of the world(tied to the looting and materials, and massive hands and weapons...it ended up feeling a lot more high-fantasy and less believable because of it)

That said, some of the changes for DA2 I like very much. A lot of potential. ..
Other changes...I hate with the intensity of a thousand suns.

Which why I don't really think that it will outdo DAO. Call me skeptical. Will wait and see, but I figure it pays to be a pessimist. If it ends up being better than I though, I'll be pleasantly surprised, if not, then I will have the satisfaction of being right.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 05 novembre 2010 - 10:13 .

[Fortlowe]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...


How do I know? Because years of seeing mages in fantasy settings has made sure we're all pretty damn comfortable with thinking about the weedly little guy in the pointy hat being an absolute bad-ass. And if HE can be awesome, I don't see any reason that my plate-mail wearing warrior shouldn't make me a little giddy, visually.

My rogue is gonna be such a badass!