132 réponses à ce sujet

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

Fates end wrote...

Eh...if they really do reduce your ME2 squad to cameos simply because some of them could die...then I don't know if I'll even play the third game. What would be the point? To gather an new squad because for some mysterious reason my old one couldn't be there? Yeah...no.

I hope they don't do that, though. It seems silly, negating all of ME2, basically. Hopefully Bioware will find a way to keep the characters important in ME3.

It happens

Happened to my favorite character and LI.

I expect the same.... but then again, with my luck, I can see them bringing everyone back BUT Ashley (or Kaiden lol).

[AClockworkMelon]

Collider wrote...

I think this is pretty obvious.
Most people had most if not all of their squad survive.
It therefore would not be a waste of time.

It seems more of a waste of time to not include them.

The problem is that different players managed to save different characters. Thus in order to make this approach work BW would have to make ALL the ME2 characters recruitable in ME3, which would 1.) Require a huge, huge amount of work and 2.) Would punish with lost content on those who didn't save every party member in ME2 in a way that I doubt BW would (even if it's realistic) and 3.) Would force BW to create an entirely new cast of characters anyway to replace all those who died in the case of players who didn't save more than a couple of their teammates - meaning BW would have to create two complete casts of fully integrated party members.

Most people saved Wrex and yet Wrex isn't a party member in ME3.
Most people chose Kaidan over Ashley and yet Kaidan isn't a party member in ME3.
(I'm not actually sure about how many people saved Wrex or about which squadmate was saved at Virmire- I'm just making examples.)

Modifié par AClockworkMelon, 05 novembre 2010 - 02:26 .

[AntiChri5]

Why does everyone seem to think that the two or three hours of voice acting required for each squadmate is a significant investment?

Do you have any idea how much a AAA game like ME2 costs to make?

Do you have any idea how much audio for the game isn't even used?

Can you imagine how much the Mass Effect franchise has made BioWare/EA?

Do you have any idea how deep EA's pockets are?

A few squaddies is not a colossal investment, and would hardly "waste" much resources.

Especially as most people will experience it.

[Saibh]

Collider wrote...

I think this is pretty obvious.
Most people had most if not all of their squad survive.
It therefore would not be a waste of time.

It seems more of a waste of time to not include them.

But they would have to account for the people who do not. It's about resources, not majority. Unfortunately...

[PROKNIFER69]

If this happens then i will be really pissed, ME2 was about building a team and having to build a new team for no reason apart from "they can die" would make ME3 feel cheep to me. and i dont really like liara or ash/kaiden so i really wouldent be happy with this.

[AntiChri5]

Most people saved Wrex and yet Wrex isn't a party member in ME3.

Most people chose Kaidan over Ashley and yet Kaidan isn't a party member in ME3.

(I'm not actually sure about how many people saved Wrex or about which squadmate was saved at Virmire- I'm just making examples.)

Did you just make stuff up, present it as fact then admit to doing so?

[AClockworkMelon]

AntiChri5 wrote...

Why does everyone seem to think that the two or three hours of voice acting required for each squadmate is a significant investment?

You seem to think I'm referring only to voice acting. 

And if EA's pockets are so deep that they can afford virtually anything then I wonder why we didn't have horses in DA. The fact is that when you're constructing a game there is only so much content that you can include and only so much time you can spend.

[AClockworkMelon]

AntiChri5 wrote...

Most people saved Wrex and yet Wrex isn't a party member in ME3.
Most people chose Kaidan over Ashley and yet Kaidan isn't a party member in ME3.
(I'm not actually sure about how many people saved Wrex or about which squadmate was saved at Virmire- I'm just making examples.)

Did you just make stuff up, present it as fact then admit to doing so?

I didn't present it as fact. I was presenting hypotheticals. My statement in parentheses was a disclaimer that what I'd said was hypothetical and not fact. I haven't polled every person to ever play ME to ask if they saved Wrex. Just like the person I responded to hasn't polled every person to ever play ME to ask if they brought everyone through the suicide mission alive.

 Disingenuous debating isn't going to help either side. 

Modifié par AClockworkMelon, 05 novembre 2010 - 02:31 .

[Pacifien]

For an ME2 character not to make it to ME3, the player must import a save where that character died. This means it is the player's choice to deny themselves that character and whatever they may bring to ME3's story because they wanted to play that particular import. If they wanted the full experience, they could simply import a save where everyone lived. Or play a default game where it is assumed everyone lived, assuming BioWare takes that route.

Making everyone a cameo is simply the easy route. It is not the only route. Might make development a bit of a challenge, but I don't think that should stop them. Game development challenges are good. Just because you can't fathom how it can be done doesn't mean it can't be done.

Modifié par Pacifien, 05 novembre 2010 - 02:34 .

[AClockworkMelon]

PROKNIFER69 wrote...

If this happens then i will be really pissed, ME2 was about building a team and having to build a new team for no reason apart from "they can die" would make ME3 feel cheep to me.

Again, this can be applied to ME1. In that game you built a team and in ME2 you built a new one. Did that make your ME1 experience any cheaper? If so, I'm sorry, but I didn't feel that way. I still love ME1 even despite not being able to use Liara, Kaidan, Wrex, etc. And I'll still love ME2 if it turns out I can't use Samara, Jack, Mordin, etc. 

[AClockworkMelon]

Pacifien wrote...

For an ME2 character not to make it to ME3, the player must import a save where that character died. This means it is the player's choice to deny themselves that character and whatever they may bring to ME3's story because they wanted to play that particular import.

Again, I don't think that's a punishment that BW will choose to allow the players to inflict on themselves. And what happens if two party members and Shepard were the only two to survive?

Making everyone a cameo is simply the easy route. It is not the only route.

It's the route they took with Wrex, Kaidan and Ashley in ME2. Why didn't they take the other route? Why weren't those characters party members in ME2 if not because they could have died in ME1? Even more, why are they more likely to appear in ME3 than they were to appear in ME2? If I had, before the release of ME2 said that  those characters wouldn't be party members in ME2 would you have said to me then what you're saying now?

Just because you can't fathom how it can be done doesn't mean it can't be done.

I'm capable of fathoming it. It just isn't very realistic to think that that's what will happen.

Modifié par AClockworkMelon, 05 novembre 2010 - 02:41 .

[Googlesaurus]

AClockworkMelon wrote...

Yes, as cameos, for reasons I and others have already adequately explained.

No one has made anything close to a compelling case for why Ashley/Kaidan will show up as cameos. In fact, the only reliable evidence in this thread suggests that they will play "important" roles. A deliberately vague phrase that covers a lot of scenarios. 

AClockworkMelon wrote...

You're acting as if it's my idea. If I'm correct, and I think it only logical that I am in this case, it's Bioware's idea. I, for one, would like to see Tali as a party member in ME3 and was upset when I first thought of the implications of the suicide mission but I know that Bioware will likely have her as a cameo that I can use to reaffirm my PC's romance with and if it's not to my satisfaction there'll be another party full of potential LIs for me to choose from. 

It's logical if your goal is to appeal to as many new consumers as possible and to create a game that has no meaningful connection to continuity. It is also logical to satisfy the fans who have purchased the entire trilogy and buy the premise that decisions carry over from game to game, as this is a base that will consistently churn out money. This is the fan base that also buys the books, comic books, and other paraphernalia associated with the universe. 

Modifié par Googlesaurus, 05 novembre 2010 - 02:46 .

[InHarmsWay]

Here's why I believe they will be squadmates in ME3:



ME2:

"Shepard, recruit the best of the best for your squad! They are the best in their fields. Completely unrivaled in skill. With them you will be unstoppable."



ME3:

"Shepard, recruit a whole new squad of soldiers."



It would be the ultimate slap in the face to constantly state in ME2 that you are recruiting the best soldiers and scientists for your team and then in ME3 lose them all and have to recruit an entirely new team of soldiers. It makes your choices for the suicide mission pointless if they only return as cameos.

[AntiChri5]

You seem to think I'm referring only to voice acting. 



And if EA's pockets are so deep that they can afford virtually anything then I wonder why we didn't have horses in DA. The fact is that when you're constructing a game there is only so much content that you can include and only so much time you can spend.

You do realise there are a lot of costs associated with crearing new characters, right? And what costs are associated with bringing back old squaddies apart from VO?

And there is a massive difference between creating a new, non essential, creature in a game and bringing back an old character.

I didn't present it as fact. I was presenting hypotheticals. My statement in parentheses was a disclaimer that what I'd said was hypothetical and not fact. I haven't polled every person to ever play ME to ask if they saved Wrex. Just like the person I responded to hasn't polled every person to ever play ME to ask if they brought everyone through the suicide mission alive.

You did present it as fact. That you immediately admitted it wasn't doesn't change that. To state a hypothetical you should write:

"What if most people saved Wrex"

To state a fact you write:

"Most people saved Wrex."

Besides which, i remember reading most people killed Wrex (as well as played Renegade).

And it is very very easy to get everyone through the suicide mission.

[Collider]

Saibh wrote...
But they would have to account for the people who do not. It's about resources, not majority. Unfortunately...

Smart accolation of resources has everything to do with the majority.

[ArcanistLibram]

They'll be back. So will Liara, Kaidan/Ashley and Wrex. If they're not back, then Bioware has absolutely no pride in their work and I refuse to believe that.

[AClockworkMelon]

Googlesaurus wrote...

AClockworkMelon wrote...

Yes, as cameos, for reasons I and others have already adequately explained.

No one has made anything close to a compelling case for why Ashley/Kaidan will show up as cameos.

I can only assume then that you're ignoring everything that's been said in the thread. 

It's logical if your goal is to appeal to as many new consumers as possible and to create a game that has no meaningful connection to continuity. It is also logical to satisfy the fans who have purchased the entire trilogy and buy the premise that decisions carry over from game to game, as this is a base that will consistently churn out money.

The game will have continuity and our decisions will carry over. If Jack dies in ME2 I won't see her in ME3. If she survives I'll likely see her. Just like I saw Kaidan in ME2. 

That's it? You were upset because you thought you would lose your love interest?

I think you're reading too much into what I said. I was hoping to have Tali as a party member in ME3 and I was upset when I logically concluded that I wouldn't. I didn't shed any tears and I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. I'm still going to buy and likely enjoy ME3. I /hope/ that Tali is a party member in ME3 because that'd be seriously awesome. 

[mander83]

I think it is safe to say that most people have a save where everyone, or at least almost everyone, survived the suicide mission. Its hard not to get that outcome. Meaning that very few people would actually be missing out on anything.



Not bringing back any ME/ME2 squadmates would disappoint a lot of people. To make sure that a few didn't miss content? It seems silly to me, I guess.



I figure that some of the old squadmates will be back, some will have other appearances, and some might be gone. They'll probably have some new ones as well. I just can't see them not bringing back any of the old squadmates. Especially when they set it up so that Kaidan/Ashley for sure survived to ME3. Why waste it on a brief cameo?

[AClockworkMelon]

AntiChri5 wrote...

You did present it as fact. That you immediately admitted it wasn't doesn't change that. To state a hypothetical you should write:
"What if most people saved Wrex"
To state a fact you write:
"Most people saved Wrex."

I'm not going to respond to you any further because you're being intentionally disingenuous and I don't have much patience for that.

Modifié par AClockworkMelon, 05 novembre 2010 - 02:50 .

[Evelinessa]

AClockworkMelon wrote...

Again, this can be applied to ME1. In that game you built a team and in ME2 you built a new one. Did that make your ME1 experience any cheaper? If so, I'm sorry, but I didn't feel that way. I still love ME1 even despite not being able to use Liara, Kaidan, Wrex, etc. And I'll still love ME2 if it turns out I can't use Samara, Jack, Mordin, etc. 

There is a difference. In ME1 you just got the squadmates as you went along and the main focus was the story. In ME2 the whole game was about recruiting a team and solving their problems. The whole focus was on the characters with basically no focus on the story. The plot didn't progress very much in ME2. If in ME3 we lose all our squad to cameos and have to build a new team yet again then ME2 would be a waste of time. We shouldn't be getting all new characters for the last act in a trilogy.

Modifié par Evelinessa, 05 novembre 2010 - 02:54 .

[AClockworkMelon]

Evelinessa wrote...

In ME2 the whole game was about recruiting a team and solving their problems. The whole focus was on the characters with basically no focus on the story.

I agree that ME2 was much more character-driven than ME1. It doesn't have any relation to my points, however.

If in ME3 we lose all our squad to cameos and have to build a new team yet again then ME2 would be a waste of time.

I disagree. Was Dr Strangelove; or, How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love The Bomb a waste of time because the world is destroyed at the end? All those characters we came to know have died. But their experience remains meaningful to us. 

In my story was Ashley's experience wasted because she died? Was Kaidan's experience wasted because he had a cameo role? Again, I don't think so.

[AntiChri5]

I heard there was a seperate team working on Shepards eye animations.

They then give you the option to wear a helmet which covers your face.

An option presented to the player which renders them unable to experience something Bioware devoted resources to.

Only the Soldier (one of six classes) can use the Revenant.

Even then, the Soldier is presented with two other options which prevent them from using the Revenant.

BioWare devoted resources to something a small amount of players would have.

[Evelinessa]

I would also like to add that it's harder to kill most of your squadmates then it is to save them all. And BioWare wouldn't have to come up with a new character for every one that died. All they need is 4-6 new characters and people would be set for a new squad.

[Pacifien]

AClockworkMelon wrote...

Pacifien wrote...
Just because you can't fathom how it can be done doesn't mean it can't be done.

I'm capable of fathoming it. It just isn't very realistic to think that that's what will happen.

So the purpose of this thread is so you can go on record that you believe none of the ME2 party will appear as anything more than cameos just so you can say "I told you so" to anyone who disagrees with you?

You don't know anything. Nobody does. You can't break the bad news that the ME2 squadmates are only going to be cameos in ME3 because you can't possibly know that. This comment: "you're acting as if it's my idea. If I'm correct, and I think it only logical that I am in this case, it's Bioware's idea" is completely false. You assume that BioWare believes as you do. The only logical conclusion anyone can make is that BioWare is going to do what they want, not what you think is logical.

Modifié par Pacifien, 05 novembre 2010 - 03:03 .