168 réponses à ce sujet

[Jarek_Cousland]

Sounds to me like the guy has a chip on his shoulder.



"Hey lets critique the test demo of a game not coming out for 5 months! The cities empty and the stories lame and short. I'm glad I got this game for free."





Get over yourself, you write reviews for a magazine. You're not god.

[StingingVelvet]

I am worried about several things with DA2... the art style, the streamlining of RPG factors, the lack of good PC controls and UI.



I am not worried about the level design or world at all though, not from Bioware. I completely believe that this was a misleading article based on a misleading preview build, or something similar. For all the dumbing-down Bioware have been doing lately they have never fell short on creating lovely looking worlds.

[Addai]

Jarek_Cousland wrote...

Sounds to me like the guy has a chip on his shoulder.

"Hey lets critique the test demo of a game not coming out for 5 months! The cities empty and the stories lame and short. I'm glad I got this game for free."


Get over yourself, you write reviews for a magazine. You're not god.

Totally not the tone of the review.  Nor even, the substance.

[Jarek_Cousland]

that may be, but reviewing a demo in such a way makes him no better than the whiners here on the forum that find the smallest things to complain about.





Redundant.

[Seagloom]

He is sharing his thoughts on a demo he played. Supporter or detractor, most people frequenting this forum cannot claim that much. Furthermore, writing his opinions on games is his job. He does not need to be a god to do what he was hired to do. If you are serious about this critique, perhaps you should email him your thoughts or post them underneath the article if that is an option. Otherwise how is what you are saying here any better than what you accuse him of?

[Brockololly]

Addai67 wrote...
No mention of that, though they used the terms "sterile" and "clinical" which to me speak to more than just NPCs on the street.  They contrast it to a dirtier, livelier Origins environment.  Not sure I agree there, especially after seeing The Witcher, where I was running Geralt around the piles of horse crap on the street and when he was in the sewers I could practically smell the dreck.

Anyway... interesting that they said they had largely laid aside their gameplay fears after Gamescom but this demo renewed them.

Yeah, the impression I've gotten thus far, especially from the early talk on the art direction, is that they were trying to make the world more austere and less cluttered so as to not detract from the characters. But, combined with the new art style and Kirkwall's seeming infatuation with Brutalist architecture, I don't know how that will mesh together.

The impressions of the author that the world seemed "clinical and "sterile" is precisely the sort of cold and detatched feeling I get anyway when seeing Brutalist architecture, so if the world on top of that seems less lived in and lacking in the little knick knacks and details that breathed life in to Origins, The Witcher or BG2, it makes it even harder to give a damn about that world.

[Jarek_Cousland]

Seagloom wrote...

He is sharing his thoughts on a demo he played. Supporter or detractor, most people frequenting this forum cannot claim that much. Furthermore, writing his opinions on games is his job. He does not need to be a god to do what he was hired to do. If you are serious about this critique, perhaps you should email him your thoughts or post them underneath the article if that is an option. Otherwise how is what you are saying here any better than what you accuse him of?

I find his assumptions on these things pointless, like I said in my mock sentence. (which was filled with enough sarcasm to burn the Ozone) saying the cities are "empty and sterile" is a big thing for a game thats nearly a half a year away, such a huge accusation from a fan is one thing. But from a professional who no doubt has an influence on peoples opinion (cause you know, not everybody has the gift of choosing things for themselves) is rather..childish and unprofessional.


But whatever, I'm not too worried about what a german magazine has to say about a game, seeing as well...I'm not German.

[Bruddajakka]

So wait your saying is that there's no night life in the cities? That's rather disappointing.

[Rattleface]

Weather never changed in DA:O, so it's not like it's a surprise.

[upsettingshorts]

Bruddajakka wrote...

So wait your saying is that there's no night life in the cities? That's rather disappointing.

It was true in say, ancient Rome.  Going out at night was a good invitation to get stabbed or kidnapped.  Cities before civil service like say, police, were not safe places to be when the sun went down.

[ErichHartmann]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Bruddajakka wrote...

So wait your saying is that there's no night life in the cities? That's rather disappointing.

It was true in say, ancient Rome.  Going out at night was a good invitation to get stabbed or kidnapped.  Cities before civil service like say, police, were not safe places to be when the sun went down.

Accept Hawke is a badass who always carries weapons.  Not an issue.

[upsettingshorts]

ErichHartmann wrote...
Except Hawke is a badass who always carries weapons.  Not an issue.

We aren't talking about Hawke or his party.  We're talking about civilians and whether or not they'd be hanging out on the street at night.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 06 novembre 2010 - 02:30 .

[Bruddajakka]

And it is kinda disappointing we don't get to see the seedier aspects of town life come out.

[Maria Caliban]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Bruddajakka wrote...

So wait your saying is that there's no night life in the cities? That's rather disappointing.

It was true in say, ancient Rome.  Going out at night was a good invitation to get stabbed or kidnapped.  Cities before civil service like say, police, were not safe places to be when the sun went down.

Which didn't keep people from going out.

[upsettingshorts]

Maria Caliban wrote...
Which didn't keep people from going out.

It did keep them from idly milling about in the street to give it some sense of being populated like the reviewer is complaining about.  The streets or Rome were as crowded during the day as they were empty at night.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 06 novembre 2010 - 02:35 .

[AlexXIV]

Well streets are emptier at night than in daylight, that's so far correct. You don't need to go back to ancient rome, just go out of the house and count people

Anyway, night should have a different sort of atmosphere/ambient than day. Shadows, darkness etc. I am not sure if it is a good idea to make the nights bright (or almost) as day. It should be dark, really dark with the exception of some lamplights every now and then.

[Addai]

Jarek_Cousland wrote...

that may be, but reviewing a demo in such a way makes him no better than the whiners here on the forum that find the smallest things to complain about.


Redundant.

What?  First of all, can you actually read the German?  If not, I encourage you to read the thread where a number of us have paraphrased and translated the review.  Which was actually a pretty well written and fair one, from a reviewer who not only played DA2 at this demo but at a previous one as well and is saying the quality was worse here.

But ok.  "Whiners" shouldn't write reviews, since people only want to have sunshine blown at them even if it's not true?  That's your view?

Modifié par Addai67, 06 novembre 2010 - 04:27 .

[slimgrin]

StingingVelvet wrote...

I am worried about several things with DA2... the art style, the streamlining of RPG factors, the lack of good PC controls and UI.

I am not worried about the level design or world at all though, not from Bioware. I completely believe that this was a misleading article based on a misleading preview build, or something similar. For all the dumbing-down Bioware have been doing lately they have never fell short on creating lovely looking worlds.

Lovely looking, yes. Interactive or immersive, no.

For my money, ME1 has the best level design out of any Bioware game I have played.

[Addai]

AlexXIV wrote...

Well streets are emptier at night than in daylight, that's so far correct. You don't need to go back to ancient rome, just go out of the house and count people

Anyway, night should have a different sort of atmosphere/ambient than day. Shadows, darkness etc. I am not sure if it is a good idea to make the nights bright (or almost) as day. It should be dark, really dark with the exception of some lamplights every now and then.

Nights should have different atmosphere, but the review is criticizing lack of atmosphere period.  Sterile, clinical, etc.  Picture...  rainy night in New York City.  There might not be a single soul on the street, but there's steam rising from a manhole cover.  Garbage is set out on the curb.  You hear more sounds than you would otherwise precisely because it's nighttime.  This is atmosphere, even without a single person visible.  The review is lamenting what they saw as lack of it.

Recognizing that it's not the final game, sure, but the reviewer is mainly worried at seeing such an unfinished and buggy version so close to game release.

Even if that proves unfounded, the new art direction has already advertised itself as austere and spare.  Which some people may really like while others, like this reviewer, would consider it a step down from Origins.

[upsettingshorts]

slimgrin wrote...
For my money, ME1 has the best level design out of any Bioware game I have played.

/blinks

Nope, I don't expect I'm gonna find any common ground here. 

[casedawgz]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Phnx wrote...

I'm German and I just read the article.

Did he happen to mention whether he realized it was night? It's possible that didn't come up, and he was expecting teeming crowds because it was day. Our nights are reasonably bright (so you can play easily in them).

THANK YOU! I'm sure I'm not the only one who has to wait until 6 A.M. all the time in Fallout 3 because its too freaking dark to maneuver at night.

[slimgrin]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

slimgrin wrote...
For my money, ME1 has the best level design out of any Bioware game I have played.

/blinks

Nope, I don't expect I'm gonna find any common ground here. 

You didn't like the hub worlds?

[upsettingshorts]

slimgrin wrote...
You didn't like the hub worlds?

I thought they were fine - visually, conceptually - right up until the point when the shooting started, with one exception:  I liked the skyway on Feros.

In any case, there were so many generic environments for sidequests that they've got to drop the overall level design score for ME1 way down.

[Lord_Darkmoon]

Ok, so now we know that the streets of the city will be filled with NPCs. This is good news!

But this raises another question: If there are fights in the streets, how will the NPCs react? Will they stand around and burn due to exploding fireballs and then simply walk on like in DAO or will they run away screaming, trying to hide?

[Brockololly]

Lord_Darkmoon wrote...

Ok, so now we know that the streets of the city will be filled with NPCs. This is good news!
But this raises another question: If there are fights in the streets, how will the NPCs react? Will they stand around and burn due to exploding fireballs and then simply walk on like in DAO or will they run away screaming, trying to hide?

I'll take a wild ME2 inspired guess: you won't be able to engage in combat unless its a designated "combat zone" type level, like ME2 where you couldn't even un holster your weapon unless the game let go of your hand and said "Ok, you can shoot now since we've got chest high walls for you to hide behind.":?

So yeah, we'll have dialogue zones and combat zones, thats my guess.

Modifié par Brockololly, 06 novembre 2010 - 06:51 .