168 réponses à ce sujet

[DarthCaine]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Ir's probably worth noting that the level of Kirkwall he saw was at night. The streets aren't usually teeming after the sun goes down.

Wait, what? Are you saying time will pass like in The Witcher? Or is it just a level at night?

[Renessa]

imported_beer wrote...

Renessa wrote...

He never claims that the cinematic style comes at the expense of rpg gameplay.

What made me blink thrice was how upset he got about it.

If fobs such an experienced developer like Bioware us but measly 4 months before release with such unfinished material acting, then that borders on negligence. Either Bioware has the incompetent marketing department of the gaming industry or this product Dragon Age 2 still has a very long way to go. At the third option (which actually represents the shown later in the game) we would like to think not currently ...

Yes, he seems to take it a bit personal.

I think, he is actually quite a fan of Bioware. At least, it appears that way in the first  paragraph of the article. Very roughly translated he says about Isabela: "Again Bioware does sterling work regarding this character. Bioware has a knack for creating believable and loveable characters, that players immediately take to their hearts."

The quality of the demo or actually, the percieved lack of it just does not seem to fit in with his expectations about a Bioware product.

[AlexXIV]

Actually he takes into account that the game isn't ready yet. He says he finds it ridiculous of a company like  Bioware to give such an unfinished demo version 4 month from release (it is 5 actually I think, but he says 4). I am no game tester but I assume they do have enough experience to evaluate a demo 5 month from release, and they say in their opinion Bioware either has the worst marketing in gaming industry, or the game has still along way to go.

I mean honestly, it is their job to inform their readers. You can't just give them a blank sheet and say this and this isn't in because it is not ready and then expect them to comment on how wonderful it will be if everything is in. If Bioware hand out demo versions they gonna have to expect people to comment on what they see or don't see and not on what they could have seen if it was there.

[Seagloom]

It will be interesting to see how Kirkwall turns out in the final build. Ever since I read a comment somewhere that they were shooting for an Athkatla feel, I wondered how it will turn out. Athkatla and Baldur's Gate were among the few cities that felt like cities in any RPG I played. There were people all over the place and quests came out of the woodwork. Since then, no city in a BioWare game has felt quite as lively. The closest was the Imperial City in Jade Empire with all those nameless NPCs walking around. It looked busy, but the lack of areas made it feel small. That said, anything improving on Denerim is a big step in my opinion.

[AlexXIV]

Seagloom wrote...

It will be interesting to see how Kirkwall turns out in the final build. Ever since I read a comment somewhere that they were shooting for an Athkatla feel, I wondered how it will turn out. Athkatla and Baldur's Gate were among the few cities that felt like cities in any RPG I played. There were people all over the place and quests came out of the woodwork. Since then, no city in a BioWare game has felt quite as lively. The closest was the Imperial City in Jade Empire with all those nameless NPCs walking around. It looked busy, but the lack of areas made it feel small. That said, anything improving on Denerim is a big step in my opinion.

I also appreciate if cities are alive. Doesn't need to have alot of chat options or quests,.but just people. Some standing and chatting, some shouting (shopkeepers), some running (children for example), some just walking around. And to have this background ambient of a busy city.

[ErichHartmann]

My dream city in a RPG is Assassin's Creed and my concern for Kirkwall is a city divided up into tiny sections like Denerim. They really need to open up cities and add more atmosphere.

[Brockololly]

Pseudocognition wrote...
It basically means choosing angles and composing shots and manipulating the camera and setting up lighting to get the right mood out of a scene. You can have nice lighting, well composed shots and interactivity.

Soooo, what mood is this trying to evoke?

bl00dsh0t wrote...

Take it from someone who speaks german: They do at the end mention that it is a demo, but they are worried that if bioware has something this buggy and incomplete to show off 4 months before release then things are not boding well. They do state the the  fights were good, and that they liked the gamescom demo, but that this  prerelase version they played was ridden with bugs and graphical hickups to an extent that they would not expect of a section of a bioware game  shown to the public 4 months before release.

Thanks for the over view. Thats what I don't get either is that if the demo is buggy and looking incomplete, they want to show that off? Seeing how quickly the tunraround is on DA2, this has me worried the QA will suffer and we'll end up with another Awakening.

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Ir's probably worth noting that the  level of Kirkwall he saw was at night. The streets aren't usually teeming after the sun goes down.

No vampires like BG2?

Seagloom wrote...
Athkatla and Baldur's Gate were among the few cities  that felt like cities in any RPG I played. There were people all over  the place and quests came out of the woodwork. Since then, no city in a BioWare game has felt quite as lively.

Totally agree- I think alot of it was the sound design too, being able to hear tons of things that made a place like Athkatla feel alive.

Modifié par Brockololly, 05 novembre 2010 - 08:10 .

[In Exile]

Brockololly wrote...


Soooo, what mood is this trying to evoke?

It rhymes with election.

[Fishy]

bl00dsh0t wrote...

Take it from someone who speaks german: They do at the end mention that it is a demo, but they are worried that if bioware has something this buggy and incomplete to show off 4 months before release then things are not boding well. They do state the the fights were good, and that they liked the gamescom demo, but that this prerelase version they played was ridden with bugs and graphical hickups to an extent that they would not expect of a section of a bioware game shown to the public 4 months before release.

On the positive side of things they did mention that they really liked Isabella, that she is tune with the usual believable characters of bioware games, that the conversations and cutscenes were great and cinematic flair is definetely working on the previewer.

That being said I view PC Games as one of the better pc gaming magazines out there, they do not pull their punches when they see something they don't like. A preview from another mag might be overly positive I guess. We should keep in mind this was at an EA showcase, they probably didnt get to play for hours so they might have been unlucky and gotten a lot more bugs due to chance... Ahh well make of it what you will

Well i don't know how much per week bioware work on the game but let's assume 8 hours per day . 40 hours per week .. 100 working on the project 4 month .. that 64000 hours.

[Eternal Phoenix]

In Exile wrote...

Brockololly wrote...


Soooo, what mood is this trying to evoke?

It rhymes with election.

Investigate...

[Jacody]

In Exile wrote...

Brockololly wrote...


Soooo, what mood is this trying to evoke?

It rhymes with election.

Ejection?

[Ryzaki]

In Exile wrote...

Brockololly wrote...


Soooo, what mood is this trying to evoke?

It rhymes with election.

The look on Shep's face looks more repulsed than anything though.

[slimgrin]

Ryzaki wrote...

The look on Shep's face looks more repulsed than anything though.

I would say its more like iron will.

[Selene Moonsong]

Get it back on topic or get it locked...

[AtreiyaN7]

Wulfram wrote...

Well, you can only review what you're shown.

And if someone considers themselves to be a serious journalist, then what they do is get all their facts straight. What a real journalist doesn't do is print misleading information. If, in fact, the author of the article WAS informed that they have not yet put in all the ambient NPCs, etc. then his failure to mention this really important fact doesn't reflect well upon him. 

This is just a concept that's so...basic...that it has always stuck with me from my journalism classes. Of course, if no one told the author, then it's not exactly his fault (although you'd think he'd have the sense to ask why the city was so empty).

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 05 novembre 2010 - 10:36 .

[JrayM16]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Well, you can only review what you're shown.

And if someone considers themselves to be a serious journalist, then what they do is get all their facts straight. What a real journalist doesn't do is print misleading information. If, in fact, the author of the article WAS informed that they have not yet put in all the ambient NPCs, etc. then his failure to mention this really important fact doesn't reflect well upon him. 

This is just a concept that's so...basic...that it has always stuck with me from my journalism classes. Of course, if no one told the author, then it's not exactly his fault (although you'd think he'd have the sense to ask why the city was so empty).

Wulfram makes a mistake that many make, using 'review' and 'preview' interchangeably.  WHen you preview something, it is with full awareness that it is not done.  It is fair, for instance, to call out generally bad mechanics or gameplay in previews.  It is not fair to call out things like graphics, or things that could be easily rectified by launch. 

I'm not going to say anything crazy like the guy who wrote this preview is really awful, just that he needs to be more mindful of certain conditions.

But Europe's gaming press is widely regarded as being extremely shoddy, with only a few exceptions, so this is not at all unprecedented.

[Wulfram]

His point was that he felt Bioware should have had something better to show 4 months from release. That seems a fair one.

[Querne]

PC Games is one of the two most established German gaming magazines, so it´s surely no surprise for them witch parts of a game are usually added at last.
They obviously think, that with only four months left there should be much more content. They never compare it to a finished game, but to other games in a similar state before release.

Modifié par Querne, 05 novembre 2010 - 10:44 .

[slimgrin]

DarthCaine wrote...

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Ir's probably worth noting that the level of Kirkwall he saw was at night. The streets aren't usually teeming after the sun goes down.

Wait, what? Are you saying time will pass like in The Witcher? Or is it just a level at night?

I'm sure it won't. There's no day/night cycle.

But it does proceed in chapters, which is very much like The Witcher.

[AtreiyaN7]

JrayM16 wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Well, you can only review what you're shown.

And if someone considers themselves to be a serious journalist, then what they do is get all their facts straight. What a real journalist doesn't do is print misleading information. If, in fact, the author of the article WAS informed that they have not yet put in all the ambient NPCs, etc. then his failure to mention this really important fact doesn't reflect well upon him. 

This is just a concept that's so...basic...that it has always stuck with me from my journalism classes. Of course, if no one told the author, then it's not exactly his fault (although you'd think he'd have the sense to ask why the city was so empty).

Wulfram makes a mistake that many make, using 'review' and 'preview' interchangeably.  WHen you preview something, it is with full awareness that it is not done.  It is fair, for instance, to call out generally bad mechanics or gameplay in previews.  It is not fair to call out things like graphics, or things that could be easily rectified by launch. 

I'm not going to say anything crazy like the guy who wrote this preview is really awful, just that he needs to be more mindful of certain conditions.

But Europe's gaming press is widely regarded as being extremely shoddy, with only a few exceptions, so this is not at all unprecedented.

I may be a bit of stickler about this, but for me the whole preview/review issue is larely irrelevant. The author was ostensibly working in a journalistic capacity, and that's all that matters as far as I'm concerned when it comes to previews or reviews. However, if the author of an article has facts in hand, then I think it's incumbent upon that person to report said facts accurately.

I get a bit peevish when I see bad reporting as a general rule. I'm still agog over that idiotic story flying around about how the president's trip to Asia is costing $200 million per day (completely laughable - although it's a good example of bad journalism). Anyhow, since we're getting off-topic, everyone else can go back to arguing whatever it is that they were arguing over.

[Cra5y Pineapple]

Mass Effect 1 had two of these (Noveria and Feros), be thankful there's only one in this.

[Phnx]

I'm German and I just read the article. The author is asking himself whether this demo represents the final game. He also states that it was a quite "bad" (marketing) demo considering the lifeless city.

[Mike Laidlaw]

Phnx wrote...

I'm German and I just read the article.

Did he happen to mention whether he realized it was night? It's possible that didn't come up, and he was expecting teeming crowds because it was day. Our nights are reasonably bright (so you can play easily in them).

[Addai]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Phnx wrote...

I'm German and I just read the article.

Did he happen to mention whether he realized it was night? It's possible that didn't come up, and he was expecting teeming crowds because it was day. Our nights are reasonably bright (so you can play easily in them).

No mention of that, though they used the terms "sterile" and "clinical" which to me speak to more than just NPCs on the street.  They contrast it to a dirtier, livelier Origins environment.  Not sure I agree there, especially after seeing The Witcher, where I was running Geralt around the piles of horse crap on the street and when he was in the sewers I could practically smell the dreck.

Anyway... interesting that they said they had largely laid aside their gameplay fears after Gamescom but this demo renewed them.