804 réponses à ce sujet

[Yankee23]

Tuppence, Skadi just took care of that, lol.

[Fangirl17]

*looks at page 23* WHAT THE %*&#!? *cries and runs away* DX

[tuppence95]

Yankee23 wrote...

Tuppence, Skadi just took care of that, lol.

Yay!  

[EccentricSage]

Addai67 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

What is not a good thing is that Alistair IS deferring to his Chancellor on almost all issues, even hardened.  It's more apparent he's a puppet king if he's unchanged, but...  I don't know.  If the warden is chancellor, I don't see Alistair as being portrayed as the real ruler, even when hardened, as he's deferring to the Warden most of the time.

Edit: The only time you don't see a slide implying the warden is the leader is if Alistair and the Warden are married (if the warden is chancellor that is).  And only in a love match, really.

I would agree it's not a good thing if the epilogue indicated the kingdom fell into ruin.  It doesn't.  It does say that both Anora and Alistair do better if they have a co-ruler.  To me that is the principle at work that there is wisdom in cooperative reign.  Alistair's tendency to look to someone else could be a weakness, but so could Anora's belief that she doesn't need anyone else.

Ok, you're going into directions that I've never said nor implied.  It's like, I responded to someone saying that Alistair seemed to rule on his own ok, and I pointed out that he relies on either his warden chancellor or Eamon.  And once I posted the slides that showed that in fact, as sole ruler, he DOES defer to (relies on is a nicer way of saying this) the warden chancellor, that this comes out.

So I'm done with this particular conversation.  I said what I meant, I backed it up, and I'm not going to argue points that I never made.

Whether Alistair being this malleable is a good or bad thing remains to be seen.  I think, as the warden ends up disappearing, it probably is not, but that is something that will come to light in a future game.  Most likely.

Hence why I said, somewhere in our exchange, that you might not actually have been implying that but that is what it sounded like.  So, ok.  Don't argue points you never made.

* narator voice* "She's so good at arguing points, she argues points she never made.  She is... the most interesting woman in the world..."

[Axekix]

Yankee23 wrote...

Tuppence, Skadi just took care of that, lol.

Yeah, Skadi's even more evil than me.  It's even in her username.

[Jon Jern_]

I like how the only person that actually hates Alistair is the OP.

[tuppence95]

Jon Jern wrote...

I like how the only person that actually hates Alistair is the OP.

Nah, there's been a couple other Alistair haters here too.

[mellifera]

*runs in*



LOL AXE YOU'VE OUTDONE YOURSELF.



*runs out*

[metalcraze33]

Jon Jern wrote...

I like how the only person that actually hates Alistair is the OP.

Oh really? there have been a few on here who don't like him and I don't mind fans of his

[Jon Jern_]

Ah, I only skimmed through and I saw only you hating.

[TJPags]

Jon Jern wrote...

I like how the only person that actually hates Alistair is the OP.

Ahem *cough*cough*cough*

I am strong in the Ali-hate.

[Merilsell]

Lulz xD This site has no picture yet...time to change that quickly:



BRAAAAAAAIIIIIIIINS.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

I'd totally let Zombiestair eat my brains...or whatever else he has a craving for.

[TJPags]

See, now THAT'S an Alistair pic I can live with.

Figures he'd come back to life if I killed him, too.

Modifié par TJPags, 08 novembre 2010 - 04:29 .

[metalcraze33]

lol yet another ewwww

[Addai]

phaonica wrote...

I don't see it like that. There is not one moment where Alistair will even consider that they really don't know what happened at Ostagar. Loghain is never anything but completely guilty in his mind and he will never so much as consider an argument to the contrary. His anger has nothing to do with the truth, only with his feelings.

Because as he sees it, there's nothing else to know.  Cailan and the Wardens died and Loghain walks away completely unscathed, didn't even join the battle.  From his perspective, there's no excuse for it.  Didn't engage the enemy and have to fall back, didn't barely pull through, he never clashed swords with a single darkspawn.

Now, i will agree with you that he and the Warden are also being manipulated by Flemeth at that point.  She heavily suggests that Loghain betrayed them, that it was because he wants the throne, and that Alistair should take vengeance.

[Addai]

EccentricSage wrote...

I myself am also irked that he doesn't have any sence of self awareness.  I think he must actually be the youngest companion.  Often people with issues don't start to understand how others view them, or start to deal with their issues, untill they've been confronted with the real world for awhile.  Alistair has never been independant.  He always had someone looking after him and calling the shots, and shaping who he is.  But it sure would be nice if he'd take a little initiative in that department.  One of my favorite moments in the game is Zevran putting him in his place in reguards to the subject of religion.  It was about damn time someone point out some of his hypocracy.

Someone pointed out to me earlier in the thread that my reason for saying he's self centered was ilogical, and they were right... I aprouched the subject wrong.  Alistair is self centered in that he wants others to care about what he's fealing and his loss, but he won't even REMEMBER what a human Noble Warden told him about her family being massacred pretty much right in front of her.  (or him.  You know what I mean)  And he ridicules Morrigan and Zevran imediately, and starts pestering them once they join the party.  What a douchebag!  Morrigan brings us the documents we needed, and Flemeth saves our lives, and he never shows any gratitude for that.  Are they untrustworthy?  Of course.  As are most sentiant beings.  That whole pesky matter of not having control over what is not yours, the will of others.  And Zevran... he told us he was a slave, and you didn't want to kill him ether Alistair.  No need to rub salt in his wounds after we win against him, just to prove how macho you think you are. 

Zevran's patience with companions by contrast is one of the reasons I like him.  He's rarely malitious, just pokes and prods to try to learn more about them, or to deflect when they are imposing uppon him.  Such grace through dirty words.  lol  I love that him and Al even eventually have some friendly banter eventually, if you get the mod that fixes the bugs in dialogue.  I'm pretty sure it's ejoslin's mod.

You know, it's fine that people don't like a character, but it irks me when people put that in the context of "but that NPC over there is so great".  All of the characters were written to have strengths and weaknesses.  These two characters in particular were both written by David Gaider.  I'm not going to go into the ways that Zevran is a limited character, how his interactions can rub certain PCs the wrong way and come off as crass and insensitive, but they're there.  It's partly a function of game limitation and partly because each NPC has their own set of negatives and positives.  Obviously Alistair rubs you the wrong way.  But hopefully you realize that you have a pretty extreme negative view of him and not everyone views the character the same way.

[metalcraze33]

Well Zevran is my favorite but if some people don't like him i don't care, unless it's for a stupid reason like his sexuality.

[TJPags]

Addai67 wrote...

You know, it's fine that people don't like a character, but it irks me when people put that in the context of "but that NPC over there is so great".  All of the characters were written to have strengths and weaknesses.  These two characters in particular were both written by David Gaider.  I'm not going to go into the ways that Zevran is a limited character, how his interactions can rub certain PCs the wrong way and come off as crass and insensitive, but they're there.  It's partly a function of game limitation and partly because each NPC has their own set of negatives and positives.  Obviously Alistair rubs you the wrong way.  But hopefully you realize that you have a pretty extreme negative view of him and not everyone views the character the same way.

Addai, you're right that it's not fair to compare one character to another.  But when discussing something subjective, such as, does someone like Alistair or not, it's sometimes hard to avoid comparisons.  It happens all the time - this person is taller than that one, this one is smarter, etc.

It's valid to use one character as an example when discussing another.  Perhaps somewhat unfair, but how else can we differentiate anything?  It's nice to want to use a mythical "person X", but that rarely works in practice.

Does Zevran have flaws?  Absolutely he does.  He hits on my PC's virtually first conversation every time, and I never do anything to show any interest in him.  Bothered me at first, probably annoys a lot of people.  But the fact that he has flaws in certain areas doesn't change that, in discussing childhood and it's affects on later personality, he sure seems to have had it worse than Alistair, but sure seems much more self-assured.

[tuppence95]

TJPags wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

You know, it's fine that people don't like a character, but it irks me when people put that in the context of "but that NPC over there is so great".  All of the characters were written to have strengths and weaknesses.  These two characters in particular were both written by David Gaider.  I'm not going to go into the ways that Zevran is a limited character, how his interactions can rub certain PCs the wrong way and come off as crass and insensitive, but they're there.  It's partly a function of game limitation and partly because each NPC has their own set of negatives and positives.  Obviously Alistair rubs you the wrong way.  But hopefully you realize that you have a pretty extreme negative view of him and not everyone views the character the same way.

Addai, you're right that it's not fair to compare one character to another.  But when discussing something subjective, such as, does someone like Alistair or not, it's sometimes hard to avoid comparisons.  It happens all the time - this person is taller than that one, this one is smarter, etc.

It's valid to use one character as an example when discussing another.  Perhaps somewhat unfair, but how else can we differentiate anything?  It's nice to want to use a mythical "person X", but that rarely works in practice.

Does Zevran have flaws?  Absolutely he does.  He hits on my PC's virtually first conversation every time, and I never do anything to show any interest in him.  Bothered me at first, probably annoys a lot of people.  But the fact that he has flaws in certain areas doesn't change that, in discussing childhood and it's affects on later personality, he sure seems to have had it worse than Alistair, but sure seems much more self-assured.

I agree that Zevran had a much tougher life than Alistair did.  But he was hardened very early, probably in childhood.  Alistair's self-confidence was, I believe, deliberately knocked out of him through his youth, so that he would never be a threat to the throne.  No hardening, no self-esteem, kept in an extremely sheltered environment.  There's no way he'd be able to deal with things as efficiently as Zevran can.

[Merilsell]

BTW I love the new thread-title, it certainly is catchy xD But why not: "Alistair fangirls...more corrupted than the taint" ?

[metalcraze33]

hey that is good but i wanted to warn of eye scorching images lol

Modifié par metalcraze33, 08 novembre 2010 - 04:58 .

[Yankee23]

Merilsell wrote...

BTW I love the new thread-title, it certainly is catchy xD But why not: "Alistair fangirls...more corrupted than the taint" ?

I like it!

[Addai]

TJPags wrote...

Addai, you're right that it's not fair to compare one character to another.  But when discussing something subjective, such as, does someone like Alistair or not, it's sometimes hard to avoid comparisons.  It happens all the time - this person is taller than that one, this one is smarter, etc.

Sure, comparison is fine, but a bit of recognition that all the characters are flawed goes a long way.  It's also very subjective.  I don't bother going into the depths of my Leliana hatred on the boards because I recognize that a lot of it is that she just hits the right (wrong) buttons for me personally.

I happen to like both Alistair and Zevran a lot, BTW.

[Skyl4rk]

Yankee23 wrote...

Merilsell wrote...

BTW I love the new thread-title, it certainly is catchy xD But why not: "Alistair fangirls...more corrupted than the taint" ?

I like it!

I second that title