804 réponses à ce sujet

[Lady Jess]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Lady Jess wrote...
True, but THAT is the fault of The Gaider I think, not the character.

I personally think it is true to his character. Just like with the Redcliffe issue and the Landmseet.
Alistair is self-centered (not selfish), has a hard time not taking things personally, and he craves the attention he was never given.

I think it's understandable. And I forgot what I argued exactly in that thread (though I had more than two posts in there, I am sure). But I'll say now, I don't think Alistair should not have said this. That's not the point. He has the right to sure. We also have the right to be annoyed.

About forgetting your family is murdered? Well, at least he does seem to feel like an idiot when he realizes. And *I* for some reason didn't use the line at Flemeth's and we don't know how much Duncan told him. So, I got over it. But that first time? I was flailing at my screen:lol:

[Yankee23]

metalcraze33 wrote...

B tw I was wondering how some players rp a female mage and Alistair He is a templar

He's templar trained yes, but he clearly tells you he never wanted to be a templar. He does not have the same hard line view of mages that the chantry does. I have played multiple mages and imo the templar/mage romance is quite sweet.

On another note...it's fine to dislike characters but hate rants are pointless, especially when there seems to be a lack of understanding of the character. Understanding doesn't have to equal like, but it does help contribute to intelligent discussion.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Lady Jess wrote...
About forgetting your family is murdered? Well, at least he does seem to feel like an idiot when he realizes. And *I* for some reason didn't use the line at Flemeth's and we don't know how much Duncan told him. So, I got over it. But that first time? I was flailing at my screen:lol:

First time, I was annoyed.

And being annoyed at this and criticizing the character for it, does not mean we want a male lead that will slap us across the face and show no emotion. But that's Gaider, comments like that I don't take too seriously.

Now I don't hate Alistair for this at all. But I do think it's a big flaw of his that expresses itself on several occasions.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 05 novembre 2010 - 11:55 .

[tuppence95]

metalcraze33 wrote...

I wasn't being a troll I just stated exactly what i felt about it hating a character isn't trolling

tuppence95 wrote...

metalcraze33 wrote...

why am I not free to say this character could be better?

Hate is not the same thing as thinking someone can use improvement. 

You did edit out your initial subject line, so that helps a bit, but this one is still not exactly an opening to a discussion.  There's really no where to go from the statement that you hate Alistair.

Try communicating with a little more thought.  Watch KnightofPhoenix.  He's an expert at civilized debate. 

[Ryzaki]

Yeah I like Alistair and the "I forgot" lead to me facepalming.

That said its a flaw of his that makes him a bit more human. So its not too bad.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 05 novembre 2010 - 11:58 .

[tuppence95]

ejoslin wrote...

metalcraze33 wrote...

I wasn't being a troll I just stated exactly what i felt about it hating a character isn't trolling

Nono, *I* am the one trolling here.

Must... resist...  Alistair and Wynne after RTO...

Edit: Editing out my edit...

Nooooo!!!  Not listening!  *covers ears*

[tuppence95]

Actually, I just heard the "I forgot" dialog last night, with my Cousland-adopted mage.  It was much more contrite and apologetic than I remembered it.

[ejoslin]

tuppence95 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

metalcraze33 wrote...

I wasn't being a troll I just stated exactly what i felt about it hating a character isn't trolling

Nono, *I* am the one trolling here.

Must... resist...  Alistair and Wynne after RTO...

Edit: Editing out my edit...

Nooooo!!!  Not listening!  *covers ears*

You won't hear a thing...



God, I really need to just erase the toolset.  I swear.  I have no clue why I make these!

Modifié par ejoslin, 05 novembre 2010 - 11:59 .

[metalcraze33]

I actually gave a detailed view of why i hate the character If you disagree that is fine but don't say I didn't think It out and actually in my view Alistair does act a little like a Templar he does poke at morrigan for being an apostate though that may be because he secretly wants her lol

[KnightofPhoenix]

tuppence95 wrote...

Actually, I just heard the "I forgot" dialog last night, with my Cousland-adopted mage.  It was much more contrite and apologetic than I remembered it.

If it wasn't, it would have been outright insulting, instead of annoying and bordering offensive.

[ejoslin]

tuppence95 wrote...

Actually, I just heard the "I forgot" dialog last night, with my Cousland-adopted mage.  It was much more contrite and apologetic than I remembered it.

I get why Alistair forgets.  He's wrapped up in his own grief.  And he does feel bad for forgetting.  But I have to admit, it shut down any chance of romance with my queen Cousland.  She had just undergone the exact same kind of loss, maybe moreso since you don't expect to see your nephew slaughtered along with his mom (and dying in battle for a Gray Warden is always a possibility)  but she had to put everything to the side, and take on so much responsibility, because one of them had to.  It was a luxury for Alistair to be able to mourn so much, and one that my warden couldn't afford.

Hmmmm, they did make a good ruling couple anyway.

Modifié par ejoslin, 06 novembre 2010 - 12:03 .

[Sarah1281]

Except blood mages, he hates blood magic, but doesn't stop him from loving a blood mage either.

I wished they would have addressed that issue in the romance. Since they don't and Alistair doesn't appear to notice and/or care, it feels...cheap. I'm not sure that he would be able to be with a blood mage. The blood magic might not stop him from falling for her but I could see it being one of those deal-breakers for him or his reaction to it being one for her.

though that may be because he secretly wants her lol

Or because he hates her. They do have hate-sex in many games, I'll admit.

[metalcraze33]

Is seems the human noble storyline is doubly tragic because they lost everything they have and then the wardens get killed my human noble male went kind of ruthless after that

Modifié par metalcraze33, 06 novembre 2010 - 12:05 .

[Sarah1281]

Well, the only Warden you've even met at that point (besides Alistair) is Duncan who, depending on how you felt about leaving your dying parents, you may not be too fond of.

Modifié par Sarah1281, 06 novembre 2010 - 12:05 .

[tuppence95]

ejoslin wrote...

*snipped horrendous picture

God, I really need to just erase the toolset.  I swear.  I have no clue why I make these!

My eyes are burning!  Help!  

[ejoslin]

metalcraze33 wrote...

Is seems the human noble storyline is doubly tragic because they lost everything they have and then the wardens get killed my human noble male went kind of ruthless after that

I think all of the origins are tragic.  No matter what, they lose everything and join the wardens.  

Here's another "Alistair forgets" moment, though this is an oversight I'm sure.  City elf can tell him, at Flemeth's hut that her fiance was just killed.  Then when they go back to the Alienage, Alistair forgets and is all, "You never told me you were betrothed."  

But hey, why not throw that one out there as well!

edit: Sorry for your eyes, tuppence95

Modifié par ejoslin, 06 novembre 2010 - 12:10 .

[tuppence95]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

tuppence95 wrote...

Actually, I just heard the "I forgot" dialog last night, with my Cousland-adopted mage.  It was much more contrite and apologetic than I remembered it.

If it wasn't, it would have been outright insulting, instead of annoying and bordering offensive.

Well, at least my Cousland had a happy childhood and a loving & supportive family and friends.  Duncan was pretty much the only person who ever acted like he care about Alistair.  Losing her family still couldn't take away the sense of self-respect and confidence they had given her.  Alistair was finally getting a glimmer of confidence and then it was gone.  So my Cousland girl did cut him some slack.

BTW, KoP, did you go back enough pages to see the chaos you and Giggles started last night?  


*edited to add:
@ejoslin - there's so many weird oversights like that throughout the game.  Thanks to you and other modders, some of them are now fixed.  I guess that's what happens when you are working with a deadline and budget and EA.  

Modifié par tuppence95, 06 novembre 2010 - 12:13 .

[metalcraze33]

The city elf one is pretty bad and after my elf asked for a land and riches she got to rule an alienage really dude? I just helped save the world and you want me to go back to that dirty hell?

[Tigress M]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Lady Jess wrote...

tuppence95 wrote...

Avilia wrote...

Since I don't have the skills to argue a point as well as David Gaider, I give you...

David Gaider

Thanks for posting that!  Great response from Gaider.  Wow, he even dealt with KoP there.  

KoP has come so far since then...*tears up*

I actually have not changed my mind about the specific issue I was talking about there.

I find Alistair not remembering what happened to the Cousland, while he is crying about Duncan who told him this could happen, to be bordering offensive.

Agreed.  However, the lack of regard for the PCs past (in any origin), is something all the companions are guilty of, not just Alistair.  My first playthrough was a Dalish elf and I was absolutely crushed when no one would talk to me about Tamlen after he showed up in camp full of the taint.  It was like it never happened, and that HURT.  

As for the OP... hate Alistair as you wish.  That's the beauty of the game... we don't all have to agree.  I, however, love Alistair, in spite of, or perhaps more accurately said, because of, his flaws.  He's so human (even to the point where he gets so caught up in his grief he forgets that you've lost your own family) which I find highly attractive.

[ejoslin]

metalcraze33 wrote...

The city elf one is pretty bad and after my elf asked for a land and riches she got to rule an alienage really dude? I just helped save the world and you want me to go back to that dirty hell?

Land and riches grants you the Teyrnir of Gwaren actually.  Bann of the Alienage is the City Elf boon.

[KnightofPhoenix]

tuppence95 wrote...
Well, at least my Cousland had a happy childhood and a loving & supportive family and friends.  Duncan was pretty much the only person who ever acted like he care about Alistair.  Losing her family still couldn't take away the sense of self-respect and confidence they had given her.  Alistair was finally getting a glimmer of confidence and then it was gone.  So my Cousland girl did cut him some slack.

Which is perfectly ok.
Just like it's perfectly ok for someone else to say "f*ck you Alistair" because of it.

I didn't do either, but I do not feel obligated to believe that Alistair's loss is greater than a Cousland's. He not being able to handle it well, for understandable reasons (reasons that put his ability to lead highly in doubt for me), does not necessarily make it a worse fate. 

tuppence95 wrote...
BTW, KoP, did you go back enough pages to see the chaos you and Giggles started last night?  

Yea I did

[KnightofPhoenix]

Tigress M wrote...
Agreed.  However, the lack of regard for the PCs past (in any origin), is something all the companions are guilty of, not just Alistair.  My first playthrough was a Dalish elf and I was absolutely crushed when no one would talk to me about Tamlen after he showed up in camp full of the taint.  It was like it never happened, and that HURT.  

I actually wish he didn't say anything at all. Because asking someone who had to watch his / her family die "have you lost someone?" and then "oops, I forgot" can be more hurtful than not talking about it at all.

[metalcraze33]

oh yeah that is right my bad

[TheLegendofWade]

Hey, what Origin makes you kill an old friend/family or w/e when they've turned into a Ghoul?

[EDIT] Ah, nevermind, I see that it's the Dalish Origin.

Anyway, I agree that all companions are guilty of not caring about your feelings or your past.  Which romanceable character actually digs deep into your person and past and feels sorry for you?  Morrigan never shows sympathy.  Leliana doesn't.  Zevran?  Nope.  Alistar?  He mentions one time that he feels sorry for you.

Out of all the characters, Alistar actually shows the most sympathy for you. 

Sten is my favorite character.  He always has my back.  He doesn't expect me to pour out sympathy for him, and he doesn't expect sympathy in return.  Morrigan could be argued to be similar, but eh.

Anyway, I thought David made really good points.  I don't think Alistar is whiny, I just think he is flawed (in a good way) .  All the companions could use some little touch-ups in their interaction with the PC (no one talks to you about your past as they poor out to you about their own).  In the video game...the most inquisitive person about the PC's life is the Mad Hermit.  I wish I could romance him...

It's not as if the characters should pour out their feelings then immediately ask: "So what about you!?"  It would lessen their own hurt/story and seem maybe fake.  However, several nights/conversations later, maybe they could approach you and mention that they know nothing about you--and inquire....

I think the designers had limited time to incorporate things like this.  They just leave it at the assumption that everyone in your party knows about your past and such (camp fire stories that are never shown on screen). 

If they had more time/money/whatever, they could even make it possible for other companions to develop relationships with one another (with you having a little control on how they develop), and the game could be a lot different.  All of this is ambitious and no one has done this yet.  I can't fault Bioware for not having done it.

Modifié par TheLegendofWade, 06 novembre 2010 - 12:29 .

[Tigress M]

Yankee23 wrote...
I have played multiple mages and imo the templar/mage romance is quite sweet.

Completely off topic, but I can't resist... my little mage just melted when she heard Alistair and Wynne chatting and Alistair referred to Wynne as his "second favoritest mage".  I think I actually said, "Awwwwww!" out loud!