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A more Muscular Female Sheppard


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#1
Skirlasvoud

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So maybe I am dipping into a personal fetish of mine, but after giving it some thought, it kinda makes sense too:
 
Shouldn't FemShep have more muscle mass?


Femsheps in armor look fine, I can agree. This is mine when put into armor  and she looks decent enough because the armor does a lot to keep up appearances.


However, when comparing more revealing clothes like this:
Image IPB


To this:
Image IPB


A few subtle differences occur to me when she's in her casual attire. Sheppard appears to need:

- Firmer muscles in the arm. Many have said this. They now look like twigs.

- Arms that hang slightly further from her torso. Women's arms who have more musculature on the torso, hang to the sides of their bodies more, because the shoulders and flanks are firmer and drive eachother apart. Femshep looks like she has her arms pasted directly to her slim torso.

- Tweak her shoulder and neck mass to have more definition and slightly more bulk and width. The current Femshep in regular attire has neither an hourglass shape, or a V shape. She has a ^ shape. Quite profound in her roughneck casual attire.

- Larger waistline. Only women who follow a diet can manage Shep's waistline. Women who work out get toned flanks, that diminish the hourshape figure somewhat.

- Femshep actually has a little bit of a belly when viewed from the side. Again, actual abs and muscles should straighten that out.

- Her neck shortened, because it draws too much attention right now to how lanky she is.



I'm a student of the biomedical sciences, so I've spend an hour doing what I'm good at and made a case for why I think she should look more muscular:


First, I'm going to withdraw from speculating about bioengineering, semi-robotic power suits, cybernetics, or how much Sheppard's gear weighs. We simply don't know enough about how those things work in the ME universe or if they apply to Sheppard. This is what I've found about ME armour and it doesn't say anything about armor assisted movement or how heavy gear is. With the lack of conclusive evidence to support 22st century combat aid and body support, my personal prefference would be to dismiss these when concidering Femshep's bodytype. As I've said before, this is a case towards putting more realism in the game and because there's so little evidence to the existence of assisted-movement, we're left with only the certainty that she uses nothing but her own body in the things she does.


What's left is a discussion how a real-world marine would look like. Its our closest comparison to what we should be looking for.

This here case study shows the body compositions of three bodytypes as a frame of Reference. Marathon (endurance) is skinny and lanky, Triathlon (mixed) looks quite normal and fit and Heptathlon (power) is muscular and sturdy. http://openwaterchic...ics-case-study/

Compare this with the in-game models.
images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100620082437/masseffect/images/thumb/0/06/Default_Casual_Roughneck.png/441px-Default_Casual_Roughneck.png


We can all immidiatly agree that Femshep does not have a Marathon type body form. Her current in-game form is more a Triathlon body type, while I'm arguing for a Heptathlon body type.
As a secondary point: we can least agree that MaleShep does look like a heptathlon athlete, not a triathlon type, but with no female equivalent in-game. This means there's relative physical inequity between gender bodytyping. If MaleShep and FemShep have the same gender un-biased backgrounds and training, then it would make sense that they have comparable bodytypes. This alone supports a Hepathlon body type for Femshep, or a less muscular body type for Maleshep.


Triathlon requires swimming, cycling and sprinting for long distances, which are mostly distance excersises.
Heptathlon requires Javalin throwing, pot shots, hurdles, jumps and running worth one kilometer. Heptathlons require quite a lot of "sprint and power" events.

So the question remaining is: Which of these looks most like a Female Marine's training regime?


This here is an article that shows minimal ftiness requirements of the female US marines.
http://usmilitary.ab...blfitfemale.htm A 2 mile run plus sit ups and pull ups.

And this here is an article that shows US Marine Corps reccommended body development excersises for women
http://www.chicagoma...maleworkout.pdf Lots of crunches and weights to shape fresh female recruits up, together with running excercises.


I would say that their training regime looks most like that of an heptathlon athlete. The short amount of heavy repititions, also seem to favour strength over endurance. They might run longer than a heptathlete, but the required strength excersises match quite closely. As was said before, ducking in and out of cover, is most important for a soldier. I suggest that the "sprint and power" techniques of the heptathlon matches this technique. 
Do note that this not limit Femshep's endurance capabilities. Hepathlon athletes can still run a Marathon or Triathlon, they're just less optimized at it.

One needs to ask himself: What does Sheppard specialize in? 
Is running more important to her than vaulting over crates, sprinting and shooting? If the answer is no, a hepathlon type body is more apropriate and the current body-typing should get buffed up.


Personally, I think that openwaterchicago.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/2008-decathlon_heptathlon.jpg can kick the current femshep's scrawney ass any day of the week. She's also more closely matched to Maleshep's physique, reducing current physical disparity between the genders. 

I'd fully support using someone like Gina Carano for her bodytype. She's an American Martial Artist and a hand-to-hand combat specialist.
http://i557.photobuc...GinaCarano2.jpg
 

Modifié par Skirlasvoud, 19 novembre 2010 - 11:56 .


#2
Loerwyn

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I think it stems from Mass Effect using a standard body shape for all females and one for all males - It's much more obvious in ME1 as the ME2 companions do have their own models and skeletons. I like the idea, but it won't really happen, sadly.

#3
AntiChri5

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How would we notice?

The only outfit that lets us see so much as her arms us the dress, desinged to make her look feminen.

#4
Collider

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Women aren't allowed to have muscles in video games. Everyone knows that.

Though it doesn't stop them from carrying huge swords and beating down Krogan.

#5
Daewan

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@OP: I support your desire, even while I acknowledge the unlikeliness of it. Also, I really like your Shepard.

I'd love to have sliders or something to customize various Shepards, just a little bit.

#6
SimonTheFrog

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I agree she should look like she can handle a cain. But i think femshep does that. If you put on the Kasumi-dress her shoulders look very muscular. Way too much already i think. 

My perfect femShep would look like Lena Headey in her role as Sarah Connor :blush:
 

#7
Fraevar

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Check out her upper body in the Kasumi dress. It looks properly proportioned to me. As for the other models I'd rather BioWare not mess with her any more. It was bad enough we had to put up with that awful walk animation in ME2. I just use the Cerberus Officer's Uniform for her casual outfit, means she can still be more than fit underneath ^^

#8
Skirlasvoud

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SimonTheFrog wrote...

I agree she should look like she can handle a cain. But i think femshep does that. If you put on the Kasumi-dress her shoulders look very muscular. Way too much already i think. 

 



You think? Hhhmm, I can see your point. Part of my post was about gauging other's opinions and I'll thank you for sharing. Image IPB


And other too are right in that her body is ussually covered up too much to really see her outlines.  

But still, I can't quite put my finger on it, but I think there's something missing... maybe its the art style or simply the type of clothing she wears.



Daewan wrote...

@OP: I support your desire, even while I acknowledge the unlikeliness of it. Also, I really like your Shepard.
I'd love to have sliders or something to customize various Shepards, just a little bit.


Oh, it's not mine Image IPB. I nicked it of that mass effect faces database. Check it out:
http://www.masseffec....php?faceID=682 

I've made a north-european, slightly more paragon variation on it too: 143.WGL.L1G.G1W.W9Q.G6R.GKB.419.LM5.HC2.7G5.114

But let's not digress.


I still think there's something missing on femshep. If there are muscles, I wouldn't mind it if Bioware did a better job of showing them. But likely, that's just my desire. Image IPB

Modifié par Skirlasvoud, 05 novembre 2010 - 03:51 .


#9
Collider

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More biceps.

#10
deleted

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Characters in action/adventure videogames and movies have to look attractive else sales are hurt badly. People want as much escapism as they can get. Unfortunately since the canon of beauty for females is currently a thin, delicate body, we're pretty much stuck with an unrealistic body shape for Femshep.

OP, seems like you're out of luck for your fetish. But wait and see, you might just get your dream warrior princess character some day... ;)

Modifié par deleted, 05 novembre 2010 - 04:44 .


#11
lovgreno

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deleted wrote...

Characters in action/adventure videogames and movies have to look attractive else sales are hurt badly. People want as much escapism as they can get. Unfortunately since the canon of beauty for females is currently a thin, delicate body, we're pretty much stuck with an unrealistic body shape for Femshep.

OP, seems like you're out of luck for your fetish. But wait and see, you might just get your dream warrior princess character some day... ;)

I would say that it is more a case of that the developers of games thinks that only the supermodel cliché sells.

But yeah, a tall, big and muscular FemShep: Oh yes please!

#12
Estelindis

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FemShep's arms look unhealthy to me - they're like sticks. But so are the FemWarden's in DA:O. Perhaps it's an animation/clipping issue - thinner arms may be easier for cutscene makers to work with. Then again, it seems like DA2 will have different body types depending on class (a warrior will be burlier than a mage), so we may already be about to see change for the better.

#13
deleted

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Another explanation could be that thanks to genetical tampering and better nutrition muscle density is greater in humans than it ever was, so even slender frames can lift large items.



Would be one way to "justify" it lore-wise.

#14
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deleted wrote...
Characters in action/adventure videogames and movies have to look attractive else sales are hurt badly. People want as much escapism as they can get. Unfortunately since the canon of beauty for females is currently a thin, delicate body, we're pretty much stuck with an unrealistic body shape for Femshep.

OP, seems like you're out of luck for your fetish. But wait and see, you might just get your dream warrior princess character some day... ;)


How is her body shape unrealistic? I'd really like this explained because as of now, I call BS on your statement.

Why?
1. The femshep model isn't overly thin.
2.When seen in the Kasumi mission, the body shape is actually quite fit.
3.Read this. www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1225912/Combat-Barbie-Soldier-new-Miss-England-Linford-Christies-niece-hands-crown-nightclub-brawl.html

Modifié par Bennyjammin79, 05 novembre 2010 - 04:57 .


#15
deleted

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That story about the soldier girl is truly impressive, but what Shepard does is just extreme and far more tiring than what normal marines are expected to do. I'd expect him/her to look like Schwarzenegger after running around with so much material all the time. In the liara dlc, not to give out spoilers, but at one time Shepard basically singlehandedly punches a creature 5 or 6 times bigger than himherself. Not being overly thin isn't enough. Even the male Shepard looks thin for what he's doing.

Modifié par deleted, 05 novembre 2010 - 05:17 .


#16
SimonTheFrog

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Those are the parts of the game that don't work for me at all. I mean i grinned when my femShep headbutted the Krogan and mingled in their macho society, but that's nothing i can take seriously, really.



For me, Shep isn't achieving what (s)he does by muscle but by dedication, charisma, making the right choices and by being savvy. Well, along with having a steady aim.

The muscle is only needed to support the charisma and sustaining a medium sized brawl.



Everytime Shep beats up somebody i feel like going back memory lane right to Cpt Kirk, which is not a good example for a realistic military career.



But i'm not complaining about the heroes having an athletic shape. With the military background and all everything else would be a bit weird.

#17
spacehamsterZH

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I actually happen to think this is a problem with Maleshep too. He has gimp arms. If you give him a thick neck and a big head, he looks like a freak out of armor. Obviously the solution to this would be a body shape slider. I'm guessing they don't want to do this because it would make designing the armor a nightmare.

#18
mattylee10

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You have to take into effect that Shepard like all alliance marines has undergone genetic therapy which I would assume increase her relative fitness/strength/reflexes without adding additional body mass. Also the Cerberus rebuild included a fair amount of cybernetics which further increase Shepard's capabilities without adding extra bulk.

#19
AdmiralCheez

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While it arms do look a bit funny, put FemShep in a dress and you will see just how butch she is. It's probably because ManShep and FemShep use the exact same animations, and a lot of it depends on what kind of face you slap on her, but despite the animation/modeling shortcomings I get the sense that Shep in any form is not meant to be messed with.



I don't like the noodly arms any more than you do, but it's a fairly minor issue.

#20
Guest_Tchones13_*

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More bulk, underneath the bulky armor? A steroid-taking bodybuilder fem Shepard, to go along with the already too-masculine animations? Eww. Sorry, I don't agree at all.

Nothing wrong with her being slim but still athletic, and most importantly, healthy. Just like every other woman in the game. I'd actually rather have Shepard be more like Miranda, Liara and Morinth, a little more feminine (both in looks and behavior). You don't have to lose your femininity to be a strong woman.

Modifié par Tchones13, 05 novembre 2010 - 06:51 .


#21
SimonTheFrog

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Hehe. Miranda, Liara and Morinth are difficult examples.



Miranda is too much tailored to please heterosexual stereotypes to be taken seriously as a commander. I'm not sure what would happen if they'd put her in actual combat clothing and make her less self-aware but more focused on the mission (all her dialogs are about her condition as being engineered... that wouldn't be helpful in a charismatic leading position). I guess that would go a long way. Still, a GI-Barbie would not feel right.



Liara is getting there in the DLC. Before that she's just a girl. By asari standard even literally. So, not a good role model for a commander. But yeah, during the DLC she's alright as a female kick-ass.



Morinth is basically your standard asari biotic commando. Talking about her charisma as female soldier or character, not her condition or attitude. I like her outfit much more than Samaras as it's more practical and realistic. Samaras outfit... *sigh* lets not go there...

So, yeah, the standard asari biotic commando is pretty cool for a strong woman. Especially because the biotic means power without looking like hulk. I mean even a volus can be a biotic God!!



In modern media, kick-ass girls or women are getting more and more freed from being nothing but a male phantasy. But ME isn't quite there yet.

#22
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SimonTheFrog wrote...

Hehe. Miranda, Liara and Morinth are difficult examples.

Miranda is too much tailored to please heterosexual stereotypes to be taken seriously as a commander. I'm not sure what would happen if they'd put her in actual combat clothing and make her less self-aware but more focused on the mission (all her dialogs are about her condition as being engineered... that wouldn't be helpful in a charismatic leading position). I guess that would go a long way. Still, a GI-Barbie would not feel right.

Liara is getting there in the DLC. Before that she's just a girl. By asari standard even literally. So, not a good role model for a commander. But yeah, during the DLC she's alright as a female kick-ass.

Morinth is basically your standard asari biotic commando. Talking about her charisma as female soldier or character, not her condition or attitude. I like her outfit much more than Samaras as it's more practical and realistic. Samaras outfit... *sigh* lets not go there...
So, yeah, the standard asari biotic commando is pretty cool for a strong woman. Especially because the biotic means power without looking like hulk. I mean even a volus can be a biotic God!!

In modern media, kick-ass girls or women are getting more and more freed from being nothing but a male phantasy. But ME isn't quite there yet.


Miranda/Liara/Morinth – I was not talking about their personalities. And by behavior, I meant animations (my bad): Shepard walks, talks, sits (and even dances) like a macho-man. You don’t need to look/act like a man to be a strong woman and to be taken seriously, even in a commanding role. You don't need to be Barbie, either.

Take Aria, for example. She’s badass. Still, she crosses her legs when she sits. And she doesn’t dress/style herself like a hybrid of like The Hulk and Robocop or whatever.

Modifié par Tchones13, 05 novembre 2010 - 07:51 .


#23
Hulluliini

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Your muscles are actually unlikely to grow as big as they could if you have to have endurance, stamina and strength. If you want as big muscles as possible, you train a certain way at the gym - but that doesn't mean your muscles can handle the life of a soldier. They're just maximally big, but smaller muscles may be equally strong!



So basically, huge muscles don't mean you're the strongest and toughest guy as a soldier. It simply means you know what to do at the gym and eat well. As for functional strength and endurance, those are usually gained through practice, and sometimes a very lean looking person can be incredibly strong. Appearance can deceive. Besides, close combat is a lot about technique, not just brute strength.



So considering femshep's physique, I actually think it's quite believable. Personally, from an aesthetic point of view, I would certainly like her to be more muscular - but as she is, I believe she's strong. Not so sure about fighting krogans... could any human really fight a krogan in close combat?

#24
Quething

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I agree with the OP, femShep needs to be burlier. The heavier armors are good, the casual wear... not so much.

That said, the Kasumi dress is actually fairly close to what I'd like to see - those really do look like the arms of a built, Cain-hauling badass (if maybe not quite a krogan-punching one). Of course, it doesn't help much, because it's a damn cocktail dress and I can't think of anything less professional to wear while commanding a warship (or at least nothing we're ever likely to get from BioWare). If we could get some more clean-cut, military-ish clothing that suggests that same body shape, that would be ideal.

Modifié par Quething, 06 novembre 2010 - 03:54 .


#25
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Quething wrote...

I agree with the OP, femShep needs to be burlier. The heavier armors are good, the casual wear... not so much.

That said, the Kasumi dress is actually fairly close to what I'd like to see - those really do look like the arms of a built, Cain-hauling badass (if maybe not quite a krogan-punching one). Of course, it doesn't help much, because it's a damn cocktail dress and I can't think of anything less professional to wear while commanding a warship (or at least nothing we're ever likely to get from BioWare). If we could get some more clean-cut, military-ish clothing that suggests that same body shape, that would be ideal.


No disrespect, it's your opinion, but I swear: I just do not get it, LOL.

May ME3's customization system be flexible enough then, body-sliders and all, to accomodate all kinds of taste. Image IPB

Modifié par Tchones13, 06 novembre 2010 - 06:40 .