132 réponses à ce sujet

[curly haired boy]

oh god not this thread again

it seems to pop up on a regular basis

people seem to assume that just because content may not be seen, that it shouldn't be included.

bioware made an achievement for getting everyone out alive. that incentive, plus the general transparency of the suicide mission, virtually assures them that EVERYONE has a save where all squadmates survived.

THAT is the baseline. players who lost nearly everyone are a distinct minority.

seen from that perspective, there's no reason why bioware SHOULDN'T bring everyone back for ME3.

[Aeowyn]

CalJones wrote...

Like I said in the Garrus thread, the writers seem to have deliberately given many squadmates no reason to return to their old lives.
Garrus - flunked the Spectre training (and C-Sec if he went back to it) then had his entire merc team killed on Omega. Aside from the dying mother (who his sister is tending to), he has no reason to leave Shepard.
.

Sorry for the OT, but when do you hear about that?

Modifié par Aeowyn, 05 novembre 2010 - 07:47 .

[vkt62]

I wouldn't mind if you could keep your squad from the end of ME2 and ashley/kaiden and if ME3 was all about doing missions and nothing to do with recruitment. Might make it more involved and less side quests.

[AdmiralCheez]

Aeowyn wrote...

CalJones wrote...

Like I said in the Garrus thread, the writers seem to have deliberately given many squadmates no reason to return to their old lives.
Garrus - flunked the Spectre training (and C-Sec if he went back to it) then had his entire merc team killed on Omega. Aside from the dying mother (who his sister is tending to), he has no reason to leave Shepard.
.

Sorry for the OT, but when do you hear about that?

Shadow Broker DLC.

[ForgottenWarrior]

At least Liara is still alive. It's better then nothing.

Modifié par ForgottenWarrior, 05 novembre 2010 - 08:34 .

[AClockworkMelon]

curly haired boy wrote...

people seem to assume that just because content may not be seen, that it shouldn't be included.

Not shouldn't, but wouldn't. 

Frankly I believe everyone's belief that the characters will return as party members is wishful thinking. "No, it's not true! That's impossible!" 

Of course the characters will return in ME3. They just won't be party members. 

Modifié par AClockworkMelon, 05 novembre 2010 - 04:10 .

[Unit-Alpha]

Solgineer wrote...

Googlesaurus wrote...

So that leaves Liara, Kaidan/Ashley, Joker. Pretty scanty pickings for the faithful Bioware masses.

Liara is already dedicated to being the Shadow Broker, sorry.

But it may as well come down to that, but don't readily think that of Bioware as they may throw a few of the previous squadmates in anyway. I'd hate to see Tali and Garrus make it into the first and second but not be around for the climatic finish of the trilogy when they were there from the start.

Wrong. They've never said she will have to be the SB in ME3. Don't make stupid assumptions. They aren't going to drop the only character with a 100% survival rate.

[Googlesaurus]

davidshooter wrote...

Googlesaurus wrote...

davidshooter wrote...

This is false. When one considers that a return of a potentially dead squadmate is going to cost "in addition to" whatever the new placeholder character is to those who have the original character dead. Bioware is not going to create and voice a dozen characters in addition to those that will be needed if most of your ME2 squad is dead.

So "new character + old character" > "new character". How does that disprove my point? 

Most of the ME2 characters are not relevant enough to warrant more than a cameo anyway. But they could contribute something important to the overall story beyond letting us know they exist. 

Creating a new character for some "in addiion to" recreating an old charcter for others is not, and never will be, cheaper than a new character for everybody.  I can't think of any recent game that has invested in a character - as major as a ME2 squadmate - that would only appear in some games.  Every ME2 squadmate can be dead - each one that is created and voiced for ME3 is a redundancy - I just don't see this getting past the EA financing dept.

Creating new characters takes more time and effort than reintroducing old characters on a 1-1 basis (which was my entire point). You're just arguing simple mathematics. They won't bring back all the old characters simply because they don't want to push away new players who have no experience with the series. Bioware wanted ME2 to be a stand-alone game and they'll do it with ME3, which means imports and all import consequences must be unnecessary in order to win. There are enough plot points so that they can either bring them back as cameos, bring them back as squadmates, or get rid of them completely with some explanation. However, it would be a kick in the teeth for players who bothered to save Wrex and all their ME2 squadmates to find out that their decisions have no gameplay impact beyond cameos. Like I said, only a few characters from ME2 warrant squadmate inclusion in ME3 because of their roles within the universe. 

Modifié par Googlesaurus, 05 novembre 2010 - 08:27 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Rob_J_R wrote...

And can we get a moderator to LOCK this goddamn thread? it's pissing me off

A thread like this was stickied once for quite a while...

[mineralica]

Optimist is here. Btw, I hope next time I'll see such thread I'll see question mark, too - or it looks as discussion of something official.

1. what's the point to make repeating speeches of importance of choices, make possibility of different stories and don't use it? To troll own forum? To join Bethesda with her Radiant AI?

2. making basic squad for ME3 consist of less loved characters with possibility to include more loved by importing save is great hook for newcomers to go and buy ME2. For example, newcomers will get Lia'Vael or nameless quarian from Illium with similar model and same animation and battle talents as Tali, several replacements for other loved characters, and several not popular - Jacob, Grunt, Samara as examples. So ME2 will serve as one big DLC for ME3.

3. The reason of possibility of changing squad in ME2 was that ME1 ended too good - Shepard is beloved rich hero, and Council agree to be his (her) ally. No way to development in ME2. In the end of ME2 Shepard is in unpleasant position - everyone blames him in working with Cerberus, governments don't trust him, Cerberus theirselves are not trustworthy (or Shep shown TIM finger). My main char has, as a bonus, LI who said that loved her. In this situation any changes will be justified - no need in global catastrophe.

4. Sorry, but I don't belive in that VS, Wrex and Liara still be tiny cameos until complete end of series won't prove opposite.

[Fiery Phoenix]

InHarmsWay wrote...

Here's why I believe they will be squadmates in ME3:

ME2:
"Shepard, recruit the best of the best for your squad! They are the best in their fields. Completely unrivaled in skill. With them you will be unstoppable."

ME3:
"Shepard, recruit a whole new squad of soldiers."

It would be the ultimate slap in the face to constantly state in ME2 that you are recruiting the best soldiers and scientists for your team and then in ME3 lose them all and have to recruit an entirely new team of soldiers. It makes your choices for the suicide mission pointless if they only return as cameos.

This, a hundred times over.

And I have no idea, but seriously, if ME3 turns out to be another game where I'm going to recruit a new bunch of fashion whiners (even if it's just three or four and not as many as before), then that means ME2 might as well not have existed at all. At all...

[Ieldra]

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

InHarmsWay wrote...

Here's why I believe they will be squadmates in ME3:

ME2:
"Shepard, recruit the best of the best for your squad! They are the best in their fields. Completely unrivaled in skill. With them you will be unstoppable."

ME3:
"Shepard, recruit a whole new squad of soldiers."

It would be the ultimate slap in the face to constantly state in ME2 that you are recruiting the best soldiers and scientists for your team and then in ME3 lose them all and have to recruit an entirely new team of soldiers. It makes your choices for the suicide mission pointless if they only return as cameos.

This, a hundred times over.

And I have no idea, but seriously, if ME3 turns out to be another game where I'm going to recruit a new bunch of fashion whiners (even if it's just three or four and not as many as before), then that means ME2 might as well not have existed at all. At all...

....and there won't be any emotional investment in ME3's character either, because we've learned it's to be set up for disappointment. It'd be wrong in so many ways I really don't believe they'll do it.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 05 novembre 2010 - 08:53 .

[davidshooter]

Googlesaurus wrote...

davidshooter wrote...

Googlesaurus wrote...

davidshooter wrote...

This is false. When one considers that a return of a potentially dead squadmate is going to cost "in addition to" whatever the new placeholder character is to those who have the original character dead. Bioware is not going to create and voice a dozen characters in addition to those that will be needed if most of your ME2 squad is dead.

So "new character + old character" > "new character". How does that disprove my point? 

Most of the ME2 characters are not relevant enough to warrant more than a cameo anyway. But they could contribute something important to the overall story beyond letting us know they exist. 

Creating a new character for some "in addiion to" recreating an old charcter for others is not, and never will be, cheaper than a new character for everybody.  I can't think of any recent game that has invested in a character - as major as a ME2 squadmate - that would only appear in some games.  Every ME2 squadmate can be dead - each one that is created and voiced for ME3 is a redundancy - I just don't see this getting past the EA financing dept.

Creating new characters takes more time and effort than reintroducing old characters on a 1-1 basis (which was my entire point). You're just arguing simple mathematics. They won't bring back all the old characters simply because they don't want to push away new players who have no experience with the series. Bioware wanted ME2 to be a stand-alone game and they'll do it with ME3, which means imports and all import consequences must be unnecessary in order to win. There are enough plot points so that they can either bring them back as cameos, bring them back as squadmates, or get rid of them completely with some explanation. However, it would be a kick in the teeth for players who bothered to save Wrex and all their ME2 squadmates to find out that their decisions have no gameplay impact beyond cameos. Like I said, only a few characters from ME2 warrant squadmate inclusion in ME3 because of their roles within the universe. 

Sorry Google, I quoted you by mistake and then just requoted my mistake in my second reply to you - I thought I was responding to a completely different point by a different poster.  I think I pretty much agree with you on everything (although I'm not holding my breath for the return of any ME2 squadmates but I'm hoping)  Sorry for the confusion - total brain fart on my part.

Modifié par davidshooter, 05 novembre 2010 - 08:58 .

[Googlesaurus]

davidshooter wrote...

Sorry Google, I quoted you by mistake and then just requoted my mistake in my second reply to you - I thought I was responding to a completely different point by a different poster.  I think I pretty much agree with you on everything (although I'm not holding my breath for the return of any ME2 squadmates but I'm hoping)  Sorry for the confusion - total brain fart on my part.

Don't sweat it. 

[Pacifien]

A thread that contains an unpopular or contrary opinion is not going to automatically qualify it for a lock. This is a public forum where all opinions are welcome so long as the discussions remain civil and within the site rules. If the opinions in the thread are driving you to anger or you find that responding is a waste of time, you'd be better served by simply moving on. If I had to lock threads because people didn't like what was being said, my reputation as a lock-happy red panda would increase tenfold.

If the thread moves into territory that goes against any of the Site Rules, by all means, report the thread (or specific posts) to a moderator.

[blackashes411]

Pacifien wrote...

AClockworkMelon wrote...

Pacifien wrote...
Just because you can't fathom how it can be done doesn't mean it can't be done.

I'm capable of fathoming it. It just isn't very realistic to think that that's what will happen.

So the purpose of this thread is so you can go on record that you believe none of the ME2 party will appear as anything more than cameos just so you can say "I told you so" to anyone who disagrees with you?

You don't know anything. Nobody does. You can't break the bad news that the ME2 squadmates are only going to be cameos in ME3 because you can't possibly know that. This comment: "you're acting as if it's my idea. If I'm correct, and I think it only logical that I am in this case, it's Bioware's idea" is completely false. You assume that BioWare believes as you do. The only logical conclusion anyone can make is that BioWare is going to do what they want, not what you think is logical.

This is what I'll conclude with this thread. I shall waste no time here. Thank you.

Oh I also like how AClockworkMelon completely ignored this post by Pacifen for HOURS. No "logical" rebuttal to this, it seems. Just pointing that out. 

Modifié par blackashes411, 06 novembre 2010 - 03:10 .

[RocShemp]

AClockworkMelon wrote...

 Right?

Because they can all potentially die at the end of ME2 and it'd be a waste of resources to create fully integrated party members with banter, Normandy hangouts and conversations, etc, if it all might go to waste. 

So my guess is that you won't see Tali, Garrus, Grunt, Jack, etc, as party members in ME3. You'll just get cameo glimpses a la Kaidan/Ashley/Wrex. 

Liara is a possibility, though I wouldn't particularly like that because it'll screw over everyone who chose anyone else as their LI. 

By that logic, Shepard wouldn't be in ME3 either.  He can actually die at the end of the suicide mission.  So I guess that leaves Joker as the protagonist of ME3.

[GracefulChicken]

From what I can gather from this thread, people want their squad mates back so they dont feel they wasted their time. But if you really cared about wasting time, you wouldnt have debated a fictional issue about a fictional universe for hours and hours in a thread that has 0 proof for either side. And if emotional investment is your concern, I suggest connections with things not made up of algorithms and pixels. Bioware created me2 as a stand-alone game with throwbacks and pure fan-service (with 0 contribution to story, regardless of choices made) to those who played their last installment in the series. Given whats been revealed about DA2 (and DA:Awakening, actually), we know thats the current theme in all their games. Why would they change that for me3? Bioware is a company dedicated to making money, not to making fanboys happy, and a stand-alone me3 will be no different in my opinion. Take your emotions out of the debate and its the only foresight that makes any sense whatsoever. Me3 is probably going to be a blockbuster title come release, and alot of those people will be first time players. It doesnt make any sense that they'd cater exclusively to existing players and just give us the exact same squad we created in me2 with no additions for people not familiar with the story so far, not to mention fans who know the story and want more characters to learn about (like myself), not just the same old people we know about already (and most of whom have built-in reasons for leaving in me3) And chances are, you'll buy me3 even if it goes against what you wanted it to be, and chances are Bioware is totally aware of that fact.

You dont have to agree, but you can't be upset either way, because it really isnt Bioware's job to make fanboys happy. What they've done to make fanboys happy is purely out of the "goodness of their heart," so to speak. None of it was nessecary, so instead of arguing that they should keep doing it, you should just be thankful they did it at all, because they really didnt have to.

Again, you dont have to agree, but its hard to argue against the fact that everyone is debating their own opinion based on no facts (myself included). Whats more useless than the uninformed opinion of a total stranger? A debate about those opinions. Essentially, what BW "should do" or "could do" have no relation to what they will do.

[Fiery Phoenix]

GracefulChicken wrote...
*big fat snip*

[Jaron Oberyn]

AClockworkMelon wrote...

 Right?

Because they can all potentially die at the end of ME2 and it'd be a waste of resources to create fully integrated party members with banter, Normandy hangouts and conversations, etc, if it all might go to waste. 

Which would pretty much change this game from an RPG to a 3rd person shooter.  
Just because they could potentially die doesn't mean it'd be a waste. We've gone over this many times before, but I'll touch on one point that Casey Hudson made. He said he's not worried about people missing content in some of their playthroughs because the different outcomes add to the replay value. It's also common sense to assume that. So no, it won't go to waste. Mass Effect 3 is going to be shaped by all of the decisions of the first two games. ALL of them. including the decisions that resulted in a person dying, or living. And given the ending of ME2, I sincerely doubt that Shepard's going to have to put together another team when he already has the galaxy's "dirty dozen".

-Polite

[Phaedon]

I love how in all threads everyone is certain that 'they can't return to ME3 because it's too expensive'.



It's not as if the voice actors are expensive or famous.

[Legbiter]

The "unkillables" (Liara, Ashley/Kaiden) will be NPC's in ME 3 plus all the potential LI's at the very least. What, you think Bioware wants to risk the ire of the Talimancers because they just made do with giving her a cameo in ME 3? Bioware staff have feelings and are as terrified of them as we are.

Modifié par Legbiter, 08 novembre 2010 - 01:12 .

[rogershoe]

It will be tricky beyond belief. But in all honesty, they'd probably treat an all dead squadmate save the same as a dead Shepard save.

Phaedon wrote...

I love how in all threads everyone is certain that 'they can't return to ME3 because it's too expensive'.

It's not as if the voice actors are expensive or famous.

You have no idea how expensive recording a studio to do lines is, do you? Also, the developer's time is expensive.