168 réponses à ce sujet

[Marionetten]

Considering we've yet to see any footage from the mythical PC version I'm going to have to chalk most of it down to horrible marketing.

[Merci357]

This review wasn't as bad as you make it right now. He was full of praise about Isabela, mentioned wonderful voicework as well as great dialogues, well done cutscenes and interesting battles.



His main critic was just the totally barren, lifeless and sterile city, and his conclusion about this is just this: We are just about 4 month away from release (and DA2 goes gold way before this date) - and still the game is so far from done.

[bl00dsh0t]

Take it from someone who speaks german: They do at the end mention that it is a demo, but they are worried that if bioware has something this buggy and incomplete to show off 4 months before release then things are not boding well. They do state the the fights were good, and that they liked the gamescom demo, but that this prerelase version they played was ridden with bugs and graphical hickups to an extent that they would not expect of a section of a bioware game shown to the public 4 months before release.



On the positive side of things they did mention that they really liked Isabella, that she is tune with the usual believable characters of bioware games, that the conversations and cutscenes were great and cinematic flair is definetely working on the previewer.



That being said I view PC Games as one of the better pc gaming magazines out there, they do not pull their punches when they see something they don't like. A preview from another mag might be overly positive I guess. We should keep in mind this was at an EA showcase, they probably didnt get to play for hours so they might have been unlucky and gotten a lot more bugs due to chance... Ahh well make of it what you will

[Reaverwind]

Merci357 wrote...

This review wasn't as bad as you make it right now. He was full of praise about Isabela, mentioned wonderful voicework as well as great dialogues, well done cutscenes and interesting battles.

His main critic was just the totally barren, lifeless and sterile city, and his conclusion about this is just this: We are just about 4 month away from release (and DA2 goes gold way before this date) - and still the game is so far from done.

Yup - he expresses concern that 4 months is enough time based on what they saw. Either that, or Bioware has the worst marketing department in the gaming industry.

[CastorT]

Chris Priestly wrote...

So, I wouldn't get too worried about this review.

Prove us wrong.
You can talk the talk,
but can you walk the walk?

[Luigitornado]

Wow...Bioware employees actually comment?

I'm so glad, I started coming here (wish Nintendo had a community like this ).

Anyway, directly from the employees themselves, this shouldn't be surprising. A common approach to designing (anything) is to start with the big stuff (lay out) and then work the smaller stuff (details).

It is more productive that way.

[In Exile]

Do they list what bugs or other technical problems they are experiencing? This tight release schedule might lead us to another Awakening.

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

Addai67 wrote...
 They confirm what you hear around the forums, that it's much more cinematic.  Which just makes me think- if I wanted to see a movie rather than play a game, I'd see a movie.

Cinematography is a storytelling tool. It doesn't mean "movie" and still won't in DA2. It basically means choosing angles and composing shots and manipulating the camera and setting up lighting to get the right mood out of a scene. You can have nice lighting, well composed shots and interactivity.

Off topic. I just cringe when people knock good camera work.

Modifié par Pseudocognition, 05 novembre 2010 - 04:10 .

[John Epler]

The problem with press demo builds and the like, unfortunately, is that the time to work on them has to come from somewhere - and generally speaking, that somewhere is someone who has a mountain of work to do on the main game that is about 5000 meters high and covered in radioactive lava scorpions. Who can fly.



Once you get a demo that works and is somewhat representative of how the game will eventually look, you put it aside because there's always the possibility that you have one of those days where someone leaves a comma in the wrong place and breaks the entire game as a result. And unless you have a demo build that is miraculously more stable and fancy than the one you originally set aside, you keep the build that you know A) works and looks alright. That does mean, of course, that demo builds tend to be weeks or even months behind what the main game looks like.



The advantage, of course, being that the demo works and you know for sure that it works. Which isn't always the case with the main build. But when you only have finite resources - well, you have to make decisions as to where to spend your time.



Not to mention, again, things like ambient creatures and such are usually among the last things added to a game. You want everything else to work great before you start worrying about having Jim the Salesman hawking his wares from a street corner. Because if you have a game where Jim works but Tim the Critical Path Questgiver is broken, then that is a bad thing.

[Catsith]

JohnEpler wrote...

Well, I'm a biased source (obviously!) but unless I miss my guess, the build that they played didn't have the ambient behaviours set for our 'flavour' NPCs - non-quest NPCs who give the city more of a feeling of life and, well, being an actual city.

Given that, it's certainly an understandable conclusion to draw, though not representative. We have a guy working almost full-time on making cities exciting and interesting!

EDIT: Curse you, Gaider!

Holy crap... does this mean NPCs will actually move around the city? Please say yes.

Or will it be like ME 2 and DA:O, where they just stand around and do random animations and say things.

[Addai]

Er... I do have to point out that according to the article, the demo build didn't work. Considering that they are reporting major bugs as well as disappointment with the art style (and started out by praising characterization and saying that this is a BioWare strength), IMO the review is more than fair. I don't read a lot of gaming reviews, but have seen a few which would have stopped at the bug part and said "it sucks."

Modifié par Addai67, 05 novembre 2010 - 04:16 .

[Merci357]

In Exile wrote...

Do they list what bugs or other technical problems they are experiencing? This tight release schedule might lead us to another Awakening.

"Obendrein gab es auf der Xbox 360 noch massig Bugs, Grafik- und Clipping-Fehler." - that's all he said. Roughly translated: On top (of the barren city) there were a lot of bugs und clipping errors.

[Saibh]

Addai67 wrote...

Er... I do have to point out that according to the article, the demo build didn't work. Considering that they are reporting major bugs as well as disappointment with the art style (and started out by praising characterization and saying that this is a BioWare strength), IMO the review is more than fair. I don't read a lot of gaming reviews, but have seen a few which would have stopped at the bug part and said "it sucks."

I know this is asking a lot, but can you translate the entire thing? Context is important.

[Chris Priestly]

CastorT wrote...


Prove us wrong.
You can talk the talk,
but can you walk the walk?

Yes, and when we release the game, you'll know.

Oh wait, were you trying to pull some sort of jedi mind trick on me to get more vidoe footage? The force is week in you.

[Addai]

Pseudocognition wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
 They confirm what you hear around the forums, that it's much more cinematic.  Which just makes me think- if I wanted to see a movie rather than play a game, I'd see a movie.

Cinematography is a storytelling tool. It doesn't mean "movie" and still won't in DA2. It basically means choosing angles and composing shots and manipulating the camera and setting up lighting to get the right mood out of a scene. You can have nice lighting, well composed shots and interactivity.

Off topic. I just cringe when people knock good camera work.

I know all this.  One of the things I noticed positively in the leaked gameplay footage is that the camera work seemed really good.  The review basically hits one of my early impressions of DA2, however, i.e. that it might look cool and get the cinematic thing, but not be any fun to play as a game, particularly a roleplaying game.  While I was thinking "good camera work" while watching Flemeth and Hawke interact, I was also thinking "not very immersive for roleplaying purposes." 

[Gtdef]

Love this thread. Hey guys, you made a game sterile and lifeless, how do you feel? Perhaps this is not for you, but who knows, you can have a future selling hot dogs and telling children stories about how you were employees in one of the top firms in gaming industry.

:devil:

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

Addai67 wrote...
I know all this.  One of the things I noticed positively in the leaked gameplay footage is that the camera work seemed really good.  The review basically hits one of my early impressions of DA2, however, i.e. that it might look cool and get the cinematic thing, but not be any fun to play as a game, particularly a roleplaying game.  While I was thinking "good camera work" while watching Flemeth and Hawke interact, I was also thinking "not very immersive for roleplaying purposes." 

Sorry it doesn't work for you, then. Personally I'd rather have the camera swing around Miranda's butt some more than have a conversation with everything including the camera glued in one place.

[Wulfram]

I must say, the more cinematic bits of DA:O conversations didn't really work for me.

[SpockLives]

I'm glad to hear that the cities will have plenty of life to them. Just please, Bioware, tell me there will be no more children forever running in a square pattern in the marketplace.

[Ulous]

Bioware have got a history of making 1st class RPG's, why do people all of sudden believe that this is no longer going to be the case?



Haters gonna hate.

[Addai]

Pseudocognition wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
I know all this.  One of the things I noticed positively in the leaked gameplay footage is that the camera work seemed really good.  The review basically hits one of my early impressions of DA2, however, i.e. that it might look cool and get the cinematic thing, but not be any fun to play as a game, particularly a roleplaying game.  While I was thinking "good camera work" while watching Flemeth and Hawke interact, I was also thinking "not very immersive for roleplaying purposes." 

Sorry it doesn't work for you, then. Personally I'd rather have the camera swing around Miranda's butt some more than have a conversation with everything including the camera glued in one place.

Are those our only two choices?  I'm taking issue mainly with putting the player at remove from the PC's point of view.  I would much rather have a closer first-person view rather than watching my PC do her thing along with watching the NPC do their thing.  The review says "it's very cinematic, but gameplay-wise..."

[In Exile]

Merci357 wrote...

"Obendrein gab es auf der Xbox 360 noch massig Bugs, Grafik- und Clipping-Fehler." - that's all he said. Roughly translated: On top (of the barren city) there were a lot of bugs und clipping errors.

So they had graphical glitches, but we don't know what the bugs are?

[Saibh]

Gtdef wrote...

Love this thread. Hey guys, you made a game sterile and lifeless, how do you feel? Perhaps this is not for you, but who knows, you can have a future selling hot dogs and telling children stories about how you were employees in one of the top firms in gaming industry.

:devil:

You'll have to explain whether you're being ironic or not to me.

[Addai]

Ulous wrote...

Bioware have got a history of making 1st class RPG's, why do people all of sudden believe that this is no longer going to be the case?

Haters gonna hate.

The only Bioware game I've played that I like is Origins.  Every development in the franchise since then has been a disappointment, and now they're saying they're taking it even further from Origins.  So yeah.

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

Addai67 wrote...
Are those our only two choices?  I'm taking issue mainly with putting the player at remove from the PC's point of view.  I would much rather have a closer first-person view rather than watching my PC do her thing along with watching the NPC do their thing.  The review says "it's very cinematic, but gameplay-wise..."

So, Fallout 3/Oblivion style? I'm not objective enough to debate the merits of one over the other. I don't put myself in the PC's shoes nor do I want to, so the way DA does it works for me.

But all of this is off topic. x_x