393 réponses à ce sujet

[Brockololly]

yukidama wrote...

Saibh wrote...
And it was because the style itself was generic that the details glazed past me. All the same muddy look. The details rendered in a more sophisticated and unique engine would look better and more striking, I think.

There are a lot of nice details but it's difficult to see through very stretched out/LQ textures much of times. I hope the textures are better...

Yeah, I think thats as much of a problem with the technology as anything. I won't argue that- I think the Eclipse engine and the tech in general did a mediocre job of creating the world and look that you can see in the Origins concept art:

Of all the characters, I think Morrigan was one of the few that in game, actually maintained the same feel from her concept art. I'm just hoping they can make the locales more interesting with the new lighting system as the concept art for Origins' locations is so awesome yet in the game they look so boring.

Like this is the Korcari Wilds:


This is supposed to be Redcliffe:


And this the mountain pass to Haven and the Urn:


So I don't think the art style of Origins is so much at fault as it is the tech not pulling through- not allowing for the sense of scale or the dynamic lighting you see in the concept art.

tmp7704 wrote...

Anarya wrote...

There was
not one visual element in it that I could point to as something I
haven't seen before in other fantasy games or movies. So that to me is
generic.

While this is pretty true, the "new" visuals of DA2
don't appear to dodge this complaint, either. So it's a change but it
fails to bring improvement (other than increased fidelity on consoles
which is technical rather than matter of design)

Right- At best they're a sidestep. Instead of Lord of the RIngs, DA2 is borrowing from Conan and He-Man.

Modifié par Brockololly, 05 novembre 2010 - 12:40 .

[Anarya]

tmp7704 wrote...

Anarya wrote...

and the architecture, which I think already looks much less generic than in Origins and seems promising on that front.

Actually the architecture was so far source of a genuine "lol" moment i had with DA2. Because for all the talk how they want to move from "looking like Lord of the Rings", we get an "iconic new location" and the first thing you're going to see when you approach it?

[snip]

impressive, origina-

[snip]

oh, wait.

I pretty much had the same reaction and I'd count that as an exception to what I was saying. I think some of the other art we've seen of Kirkwall does better on the "uniqueness" front.

[tmp7704]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Because Tolkein invented the Pillars of Hercules!

No, but being able to trace the inspiration for the initial concept even farther back doesn't make it any less generic, does it?

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

yukidama wrote...

Pseudocognition wrote...

@Yuki: I was actually shocked when I looked up nice crisp images of everything online. There really is some unique stuff in the Origins style but hot damn is it hard to see, and I played on a HD screen and everything.

Heh, having played on both PS3 and PC it is a big switch. It shouldn't be, though. It should look good no matter where you play it, IMO (not that highest settings on the PC should look the same as the lower ones, but yeah). It looked pretty bad until I got it for the PC and on the highest settings. But understandably, there are gonna be things where the texture isn't going to be a priority versus face and armor textures. But there were some instances where they were very noticably stretched out and it was kind of jarring.

Oh yeah, a game on a high end PC, should look the same on a console with dated tech and 512 megs of ram as a limitation. Oh wait..

[Maria Caliban]

Saibh wrote...

You know, I also remember that the game I immediately played after DAO was AC2. And let me tell you, I couldn't get over how beautiful that game was, especially in comparison. How impacting the visuals were--and when I looked at DAO again it just looked ugly to me. Uninteresting and bland. I adored the game, but looking at it sure was boring.

When you take from a distinctive culture, you get a distinctive look. When you take a bunch of fantasy tropes and mix them together, you rarely get a distinctive look.

[Anarya]

@Brock: even those concept art pieces look more generic to me than the DA2 concept art.

[upsettingshorts]

tmp7704 wrote...
No, but being able to trace the inspiration for the initial concept even farther back doesn't make it any less generic, does it?

Nihil novi sub sole.

It's just yet another take on the idea of taking real world geography to extremes.

[Ortaya Alevli]

Nerevar-as wrote...

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

Can't say much about new elves and dwarves. Qunari look a tad more evil, yeah. That doesn't mean they'll lose their sophisticated traits and social structure and turn into brutes, though. I understand the concern, but we'll have to wait and see.

It´ll probably mean they are big antagonists. Seems the Evil/Antagonist (to include Loghain) is Ugly from Origins hasn´t changed with the new direction. Pity.

I know. That's exactly what was just crossing my mind when I posted it. I got into the same debate a while back; I didn't wanna accept it then and I don't wanna accept it now, either, but that doesn't change it. The qunari have been shamelessly "antagonistificated".

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...
No, but being able to trace the inspiration for the initial concept even farther back doesn't make it any less generic, does it?

Nihil novi sub sole.

It's just yet another take on the idea of taking real world geography to extremes.

This.

We live in a closed system, so you've gotta work with what you have. Those two images convey a completely different mood and that makes one unique from the other.

[Nerevar-as]

Brockololly wrote...

Right- At best they're a sidestep. Instead of Lord of the RIngs, DA2 is borrowing from Conan and He-Man.

So the Free Marches are based on spanish landscapes then?

[mellifera]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

yukidama wrote...

Pseudocognition wrote...

@Yuki: I was actually shocked when I looked up nice crisp images of everything online. There really is some unique stuff in the Origins style but hot damn is it hard to see, and I played on a HD screen and everything.

Heh, having played on both PS3 and PC it is a big switch. It shouldn't be, though. It should look good no matter where you play it, IMO (not that highest settings on the PC should look the same as the lower ones, but yeah). It looked pretty bad until I got it for the PC and on the highest settings. But understandably, there are gonna be things where the texture isn't going to be a priority versus face and armor textures. But there were some instances where they were very noticably stretched out and it was kind of jarring.

Oh yeah, a game on a high end PC, should look the same on a console with dated tech and 512 megs of ram as a limitation. Oh wait..

Lol, I didn't mean it like that. I meant that it shouldn't look like two different games when you go from console to even the medium settings on PC. Which is what I did, until I got a better computer.

And even on the highest settings, there were some pretty crap stretched out textures that don't wrap around objects properly. Which, as I said, is understandable when you're focusing more on faces than side building #2423423434.

Modifié par yukidama, 05 novembre 2010 - 12:47 .

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

yukidama wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

yukidama wrote...

Pseudocognition wrote...

@Yuki: I was actually shocked when I looked up nice crisp images of everything online. There really is some unique stuff in the Origins style but hot damn is it hard to see, and I played on a HD screen and everything.

Heh, having played on both PS3 and PC it is a big switch. It shouldn't be, though. It should look good no matter where you play it, IMO (not that highest settings on the PC should look the same as the lower ones, but yeah). It looked pretty bad until I got it for the PC and on the highest settings. But understandably, there are gonna be things where the texture isn't going to be a priority versus face and armor textures. But there were some instances where they were very noticably stretched out and it was kind of jarring.

Oh yeah, a game on a high end PC, should look the same on a console with dated tech and 512 megs of ram as a limitation. Oh wait..

Lol, I didn't mean it like that. I meant that it shouldn't look like two different games when you go from console to even the medium settings on PC. Which is what I did, until I got a better computer.

They don't really have a choice if they want to have any sort of respectable framerates on the console versions.

[Maria Caliban]

Dragon Age was a PC exclusive for five years, and then they decided to make it multi-platform. Yes, I expect the console version will look better this time.

[Ympulse]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Ympulse wrote...

there is not one visual element in DA2 that I haven't seen before in JRPGs or Movies in that genre.

Does that mean the 'new' look is a generic JRPG? Don't look to far into what you're telling yourself. It's a simple stylization shift.

Maybe it's just me but I don't see the new style being similar to JRPGs. At all.

If you get the time, have a look at a bunch of the cutscenes from the FF series. Specifically FF 8-10-and 13. You'll find almost 1-for-1 analogues between those and the promo cinematics. The armors, non-human character design, and weapons also take heavily from the FF series, although more from the anime-inspired RPGs.

Edit- also, consoles will never have the same graphic capabilities of PCs. I don't expect the console versions of the games to look any better than FF7 when it comes to graphics.

Modifié par Ympulse, 05 novembre 2010 - 12:54 .

[Saibh]

Ympulse wrote...

If you get the time, have a look at a bunch of the cutscenes from the FF series. Specifically FF 8-10-and 13. You'll find almost 1-for-1 analogues between those and the promo cinematics. The armors, non-human character design, and weapons also take heavily from the FF series, although more from the anime-inspired RPGs.

Edit- also, consoles will never have the same graphic capabilities of PCs. I don't expect the console versions of the games to look any better than FF7 when it comes to graphics.

See, I just can't take you seriously after that last comment.

(Spoiler!

Aerith dies, sorry, folks.)



Also, I'd really like to see where you draw the comparisons specifically towards DA2 and FF. Really, is it the Destiny trailer? Because the Sacred Ashes trailer was pretty similar. You know, spiky armor or big swords are not specifically Final Fantasy things that they made popular or invented. They might be characteristic, however (although I can't recall too much armor with spikes).

Modifié par Saibh, 05 novembre 2010 - 01:01 .

[AtreiyaN7]

Many people seem to feel that Tolkien-esque dwarves and/or elves are some sort of requirement and that any divergence from their established physical traits is a no-no. As much as I love the LotR series and movies, I don't mind seeing them try something different from the norm with the new art direction. I didn't play DA:O because the darkspawn or the humans really wowed me with their looks, so I'm not particularly attached to what others feel should be the "proper" or "established" look for each race.

[JrayM16]

Saibh wrote...

Ympulse wrote...

If you get the time, have a look at a bunch of the cutscenes from the FF series. Specifically FF 8-10-and 13. You'll find almost 1-for-1 analogues between those and the promo cinematics. The armors, non-human character design, and weapons also take heavily from the FF series, although more from the anime-inspired RPGs.

Edit- also, consoles will never have the same graphic capabilities of PCs. I don't expect the console versions of the games to look any better than FF7 when it comes to graphics.

See, I just can't take you seriously after that last comment.

(Spoiler!

Aerith dies, sorry, folks.)

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Also, I'd really like to see where you draw the comparisons specifically towards DA2 and FF. Really, is it the Destiny trailer? Because the Sacred Ashes trailer was pretty similar. You know, spiky armor or big swords are not specifically Final Fantasy things that they made popular or invented. They might be characteristic, however (although I can't recall too much armor with spikes).

JRPGs are by and large the antithesis of what many people on this forum want from an RPG.  Drawing comaparisons to said antithesis valdates their preconceived conclusions. 

[SirOccam]

Darkhour wrote...

Darkspawn - Are these supposed to be human hurlocks in the middle of a transition into full darkspawnhood?  You know, maybe hurlock come from humans, genlocks from dwarves, ogres from Qunari, shreikers from elves or something????

Seriously, they look like generic 80's fodder you'd expect to see He Man kicking around.  Skeletor, come pick your goons up.  I half expect to see fist fights with "BAM", "CRACK" and "BONK" appear on the screen when you land a hit.  You went from frightening terrors to wiley meth heads without lips.  WTF??

1.  Does anyone think these things are an improvement? Why? And please tell us what you are smoking.

I'm not a huge fan of the new darkspawn look, myself. I can get used to the white skin and the noses and all that, but all the matching armor just looks weird. They look way too uniform, and I was under the impression that they're not supposed to be all that organized...especially not enough to have an outfit coordination committee.

But I will say, as others have, they look much better in-game. I don't mean that they have been wildly changed in appearance since those screenshots were taken, but when you have other things on your mind--things like survival and tactics--you're not going to be staring at every pixel of them. I had no problem accepting them as Darkspawn while I was playing the demo.

It is also worth mentioning that they are going to be playing a much smaller role compared to Origins, so we'll not be seeing them as often, presumably.

Dwarves = hobbits?  They are no longer bulky and look like human midgets.  Why the hell would you do this, Bioware?  A midget human is not a dwarf.

2.  Do you prefer the midget look?

How many Dwarves have you seen so far? One. One, who is a unique NPC, and therefore has a unique appearance, and therefore should not be exactly what all Dwarves look like. And besides, he is plenty bulky. To use your own words...what are you smoking? Seriously, are you just going off the concept art?

They don't look like humans to me at all (I mean obviously they have some things in common, but it's not like you're going to go "oh that human's really short." They're going to be clearly Dwarven.)

And now the Qunari are all demon kin. Yeah, that's what they are.  And it's not just the horns (even though they are way to big... Turians will probably have 4 arms in ME3).  They look like they should all be in loincloth carrying clubs, stratching their butts, picking their nose, eating their own boogers and saying things like "Duuurrrr, me smash you!" Their low brow and slouched posture looks uncultured and uncivilized... the opposite of how they were established in DAO.  "some qunari cut their horns off", "some are born without horns"... Riiiight, and some humans are born with 5 eyes and some with 2.  Sten was just a tall human afterall?

3. What do you think of this new look?

Sten DID look like a tall human. That was not a good thing.

It's funny that you are bashing Dwarves for looking too human and Qunari for not looking human enough.

I don't think they look bad (like the ridiculous hurlocks). It's just that the lack of consistency is alarming.

Only the elves were left alone, for the most part. Ears that stick out awat fromn the head (like FFXI elvan) aren't all that bad.

I would suggest holding off until you actually see some rendered in-game. Concept art isn't all that necessarily representative of the final product (almost by definition). This goes for all the races.

[tmp7704]

Anarya wrote...

I pretty much had the same reaction and I'd count that as an exception to what I was saying. I think some of the other art we've seen of Kirkwall does better on the "uniqueness" front.

Well, like you said we didn't get to see much so far. But i can't really say what we did get to see caused me to go "whoa, i've never seen corridor / plaza / barren landscape like that before". Granted, part of it is limitation that comes with the subject since there's only so many ways to arrange streets and buildings etc, but some of the bits and the colour schemes they picked feels almost like they're painting themselves into a corner here -- because if qunari architecture is supposed to be based on mayan/inca designs, then it risks winding up feeling very similar to Kirkwall if ever shown, unless they decide to shake things up pretty radically in future installments (again)

Modifié par tmp7704, 05 novembre 2010 - 01:18 .

[Tellervo]

The new Darkspawn look like ICP fans. As much as I love the idea of kicking Juggalos around, not what I wanna play a fantasy game for.



The new Qunari look like Coldstone from Gargoyles. I'm going to hear Worf's voice every time one opens its mouth, no matter what.



Hawke *sashays* in the gameplay that's been leaked.



GOOD GOD THE BOOBS ARE HUGE. I don't know if that's good or bad.



Elves are looking more like short pink-skinned Navi with the parts of the face that have been widened. Navi are supposed to look "elven", but the resemblance in the new concept art was startling.



In short: I can't take anything I've seen so far seriously. DA:O may have looked dated, but it looked mature, and that's far more important to me than fresh and new. You can pull off art style changes and it work, other game series have done it, but everything I've seen so far just feels more juvenile.

[soteria]

Edit- also, consoles will never have the same graphic capabilities of PCs. I don't expect the console versions of the games to look any better than FF7 when it comes to graphics.

I agree with Saibh. This comment really calls into question the validity of the rest of your comparisons to FF games.

Edit:  This is totally unrelated to that comment, but I like the new Qunari look from the screenshots I've seen.  They actually look like a different race rather than large and vaguely Pacific Micronesian.

Modifié par soteria, 05 novembre 2010 - 01:31 .

[Ischkwezrn]

So what is the artistic difference between DA:O and DA2?



I haven't really noticed it so far.

[Harid]

Edit- also, consoles will never have the same graphic capabilities of PCs. I don't expect the console versions of the games to look any better than FF7 when it comes to graphics.

Wat, God of War 3 and Uncharted 2 look better than many computer games, even ones released today  lol

[AtreiyaN7]

The FFVII comment just makes me want to facepalm. Well, why resist the urge...

*facepalm*

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 05 novembre 2010 - 01:32 .

[Ympulse]

Saibh wrote...
Also, I'd really like to see where you draw the comparisons specifically towards DA2 and FF. Really, is it the Destiny trailer? Because the Sacred Ashes trailer was pretty similar. You know, spiky armor or big swords are not specifically Final Fantasy things that they made popular or invented. They might be characteristic, however (although I can't recall too much armor with spikes).

End of the work day, it was coming off the top of my head. I picked the most visible JRPG in order to draw an easily seen comparisin, as opposed to something more obscure.