74 réponses à ce sujet

[Captain_Obvious_au]

Honestly, I like Jacob, but never considered him to be particularly useful. More useful since I gave him Assault Rifles, but still not that useful. However yesterday I started a new playthrough on Insanity (after only playing at Normal). After dying about five times as the result of LOKI mechs I started ot get the hang on Insanity, but was really dreading the YMIR mech battle.

When it came about, I started playing hide & seek with it - with me running around the crates, and the YMIR trying to get around them to attack me. Once the team and I had stripped it of its shields and armour though, it suddenly collapsed! Of course we poured fire into it and killed it nice and fast. Now I'm assuming it was Jacob using Pull and not Miranda using Warp. If it was Miranda, I guess this post is pointless.

Anyway it was just the first time in playing ME2 that I actually found Jacob useful, rather than just taking up space another squaddie could be using.

[Collider]

Jacob is pretty useful on lower levels with lvl 1 pull and maxed out inferno ammo.

Modifié par Collider, 05 novembre 2010 - 10:08 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

You gave Jacob what?!

[mineralica]

Yeah, Jacob is actually useful - when you can't pick somebody else. Pull, as well as throw, as well as concussive shot, as well as shockwave, as well as charge - as well as any controlling abilities stops YMIR on several seconds. If I want pick a tank on mission, I prefer Grunt - same incendiary ammo and barrier, but plus very fast regeneration and incredible amount of health. But on Insanity pull becomes a real problem - can't use on any type of defence, when use, you should kill flying enemy very fast. As for me, for Insanity I chose someone with warp if I only knew that enemies will be organics, and someone with Heavy Overload for sintetics. Boom!

[Fiery Phoenix]

I'm at a loss; the OP says he gave Jacob assault rifle training. Is that even possible? Or am I misunderstanding something here?

[Zulu_DFA]

On PC. It's possible to re-arm the squad members, among other things.

[curly haired boy]

jacob's quite useful. he can give you squad incendiary ammo when your class doesn't have it, he synergizes quite well with miranda, and given a GPS, he's pretty great at killing enemies, even on insanity.

[Dean_the_Young]

Jacob's a classic Vanguard. You can put him between you and the enemy, and with some points into barrier he'll just sop up damage. It takes some managing, but it's good.



Jacob has use for most of the biotic classes via pull. Set up a warp explosion, just remove enemies from play (and make vanguard charges more effective in general),



The biggest limitation for him was always the weapons. But with the Firepower pack, he gets closer to as much range and punch as everyone else, so it's mitigated. He isn't an armor-stripper, but he's definitely a suitable meat-sponge/combo-starter.

[Captain_Obvious_au]

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

I'm at a loss; the OP says he gave Jacob assault rifle training. Is that even possible? Or am I misunderstanding something here?

As Zulu notes, it's because I've done some selective editing on the PC. Jacob now has Assault Rifles and Pistols

[lazuli]

curly haired boy wrote...

jacob's quite useful. he can give you squad incendiary ammo when your class doesn't have it, he synergizes quite well with miranda, and given a GPS, he's pretty great at killing enemies, even on insanity.

Agreed.  His Barrier used to be more of a liability than anything else*, but with the Shadow Broker re-spec, I rank Jacob as just behind Miranda in usefulness.


*On difficulties above normal (is there any way to say that without sounding like a snob?).

[Cra5y Pineapple]

I only really needed him to get the Tactican achievment but yes, he's useful on lower levels if you don't have pull.

[Julie the bogan]

If you have to go so far as to mod the game to make a squadie worthwhile, then I think that's something the dev's need to address heh
never used Jacob past the first couple of missions myself.

Modifié par Julie Shepard, 06 novembre 2010 - 03:44 .

[lazuli]

Julie Shepard wrote...

If you have to go so far as to mod the game to make a squadie worthwhile, then I think that's something the dev's need to address heh
never used Jacob past the first couple of missions myself.

I've never modded my game (360), but Jacob with a GPS easily outshines squadmates using AR's for damage.

[ADLegend21]

Yeah Jacob is pretty useful. he has suprisingly good range with the shotgun. (saved my ass from a krogan from about fifty feet on mordins mission) and when you let him use his pwoers freely and he has barrier he just activates it and keeps on shooting. and as stated previously he's amazing when you play vanguard. makes charging more fun since you don't have to use your pull and can just launch some poor sap into orbit.

[philiposophy]

Jacob is an underrated squadmate and I think he can retain a high level of utility until the endgame depending on your class.

Unless I'm forgetting someone, only Jacob, Jack and Samara have pull so there's a high likelihood that you'll be using one of these if you want to set up warp bombs.

Jacob is the best early game because he has incendiary ammo that can be given to your squad.

Mid to late game, it gets murkier. When Jacob becomes loyal, he starts spamming barrier, which means you can't rely on him to be able to cast pull when you need him to. However the LotSB respec option makes this no longer relevant. Another thing to consider is that Jack and Samara get cooldown reductions from their passives, but Jacob doesn't, so later in the game you may find Jacob to be found somewhat wanting as a puller.

However, neither Jack nor Samara have a squad ammo power on the same level as incendiary. Jack has warp ammo but that doesn't provide crowd control like incendiary, plus she can't max pull, warp ammo and her passive simultaneously because she has shockwave. If you're a combat class, you'll have your own squad ammo powers, so Jacob's advantage there may be cancelled out. If you're not, then he's still a great asset.

Basically, I think that for warp explosions, Jacob is your best bet if you're an engineer, adept or sentinel. If you're a soldier, vanguard or infiltrator I recommend Jack* or Samara.


*It's slightly off topic but in this choice I'd pick Jack, because Samara can't max reave, pull and her passive simultaneously, and I wouldn't want to max warp ammo for Jack so I can still get primal adept and pull field.

[Homebound]

This thread is WRONG! Jacob is NOT actually useful! Dx

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

I'm a vanguard. Never needed Jacob, I have reave, warp and shockwave, what more do you need (I rarely use Jack or Samara for the same reason, but at least they have a good character.) I am sorry to say this, but Jacob just seems like the token 'human male romance option.' No depth, always gets himslef killed, and pull pretty much does the same job as shockwave and throw. And if he's in ME3, I'd like to see him get a personality.

[FrancisKitt]

He's actually quite useful with Miranda against the Blood Pack on higher levels, if Miranda strips their defences with warp (as well as Jacob's inferno ammo) and then hits them with a pull. Plus he once randomly took out Garm for me despite being miles away and still using his shotgun.

[lazuli]

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...

I'm a vanguard. Never needed Jacob, I have reave, warp and shockwave, what more do you need (I rarely use Jack or Samara for the same reason, but at least they have a good character.) I am sorry to say this, but Jacob just seems like the token 'human male romance option.' No depth, always gets himslef killed, and pull pretty much does the same job as shockwave and throw. And if he's in ME3, I'd like to see him get a personality.

How do you have Warp as a Vanguard?  Other squadmates?

Jacob is useful for Vanguards.  Most Vanguard builds focus on mastering Charge and then the class passive.  Jacob is used to cover your ammo power until you have the points to invest in it yourself.

[achwas]

Strangely enough, even with my Vanguard; I still find him utterly useless.For one, while I use "Vanguard Charge" Shockwave is the far more useful tool in the V's arsenal in most situations



"Pull" is sort of fun, but I'd rather take a squadmate with an offensive power that actually works on protected targets, or even "Throw" instead of "Pull". Incendiary ammo is... rather pointless with armour-piercing ammo around, and Grunt provides that as well, with a superior weapon mix, plus self-healing, Concussive Shot and an extra heavy shotgun. No competition there on the "utility" front.

[lazuli]

achwas wrote...

Strangely enough, even with my Vanguard; I still find him utterly useless.For one, while I use "Vanguard Charge" Shockwave is the far more useful tool in the V's arsenal in most situations

"Pull" is sort of fun, but I'd rather take a squadmate with an offensive power that actually works on protected targets, or even "Throw" instead of "Pull". Incendiary ammo is... rather pointless with armour-piercing ammo around, and Grunt provides that as well, with a superior weapon mix, plus self-healing, Concussive Shot and an extra heavy shotgun. No competition there on the "utility" front.

I respect that players prefer to play the game in different ways.  However, I'm having trouble understanding how you can claim Shockwave is more important to a Vanguard than Charge, especially when later on in your post you imply that you prefer offensive powers that actually work on protected targets.  And if you're playing a Vanguard for Shockwave, why aren't you playing an Adept?  Adepts have faster cooldowns and can get more use out of Shockwave.

And Incendiary Ammo is not pointless when compared to AP Ammo.  Incendiary Ammo can trigger crowd control effects (panic dance for being on fire) through defenses.  Additionally, you can evolve Incendiary Ammo to hit an area of effect.  I'm not claiming that Incendiary Ammo will do more damage to a single target than AP Ammo, but Incendiary has far more utility.

Pull and Throw serve two very different purposes, although they can both be considered crowd control.  Pull is probably the more widely useful of the two, as it has the ability to disable enemies for a longer period of time and can be used to start Warp explosions.

But let's discuss Grunt.  You claim he has more utility than Jacob.  They both offer Incendiary Ammo, although Jacob has easier access to it and can master it without spending points in another ability.  I can't see why you'd say Concussive Shot is a better option than Pull.  It simply isn't.  Concussive Shot is widely regarded as one of the weakest powers in the game.  When I use Grunt, I do max it out into the area effect form just so he can take out groups of Husks, but more often than not his cooldown is used up by Fortification.  Grunt has the krogan charge ability going for him, which is awesome.  He's also good at surviving under a lot of pressure.  He's a fantastic tank.  I don't think his utility exceeds Jacob's though.  As for their weaponry, if you have the GPS there's nothing else that either of them should ever be using, so it doesn't even matter.

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

lazuli wrote...

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...

I'm a vanguard. Never needed Jacob, I have reave, warp and shockwave, what more do you need (I rarely use Jack or Samara for the same reason, but at least they have a good character.) I am sorry to say this, but Jacob just seems like the token 'human male romance option.' No depth, always gets himslef killed, and pull pretty much does the same job as shockwave and throw. And if he's in ME3, I'd like to see him get a personality.

How do you have Warp as a Vanguard?  Other squadmates?

Jacob is useful for Vanguards.  Most Vanguard builds focus on mastering Charge and then the class passive.  Jacob is used to cover your ammo power until you have the points to invest in it yourself.

Sorry, Thane has warp. He is one of the people I always take with me on missions (with Garrus being the other.) I've recently done the game on insanity, and as I prefer to take out enemies from long distances, I almost bever used charge. If I did, it was a last resort against a nearby Krogan or something. Jacob has no powers that focus on hurting enemies or taking down their defences immediately (such as warp, reave, overload, incinerate etc.) Which is why I found him useless. Nevermind his lack of character. Poor guy.

[lazuli]

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...

Sorry, Thane has warp. He is one of the people I always take with me on missions (with Garrus being the other.) I've recently done the game on insanity, and as I prefer to take out enemies from long distances, I almost bever used charge. If I did, it was a last resort against a nearby Krogan or something. Jacob has no powers that focus on hurting enemies or taking down their defences immediately (such as warp, reave, overload, incinerate etc.) Which is why I found him useless. Nevermind his lack of character. Poor guy.

Thanks for clarifying.  That's how I played my first Vanguard on Insanity.  Getting comfortable with close combat can take a while, but once you attain a suitable level of mastery with it, nothing else is as thrilling in ME2.

[achwas]

lazuli wrote...
I respect that players prefer to play the game in different ways.  However, I'm having trouble understanding how you can claim Shockwave is more important to a Vanguard than Charge, especially when later on in your post you imply that you prefer offensive powers that actually work on protected targets.  And if you're playing a Vanguard for Shockwave, why aren't you playing an Adept?  Adepts have faster cooldowns and can get more use out of Shockwave.

And Incendiary Ammo is not pointless when compared to AP Ammo.  Incendiary Ammo can trigger crowd control effects (panic dance for being on fire) through defenses.  Additionally, you can evolve Incendiary Ammo to hit an area of effect.  I'm not claiming that Incendiary Ammo will do more damage to a single target than AP Ammo, but Incendiary has far more utility.

Pull and Throw serve two very different purposes, although they can both be considered crowd control.  Pull is probably the more widely useful of the two, as it has the ability to disable enemies for a longer period of time and can be used to start Warp explosions.

But let's discuss Grunt.  You claim he has more utility than Jacob.  They both offer Incendiary Ammo, although Jacob has easier access to it and can master it without spending points in another ability.  I can't see why you'd say Concussive Shot is a better option than Pull.  It simply isn't.  Concussive Shot is widely regarded as one of the weakest powers in the game.  When I use Grunt, I do max it out into the area effect form just so he can take out groups of Husks, but more often than not his cooldown is used up by Fortification.  Grunt has the krogan charge ability going for him, which is awesome.  He's also good at surviving under a lot of pressure.  He's a fantastic tank.  I don't think his utility exceeds Jacob's though.  As for their weaponry, if you have the GPS there's nothing else that either of them should ever be using, so it doesn't even matter.

I play a Vanguard because I played one in ME-1. I dislike "Charge" mostly because its not very useful against the tougher mobs in the game, who have shields barriers or are simply immune to it like Praetorians. Against groups of opponents it disabeles one targets, a few more if they are conveniently spaced and Area-effect was actually skilled. Which usually leaves you, with CD in the middle of a bunch of other trigger-happy guys. you forfeit control over the fight for a a short moment of glory. I don't care for that.

On the other hand Shockwave cuts a broad swath through enemy groups, ignores cover, does damage and knocks people about, out of cover and leaving them prone. Useful points each of them, in my book.. Nevermind it removing cover permanently and exploding hazardous objects, usually in the midst of  enemy formations. All of it in one go, no combo required

And Shockwave is a tier-2 power for Vanguards, requiring a minimum investment of 3 points in another power to reach it. On Adepts it's Tier-3, and requries an extra 3 points. Nevermind that Adepts are... in my book... rather uninspired. Some people like them, I don't

Crowd Control in Me-2 is a sad joke (say in comparison to DA:O's "sleep" spell which basically knocked entire brigades out ) .... You incapacite one target - unless you get very lucky with Singularity -  opponent who cannot actually have any special defenses up anyway ... instead you could "Throw" someone for damage, inconvenient placement and being knocked prone.You can "Slam" people away, doing damage and again dropping them prone, You can "Shockwave" them for damage, Area effect and knocking them prone. Never mind setting people on fire with Incinerate.... All for the same price, similar cooldown and speed of casting. With superior targeting on everything else. So why delay a single target if you can eliminate him in the same amount of time ?
So why exactly should I use "Pull" again ?

And I prefer "offensive powers" on my companions, since it is the sole reliable way of focusing them on the target I want, not the target bioware's algorithms pick for them.

As for concussion shot being "weak".. says who ? Instant effect, not actually requring a line of sight from the shooter to target, convenient against barriers, will knock people about even with shields if placed close to them. Yeah, no great graphic effects, little potential for combos...... But, it gets the job done fast, on target and with handy benefits. "Pull" does little, except provide a foundation power for Warp-bombs and for high-flying "Charge" victims... but basically you can only do that to targets you can effect with "Pull", hence worn down or unprotected targets who will die from  your charge or the follow-up shot of your weapon anyway ?
..... actually I prefer to keep my kills simple and reliable, and the skin covering my Shepard mostly intact.

I also heavily disagree on the GPS. It is nice and very useful, but companions using it (or any other Shotgun) tend to crawl up to opponents, heedless of flanking situation or cover. I prefer Grunt to hammer away with an AR,  say the Mattock, then switch him to the shotgun once and if enemies have crawled up. Jacob on the other hand has two short range weapons, no offensive power that will affect protected targets, does not regenerate and has mediocre "class-powers".  That's why I prefer Grunt.

Modifié par achwas, 08 novembre 2010 - 12:25 .

[lizzbee]

I just finished my "Jacob playthrough" on Veteran, and I really don't understand how anyone finds him useful.  This Shep was a Sentinel, and even though "Pull" is touted as a great combo power, I really didn't get that much use out of it. 

Against the 8 billion YMIR mechs in the game, Jacob was instantly dead (don't ask me about the twin YMIRs in the Blue Suns' base-- I counted at least four uses of Unity), and in the suicide mission, he didn't do much at all since most of the enemies are covered in some sort of barrier and Harbinger's also armored.  I skipped the cargo recovery mission completely this last  playthrough just becase Jacob's barrier can't stand up even to a YMIR mech's gunfire, let alone a missile, and the man has a nasty tendency to go kamikaze at the slightest provocation.  Hell, the first YMIR mech at Freedom's Progress knocked him down three times and completely exhausted my medigel supply.

My usual crew during the final battle is Thane, with Garrus, Mordin or Miranda as a second.  This time, it was Jacob and Thane, and for the first time, I actually saw the intermediate enemies.  Mordin can hold them off handily, as can Miranda and Garrus.  Hell, on my last Veteran playthrough, with my Infiltrator Shep, Jack kept them completely at bay.  Harbinger knocked me out of cover just as the Reaper did its little fire vortex thing.  Nice.  And Jacob had no way of doing any damage to Harbinger at all...  Plus, I was short a team-mate's power in knocking out the Reaper, which sucks, since powers are usually a lot more effective than heavy weapons.  That made things extra fun-- seeing that power bar completely unused... taunting me.

Modifié par lizzbee, 08 novembre 2010 - 02:40 .