804 réponses à ce sujet

[tuppence95]

TJPags wrote...

tuppence95 wrote...

I feel the same about Loghain, especially that he blames others for his actions.  I've said before that Jowan has more honor than Loghain does, because he takes responsibility for what he did.  But don't you think Loghain makes the game so much more interesting?

And I can see most of what you say about Alistair, but you can't really blame him for not taking the lead.  For me, that's a game mechanics issue.  He can't take the lead.  The player has to do that.

*edited out some of the quotes because this post was way too long.  

Yes, the leading thing is certainly game mechanics.  Yet that kind of starts things off badly, IMO.  Game mechanics says that the more experienced warden should take a back seat to me - yet I should make HIM king?

Bothers me - definitely bothers me.  Especiallly my Couslands.

Have you ever tried playing the game on the side of the ones you hate the most?  I did try that with Loghain, just because I wanted to see all the different sides of the game.  In the past, I couldn't stand his character, but sparing him and listening to him talk was really interesting.  It was a hard playthrough, because personally, I really like Alistair and it was tough siding against him.  I'm glad I did it, because I got to see a side of Loghain that helped me understand him a little bit more.  I'll never do it again though.  He dies for the rest of my characters.  

[Zjarcal]

ejoslin wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

FWIW, the absolute BEST time to get Alistair's hate speech is if you can get him to 100 hostile making him king.  OMG, I did that once, and there's one tiny little additional line -- the absolute meanest response in the game.

The one about the King of Ferelden? I think I saw it once (on youtube), something about how sad it was that the future King was acting this way.

I'm not sure if I'll be able to prevent my CE from getting to -100 before the Landsmeet. She's already at -43 and I haven't even started the treaty quests. But I guess it's worth a try.

It's a little worse than that.

Alistair: I guess I'll have to be satisfied with you actually helping to stop the Blight, won't I? If that's still your intention. I can't do it on my own. (mollified a little, still angry)
Warden: So says the king of Ferelden. Sad, really.

I have to admit, that line is so cutting, I laughed when I saw it.  It's truly awful.

Not sure if I'd call it the meanest response in the game, but it would definitely rank amongst the top 10! I think I'll try hitting -100 before the Landsmeet just to get it. Thanks!

[Addai]

ejoslin wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

[/i]It looks to me like Alistair as sole ruler relies on the warden hardened or not as Alistair deferred most of the time to his chancellor.

That's something he chooses to do, however, so whether he would or would not need a chancellor is a matter of opinion.  But I agree that it's in Alistair's character to have a partner, just as it's in Anora's to be independent.

Whether he chooses to rely on his chancellor I didn't think was up to debate, only that he does rely on him/her.

Edit: Of course, if the warden chooses not to be chancellor, Alistair chooses to rely on Eamon if solo king.

I think it's the wording that bothers me.  I'm not arguing that he always has a chancellor, basically a co-ruler.  What I take issue with is the implication that that is a bad thing.  Maybe you're not making that inference, just the wording makes it sound like the throne would collapse if there weren't a chancellor there.  Whereas I think Anora's idea that she can go it alone isn't a particularly sound one for a ruler.  Of course, if she has a Warden co-ruler or marries hardened Alistair, she might end up with a good cooperative reign as well.

Modifié par Addai67, 08 novembre 2010 - 02:08 .

[Axekix]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Axekix wrote...

He'd make a good court jester imo.

That's another possibility. especially in his holy incarnation as Moobistair.

I'd always assumed Moobistair was his final "evolution" after drunkistair, so sadly he'd be exiled then.  Maybe he could find work in Orlais?

[tuppence95]

Axekix wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...


A philosopher? I really don't see that
But a novel writer for sure. Something about arts and literature.

Too bad. Arcturus Cousland really wanted a good life for him, but eh, he crossed the line. 

A philosopher I could see. granted, he'd be no Socrates, Fakih, or Goethe, and definitely no where near Nietszche's ballpark. But I could see him as an unusual, eccentric philsopher who comes up with some pretty weird ideas and theories, if nothing else, than to stir the pot and make waves for amusement sake. Alistair does seem to get a rise out of attempts to provoke people, though it seldom goes in his favor in his current state. he does seem to have an innate love of trying to push peoples buttons. His attempts to bait Morrigan, his recollections of screaming like a lunatic just to get a reaction out of the Chantry staff, ect, all these make me believe that part of his innate person is mischievious and playful. Given his upbringing, this trait manifested itself, more often than not, in inappropriate situations.

He'd make a good court jester imo.

Will you make a picture of that?  Hey, seems like when I was still just lurking in the Alistair thread, I saw you talking about a picture that you were working on.  Whatever happened to that one?  Did I miss it?

[Zjarcal]

tuppence95 wrote...


Will you make a picture of that?  Hey, seems like when I was still just lurking in the Alistair thread, I saw you talking about a picture that you were working on.  Whatever happened to that one?  Did I miss it?

Hey that's true, I remember him asking for screenshots and all. Where's the funny picture Axe?

[metalcraze33]

The major problem I have with Alistair as king is he is just so trusting, If he didn't have someone looking out for him he would be prime assassin fodder.

[ejoslin]

Addai67 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

[/i]It looks to me like Alistair as sole ruler relies on the warden hardened or not as Alistair deferred most of the time to his chancellor.

That's something he chooses to do, however, so whether he would or would not need a chancellor is a matter of opinion.  But I agree that it's in Alistair's character to have a partner, just as it's in Anora's to be independent.

Whether he chooses to rely on his chancellor I didn't think was up to debate, only that he does rely on him/her.

Edit: Of course, if the warden chooses not to be chancellor, Alistair chooses to rely on Eamon if solo king.

I think it's the wording that bothers me.  I'm not arguing that he always has a chancellor, basically a co-ruler.  What I take issue with is the implication that that is a bad thing.  Maybe you're not making that inference, just the wording makes it sound like the throne would collapse if there weren't a chancellor there.  Whereas I think Anora's idea that she can go it alone isn't a particularly sound one for a ruler.  Of course, if she has a Warden co-ruler or marries hardened Alistair, she might end up with a good cooperative reign as well.

What is not a good thing is that Alistair IS deferring to his Chancellor on almost all issues, even hardened.  It's more apparent he's a puppet king if he's unchanged, but...  I don't know.  If the warden is chancellor, I don't see Alistair as being portrayed as the real ruler, even when hardened, as he's deferring to the Warden most of the time.

Edit: The only time you don't see a slide implying the warden is the leader is if Alistair and the Warden are married (if the warden is chancellor that is).  And only in a love match, really.

Modifié par ejoslin, 08 novembre 2010 - 02:12 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Axekix wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Axekix wrote...

He'd make a good court jester imo.

That's another possibility. especially in his holy incarnation as Moobistair.

I'd always assumed Moobistair was his final "evolution" after drunkistair, so sadly he'd be exiled then.  Maybe he could find work in Orlais?

Moobistair is his ultimate incarnation, his state of perfection and bliss, his Nirvana! Once he has become Moobistair, his evolution is complete, and the universe shall be as one, and we shall all hold hands and sing kumbaya as we bask in his awesomeness!

[Axekix]

tuppence95 wrote...


Will you make a picture of that?  Hey, seems like when I was still just lurking in the Alistair thread, I saw you talking about a picture that you were working on.  Whatever happened to that one?  Did I miss it?

Haha I wound up upgrading my PC and swapped hard drives before I finished it.  It's still on my external somewhere, but I haven't gone back to it yet.  I'm actually working on some new Morri fanart atm.

[tuppence95]

metalcraze33 wrote...

The major problem I have with Alistair as king is he is just so trusting, If he didn't have someone looking out for him he would be prime assassin fodder.

But doesn't that just make him more vulnerable?  Why do you hate him for trusting?  

[Axekix]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Moobistair is his ultimate incarnation, his state of perfection and bliss, his Nirvana! Once he has become Moobistair, his evolution is complete, and the universe shall be as one, and we shall all hold hands and sing kumbaya as we bask in his awesomeness!

You speak the truth.  It's pretty hard to top man boobs.

[tuppence95]

Axekix wrote...

tuppence95 wrote...


Will you make a picture of that?  Hey, seems like when I was still just lurking in the Alistair thread, I saw you talking about a picture that you were working on.  Whatever happened to that one?  Did I miss it?

Haha I wound up upgrading my PC and swapped hard drives before I finished it.  It's still on my external somewhere, but I haven't gone back to it yet.  I'm actually working on some new Morri fanart atm.

I saw some of your Morri art.  Beautiful!  But I still want to see the horrifying Alistair art!  

[metalcraze33]

Did i say I hated him for trusting? I believe I said that him being so trusting he may trust the wrong people and end up alicorpse lol. Royal politics are probaly pretty brutal.

[TJPags]

tuppence95 wrote...

metalcraze33 wrote...

The major problem I have with Alistair as king is he is just so trusting, If he didn't have someone looking out for him he would be prime assassin fodder.

But doesn't that just make him more vulnerable?  Why do you hate him for trusting?  

Not good traits in a King, though.

[Axekix]

tuppence95 wrote...

I saw some of your Morri art.  Beautiful!  But I still want to see the horrifying Alistair art!  

Be careful what you wish for.

[Addai]

ejoslin wrote...

What is not a good thing is that Alistair IS deferring to his Chancellor on almost all issues, even hardened.  It's more apparent he's a puppet king if he's unchanged, but...  I don't know.  If the warden is chancellor, I don't see Alistair as being portrayed as the real ruler, even when hardened, as he's deferring to the Warden most of the time.

Edit: The only time you don't see a slide implying the warden is the leader is if Alistair and the Warden are married (if the warden is chancellor that is).  And only in a love match, really.

I would agree it's not a good thing if the epilogue indicated the kingdom fell into ruin.  It doesn't.  It does say that both Anora and Alistair do better if they have a co-ruler.  To me that is the principle at work that there is wisdom in cooperative reign.  Alistair's tendency to look to someone else could be a weakness, but so could Anora's belief that she doesn't need anyone else.

[Merilsell]

Angel-stair:

[Skyl4rk]

metalcraze33 wrote...

Skyl4rk wrote...

metalcraze33 wrote...

having an urge to start a morrigan debate just to see how it goes

Why? Has the whole Alistair "hate" discussion become too intellectual for your liking? Or are there too many punctuations to process?

Wow that is kind of a mean thing to say we have been debating this for a while
Why are you being so immature?

I've looked through this thread and personally, I haven't seen anything you've contributed in the discussion holding any value to the topic.  And when people are finally starting to hold engaging debates dedicated to the thread title, you go off and suggest to start another that, not only is completely off topic, but gives a tone that you're just here to kick sh!t around.  So if you think that my post is immature, I suggest you take a look at all of the ones you've posted in this thread.

[tuppence95]

metalcraze33 wrote...

Did i say I hated him for trusting? I believe I said that him being so trusting he may trust the wrong people and end up alicorpse lol. Royal politics are probaly pretty brutal.

You titled this thread "Hating Alistair" and you said that  his trusting people is the major problem you have with him.  So why do you hate him?  I've been reading your posts since you started, and I haven't seen a reason that hasn't been corrected by others here besides the fact that he has brown hair and he doesn't have smooth skin.

I'm not trying to be mean by asking you this.  I'm still trying to understand what specifically makes you "hate" him.

[metalcraze33]

omg my EYES!!! arrrGGGH

[tuppence95]

Merilsell wrote...

Angel-stair:

  

[metalcraze33]

Well I am not going to go back and explain 18 pages of discussion I think you just want to argue

ugh fan girls

[TJPags]

@Merilsell  . .   As if I needed another reason to hate him . . . .

That was sooooooo wrong . . . .

[tuppence95]

metalcraze33 wrote...

Well I am not going to go back and explain 18 pages of discussion I think you just want to argue
ugh fan girls

I did just go back and read 18 pages of discussion.  As I said, I haven't seen any reason that you've given that others have not corrected you on ... besides the brown hair/skin thing.  

I said I was not trying to be mean, I'm just trying to find out why you hate.  Calling us fan girls, when we are trying to discuss the issue isn't helping things any.  It's just name-calling, and not constructive.