74 réponses à ce sujet

[lizzbee]

achwas wrote...

all of this is valid - but it cannot be consistently planned for. You charge into groups, not seeing the one guy behind the box with the shotgun = probable reload. Nevermind him being a Krogan or just that second "assuming control"
You go for a warp bomb and the warp effect hangs up on the corner of an object, foiling the bomb = probable reload.
Sidestepping and placing  your opponent into the line of fire = possible, but do you you honestly care to keep that guy alive to use him as a shield ... he is likely shooting at you himself^^ ...Probable reload

Speaking for myself,  I try to not "reload" during any mission, since it is a roleplaying game, not an FPS. Mileage of course varies.There are moments when it really shines - say in the Kasumi LM, but usually it is about "bragging rights or reload"

Nice to see I'm not the only one who plays to survive   I loathe dying with a passion, and there's nothing I hate more than replaying most of a big boss fight, cutscenes and all, after Shep's unfortunate demise.  I'm also probably one of the few known to pick up sniper rifle training for my Vanguards.  Charging a scion isn't exactly the best way to come out of a mission alive.  Charging just about anything in mobs isn't really a recipe for living either.  I charge at husks when there aren't any biggies around, or those random few sniperish enemies remaining in the back of a room after everything else is dead.  Also Tela Vasir, but that's it.  Shockwave's far more useful to me.

PrinceLionheart wrote...

Honestly, I really hate the "I
hate this squadmate because he dies a lot" because it's really a cop-out
argument. Any squadmate can die easily on higher difficulties if you
don't manage him/her right. Even Grunt will get ripped to shreds by the
YMIR mechs or Praetorions.Thing I like about Jacob is he is one of the
better "support" squadmates. He lacks defense stripping abilities, but
he does good damage with the GPS, comes with Squad Incendiary (which is
perfect for Caster classes who lack ammo powers and, in my opinion, the
second best Squad Ammo) and pull to set of Warp bombs.

And we are all entitled to our various opinions.  Any squadmate can die, yes, but some die more frequently than others and require far more management.  Jacob's in the latter category, unfortunately, and he doesn't bring much more than base support skills to the table to make his micromanagement worthwhile.  I find his "support" skills to be far outstripped by other squadmates' special abilities or by most of Shep's class and bonus powers.  If I have a choice, I'm going to pick the squadmate who requires the least amount of management and who can do the most shield or armor stripping, especially in a very tight combat situation.

[ObserverStatus]

look at this...

[lazuli]

lizzbee wrote...

Nice to see I'm not the only one who plays to survive   I loathe dying with a passion, and there's nothing I hate more than replaying most of a big boss fight, cutscenes and all, after Shep's unfortunate demise.  I'm also probably one of the few known to pick up sniper rifle training for my Vanguards.  Charging a scion isn't exactly the best way to come out of a mission alive.  Charging just about anything in mobs isn't really a recipe for living either.  I charge at husks when there aren't any biggies around, or those random few sniperish enemies remaining in the back of a room after everything else is dead.  Also Tela Vasir, but that's it.  Shockwave's far more useful to me.

Plenty of experienced Vanguard players take the sniper rifle.  The Viper is handy for priming a particularly dangerous group of enemies before the initial Charge.  This makes even more sense on the xbox, when using the reload trick isn't as reliable as it is on the PC, making the Claymore a complicated choice.

I will confess that I don't know how effective Shockwave is.  I have next to no experience using it on any difficulty below Insanity, so I can't speak to that.

[AntiChri5]

Shockwave is the second worse ability in the game.

[PrinceLionheart]

AntiChri5 wrote...

Shockwave is the second worse ability in the game.

Fortification and Shredder Ammo are both worst. 

[ashwind]

PrinceLionheart wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

Shockwave is the second worse ability in the game.

Fortification and Shredder Ammo are both worst. 

Fortification works great for Grunt  Especially against Husk

[AntiChri5]

Shredder ammo increases damage against organic enemies once you strip their protection.

Useful? Not really.

Completely invalidated by AP ammo?

Pretty much yeah.

Still better then Shockwave?

Yep.

[ashwind]

 I think the problem with Jacob (at least for me) is that Jacob is not exceptionally good at anything. Like many others, I only find his Squad Incineration Ammo useful until I get other ammo power.

Jacob's unique power Cerberus Operative gives him Health and Weapon Damage:

Using Jacob as Tank/Distraction: 
Grunt is just so much better acting as a distraction and tank - the Krogan Charge and the Krogan regen makes Grunt just so much better.

Using Jacob to set up Warp bombs:
Jack and Samara are far superior because they have 25% faster cooldown from their unique skill.

Basically I can almost always find someone else to do the job Jacob does and do it better.
p/s: I have to agree that Shredder Ammo is less useful than Shockwave  On insanity, you can actually Area Incinerate Husk Armor and Shockwave them - not the best option but still better than Shredder imo 

Modifié par ashwind, 09 novembre 2010 - 05:24 .

[AntiChri5]

Far too specific a situation.

All you have to do is incinerate or overload any organic and Shredder ammo becomes less useless.

And husks are the only enemies who can reliably be hit with Shockwave as they simply charge. Everything else just sidesteps.

[lazuli]

ashwind wrote...
Basically I can almost always find someone else to do the job Jacob does and do it better.

Jacob is a generalist.  He is not just a Pull-bot.  He is not just a tank.  He is not just ammo support.

While Samara, Morinth, and Jack can use Pull more often, you're not going to be able to master all of their best abilities on the same build.  Jacob is the only character in the game that has access to Pull with no prerequisites.  Not even Adept Shepard can boast that.

And Jacob's Incendiary Ammo has no prerequisite either, unlike Grunt's.  So he is better at ammo support in that regard.  I won't claim he is a better tank than Grunt, though.  I don't care for Barrier at all on Jacob.

[ashwind]

lazuli wrote...
Jacob is a generalist.  He is not just a Pull-bot.  He is not just a tank.  He is not just ammo support.

Agreed. Sort of a Jack of all trades, master of none. Which is why maybe later in game he becomes less "useful".

[lazuli]

ashwind wrote...

lazuli wrote...
Jacob is a generalist.  He is not just a Pull-bot.  He is not just a tank.  He is not just ammo support.

Agreed. Sort of a Jack of all trades, master of none. Which is why maybe later in game he becomes less "useful".

Exactly, though this is more often the case for combat classes (Soldier, Vanguard, Infiltrator) than the casters.  They can get lasting use out of his Incendiary Ammo.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Sursion wrote...

Jacob is useful until you get a third squad mate.

If you downloaded the free DLC for Zaeed, that means he's "useful" on Lazarus and Freedom's Progress.

Then you get Zaeed on the way into Omega for the first time, and Jacob sits in his gun closet until his LM.  Which I don't care for, because it has a couple moments of especially bad science, and the timeline discontinuties.

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 09 novembre 2010 - 06:01 .

[PrinceLionheart]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Sursion wrote...

Jacob is useful until you get a third squad mate.

If you downloaded the free DLC for Zaeed, that means he's "useful" on Lazarus and Freedom's Progress.

That is invalid since in both Omega missions Jacob is far more useful than Zaeed since his squad Incendiary ammo cancels out the health regen you'll be facing with Vorcha and Krogans. 

Modifié par PrinceLionheart, 09 novembre 2010 - 08:50 .

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Jacob's a middle-tier squadmate.

Decent powers and good survivability, but he lacks a stand-alone offensive skill. Don't get me started on the awful weapon selection.

Only truly useful for very specfic builds, not to mention bonus powers sort of ruin it since he has one of the two baseline ammo powers.

Modifié par DarthCyclopsRLZ, 09 novembre 2010 - 09:52 .

[lazuli]

DarthCyclopsRLZ wrote...

Jacob's a middle-tier squadmate.

Decent powers and good survivability, but he lacks a stand-alone offensive skill. Don't get me started on the awful weapon selection.

Only truly useful for very specfic builds, not to mention bonus powers sort of ruin it since he has one of the two baseline ammo powers.

In vanilla ME2, Jacob's weapon selection is awful.  As has been said on this thread, the Firepower DLC gives him the GPS, making his weapon selection a lot stronger than before.

[Killjoy Cutter]

PrinceLionheart wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Sursion wrote...

Jacob is useful until you get a third squad mate.

If you downloaded the free DLC for Zaeed, that means he's "useful" on Lazarus and Freedom's Progress.

That is invalid since in both Omega missions Jacob is far more useful than Zaeed since his squad Incendiary ammo cancels out the health regen you'll be facing with Vorcha and Krogans. 

I've never seen it make enough difference to matter.  I'd much rather have Zaeed's far more capable combat skills, access to ARs, etc. 

OTOH, I might have to try Jacob out on those missions now that I modded him to carry ARs instead of shotguns.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

lazuli wrote...

In vanilla ME2, Jacob's weapon selection is awful.  As has been said on this thread, the Firepower DLC gives him the GPS, making his weapon selection a lot stronger than before.

Don't shotguns still get the weakest DPS on squadmates? No to mention it ges even worse in mid/long-ranged fights.

There's also the problem of him not having a rapid-fire weapons so to get a bonus to damage against shields/barriers. I wouldn't be surprised if most modders would give an AR instead of that shotgun...

[lazuli]

DarthCyclopsRLZ wrote...
Don't shotguns still get the weakest DPS on squadmates? No to mention it ges even worse in mid/long-ranged fights.

There's also the problem of him not having a rapid-fire weapons so to get a bonus to damage against shields/barriers. I wouldn't be surprised if most modders would give an AR instead of that shotgun...

With any other shotgun than the GPS, I'm sure the DPS would be lacking on squadmates.  My experience with Jacob (and any other squadmate using the GPS) has been favorable, though.  As for range, the GPS is great at distances too.  The squadmates don't know this, and will still move forward more frequently than they would while wielding, say, a sniper rifle.

As for shields and barriers, all shotguns deal additional damage to shields and all but one deals additional damage to barriers.  Couple that with the Shotgun Shield Piercing upgrade and shields aren't much of an issue.

[Homey C-Dawg]

 I find that if I and/or another squadmate have warp, I always bring a puller. Jacob is very useful to me while playing insanity since he has pull and incendiary ammo.

Though TBH, I tend to use Jack as my puller as soon as I get her since she's more entertaining and I can reduce her cooldown speed.

Jacob and Miranda actually compliment each other nicely, since if I have overload or energy drain I can drop an enemy's shields, Jacob pulls them, and Miranda warp bombs them. Rinse and repeat. Kills most standard and missle mercs in one combo on insanity.

Modifié par Homey C-Dawg, 11 novembre 2010 - 10:18 .

[GuardianAngel470]

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

You gave Jacob what?!

A very simple coalesced.ini hack. I give Tali ARs too, but it is kinda pointless cuz Legion has ARs.

[Elyvern]

lazuli wrote...

With any other shotgun than the GPS, I'm sure the DPS would be lacking on squadmates.  My experience with Jacob (and any other squadmate using the GPS) has been favorable, though.  As for range, the GPS is great at distances too.  The squadmates don't know this, and will still move forward more frequently than they would while wielding, say, a sniper rifle.

As for shields and barriers, all shotguns deal additional damage to shields and all but one deals additional damage to barriers.  Couple that with the Shotgun Shield Piercing upgrade and shields aren't much of an issue.

Interesting that you say that, because I found that equipping Jacob with the GPS, he actually hangs back alot more often now. And because of the way squad AI is coded, he's an accuracy fiend with that weapon. I actually bring him more often now because of the GPS and the ability to spec out of his barrier using the SB console. He and Miranda are amazingly complementary, and he's moved up so many notches for me as a useful squadmate, I rank him on par with Garrus now, just below Grunt and Zaeed who are both below Miranda, the most ridiculously overpowered squadmate.

[Killjoy Cutter]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

You gave Jacob what?!

A very simple coalesced.ini hack. I give Tali ARs too, but it is kinda pointless cuz Legion has ARs.

What finally moved me to switch out some weapons through editing the .ini is that the cutscenes have so many "but you don't carry that weapon!" moments.  At least the pistols can be justified as sidearms that the characters don't use in combat.  But where does, say, Tali suddenly pull that AR from that you can't arm her with? 

So Jacob and Tali end up with shotgun and AR in my games.

[lazuli]

Elyvern wrote...
Interesting that you say that, because I found that equipping Jacob with the GPS, he actually hangs back alot more often now. And because of the way squad AI is coded, he's an accuracy fiend with that weapon. I actually bring him more often now because of the GPS and the ability to spec out of his barrier using the SB console. He and Miranda are amazingly complementary, and he's moved up so many notches for me as a useful squadmate, I rank him on par with Garrus now, just below Grunt and Zaeed who are both below Miranda, the most ridiculously overpowered squadmate.

His positioning practices warrant further testing.  I'm not aware of AI differences on squadmates wielding weapons of the same type.  For instance, even if they are wielding the Scimitar, squadmates with shotguns always fire once and then reload, right?  Positioning is a bit harder to test.

[Homey C-Dawg]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

You gave Jacob what?!

A very simple coalesced.ini hack. I give Tali ARs too, but it is kinda pointless cuz Legion has ARs.

What finally moved me to switch out some weapons through editing the .ini is that the cutscenes have so many "but you don't carry that weapon!" moments.  At least the pistols can be justified as sidearms that the characters don't use in combat.  But where does, say, Tali suddenly pull that AR from that you can't arm her with? 

So Jacob and Tali end up with shotgun and AR in my games.

LOL I never thought about that, though I have noticed it. Funny that my sentinel/adept/engineer pulls out an avenger AR in so many cut-scenes (especially during the SM). IIRC in ME1 all cut-scenes with Shepard holding a a gun was using the pistol, which all Shepards have. Oh well sorry to go off topic.

Anyway to be more on-topic, I think Jacob is useful through the whole game on any difficulty if you have warp and no ammo powers, or have no ammo powers and use a squadmate for warp bombs frequently. TBH though I think Jack is still a better all around puller since she has warp ammo and pull cooldown reduction.