804 réponses à ce sujet

[metalcraze33]

thats true but i usually do things she approves of anyway or bribe her with pretty things

[Fangirl17]

I didnt read the whole thread but here is my 2 cents. I am a complete Alistair fangirl. I really enjoyed the character.Whether you like him or not depends on your personality.Its like in real life when people judge other people, one person could really like a person and one person can find him/her really anoying. Just because one person's opinion is different from yours doesnt mean they are wrong or stupid for liking them.Not dirrecting this at anyone in particular,just saying.



And it is incredibly anoying when some insults someone you like right? So you can have your opinion and you can list reasons on why you dont like Alistair but consider the feelings of his fans,calling him a whiny moron will erk peoples.But its the internet whatevs,haters gunnu hate :3

[EccentricSage]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Zevran just teases and deflects in ways that might be uncomfortable if taken too seriously, but are not insulting, at least, unless he gets jealous over a romanced Warden. lol I don't really see what Alistair thinks he's prooving by being rude and brash. He could, for all he knows, be getting us into trouble by pissing off the wrong people. Luckily there is no game mechanic for that. But from a roleplay perspective, some of his initial reactions to people are strangle-worthy.

Alistair might be getting into trouble with the wrong people? I'm not sure how to take that besides 'the Crows might be watching and not happy that Alistair is being mildly rude' or 'Zevran might turn on them and try to kill them again because Alistair is being mildly rude.' And, again, Zevran just tried to KILL you. Why is it so horrible if Alistair says something vaguely rude about his assassination skills? They just met and Zevran, again, tried to kill you. Alistair's not happy an assassin is coming along and says something not exactly nice. Why is this out of line or particularly stupid? If you think he's risking Zevran trying to kill everyone again over a few rude comments (and I'm not saying that he would but you mentioned he was taking a risk by not being polite) then it's better to know now just how little that 'I'm going to work with you now' is worth and an ally that has to be coddled so much or else he'll try to kill you really wouldn't be worth that much.

It's not just that, it's that attitude he gives Morrigan the very first time he lays eyes uppon her too.  An isolated insident wouldn't bother me so much, but it seems to be his usual way of treating people he dislikes without getting to know them first.  It's a trait I can not stand in people.  It acheives nothing and is counterproductive.

I'm saying, in relation to Zevran, that Alistair's tough guy talk only made him come off weak and scared, and was  irritating.  My point is that if he goes around mouthing off at random to everyone he dislikes, it could be trouble.  I mean, really, the guy who starts pissing contests might be king.  The thought of that makes me pretty uncomfortable.

As for the worth of Zevran if he were willing to betray us early on, well, let me explain it from my roleplay perspective.  As the Warden who spares him and lets him join up, I ether see him as useful or feel empathetic and want to give him a second chance at life.  Practicality would dictate that one would want to get to know this dangerouse new companion and make sure he has reason enough to want to stay on our side.  Notions of loyalty from someone you only just met are naive.  You don't know a person you only just met.  You do not yet understand what compells them, you do not control their will.  So it is important to manipulate the situation to your advantage in any way you can to gain a possitive outcome for all involved parties.  That means being respectful of the new guy and getting a more personal feel for him rather than just assuming he was telling the truth when you had him tied up in the dirt.  Even if he is/was still harboring any contemplation of finishing what he started, there is a possability that realizing he is welcome among you and will be treated well could still disuade him.

There is no such thing as the noble allie who will be loyal to complete strangers for no better reason than an oath.  People are more complicated than that, and have their own welfare, ideology, or agenda to look out for.  So no, I do not think Zevran would be less worthwhile a companion if rudeness towards him compelled him to betray the wardens.  It would simply be a waste of potential.  In fact, this is kind of what happens if the Warden ether does not bother to get to know him or reward him for his help, or if the warden is consistantly rude towards him... he sides with Taliesen.  The reason one warden's reactions to Zevran matter and the other's doesn't is because that's a game mechanic, that only the PC's decissions are not static.  Any variants in the NPCs are dependant uppon the actions or words of the PC.

[EccentricSage]

tuppence95 wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Zevran just teases and deflects in ways that might be uncomfortable if taken too seriously, but are not insulting, at least, unless he gets jealous over a romanced Warden. lol I don't really see what Alistair thinks he's prooving by being rude and brash. He could, for all he knows, be getting us into trouble by pissing off the wrong people. Luckily there is no game mechanic for that. But from a roleplay perspective, some of his initial reactions to people are strangle-worthy.

Alistair might be getting into trouble with the wrong people? I'm not sure how to take that besides 'the Crows might be watching and not happy that Alistair is being mildly rude' or 'Zevran might turn on them and try to kill them again because Alistair is being mildly rude.' And, again, Zevran just tried to KILL you. Why is it so horrible if Alistair says something vaguely rude about his assassination skills? They just met and Zevran, again, tried to kill you. Alistair's not happy an assassin is coming along and says something not exactly nice. Why is this out of line or particularly stupid? If you think he's risking Zevran trying to kill everyone again over a few rude comments (and I'm not saying that he would but you mentioned he was taking a risk by not being polite) then it's better to know now just how little that 'I'm going to work with you now' is worth and an ally that has to be coddled so much or else he'll try to kill you really wouldn't be worth that much.

It looked like EccentricSage was talking about how Alistair was a little rude to Morrigan and Flemeth when they first met, because they could have been dangerous and provoking them might not have been smart.

The first time I played, I was a little surprised at Alistair's sharp responses to Morrigan in their initial meeting.  But as soon as I figured out that she was an apostate, it made sense.  She and Flemeth represent what Alistair has been taught is wrong and not to be trusted.  And most of the slightly rude things he says about her are said tongue-in-cheek and are kinda funny.  Morrigan's insults to Alistair, however, were very personal and I thought in bad taste.  She immediately starts making fun of him for mourning Duncan.  That started as soon as our pc woke up.  And then she started complaining and making fun of my pc about every move she made.  I initially found Morrigan so distasteful that in my first few playthroughs, I just left her in camp and managed to survive without a mage until I collected Wynne.  I am glad that I finally took the time to get to know Morrigan and find out more about her story, because there's much more to her than the shrew I initially thought she was.

Yes!  That's a huge part of it.

I took her teasing of Alistair innitially to be understandable as he had offended her.  She had been hunted by Templars who wanted to kill her and her mother, and Alistair didn't react to her in a way that was any less ignorant than the rest of humanity.  Maybe it's just me, but from my perspective I instantly understood where she was coming from...  She's truly had to fight for survival in a world that hates her without knowing her.  That combined with Flemeth's teachings leave it to be no wonder that she tries to be heartless.  I often dissagree with her, and my wardens usually end up arguing with her, or telling her to back off when she's harassing Alistair in Lothering, but that does not seem to stop her from liking my warden, in my experience.  She can usually be reasoned with, in which case I get little dissaproval.  If she were ever to do something I were opposed to, like if it were possible in the game for her to try to make a deal with the Tevinter herself despite my saying no, I would surely fight her to the death.  But I can't help but respect her.

Basicly, I agree her coments about Alistair mourning Dunkan were out of line.  It was something that bothered me, but then, Alistair disliked her from the moment he saw her for no more than her being wilderfolk and a mage.  So it was hard for me to feel any worse for him than I'd feal for her.  I kind of wanted them BOTH to STFU, really.

[EccentricSage]

Merilsell wrote...


Well, everyone needs a hobby I suppose o__O

You're actually being really rude yourself, and are making acusations towards a fellow forum member whom you do not even know personaly.

In fact, considering that this is an Anti-Alistair thread, and your post is not relivent to the discussion, but is rather created to incite a base reaction from anyone who agrees with the creator of this thread, you technicaly are the troll here.

Here's a novel idea... If you don't like what the thread is about... don't click on the thread.  No one forces anyone to be here.  I find the butthurt reactions pretty amusing though.  I must say.

[EccentricSage]

metalcraze33 wrote...

lol true enough but he makes an excellent puppet king if your playing a character who wants to change the plight of the elves or something

F*** yes!  THAT is one of the better points of Alistair... Any Warden who can put up with him or even like him, can have that power to look forward to.  I just worry as to what he would do without my Warden looking over his shoulder.  Well intentioned things, I'm sure, he's not the brightest, and can be an ass, but he has a kind heart.  But 'the road to hell is paved with good intentions', or at least it can be.  He needs someone trustworthy watching over his shoulder, arguing with him if he's being too impractical, or pointing out to him if they think he's misjudged someone, which he is good at.

[metalcraze33]

EccentricSage wrote...

Merilsell wrote...


Well, everyone needs a hobby I suppose o__O

You're actually being really rude yourself, and are making acusations towards a fellow forum member whom you do not even know personaly.

In fact, considering that this is an Anti-Alistair thread, and your post is not relivent to the discussion, but is rather created to incite a base reaction from anyone who agrees with the creator of this thread, you technicaly are the troll here.

Here's a novel idea... If you don't like what the thread is about... don't click on the thread.  No one forces anyone to be here.  I find the butthurt reactions pretty amusing though.  I must say.

Yeah merilsell just comes in to try to rile things up by calling me a troll every few pages. You can tell she is a troll because she doesn't add to the convo just flames kinda creepy though she flames every board I make.
no one is even saying anything that bad and she just won't stop the troll roll.

Modifié par metalcraze33, 09 novembre 2010 - 07:59 .

[Sarah1281]

As for the worth of Zevran if he were willing to betray us early on, well, let me explain it from my roleplay perspective. As the Warden who spares him and lets him join up, I ether see him as useful or feel empathetic and want to give him a second chance at life. Practicality would dictate that one would want to get to know this dangerouse new companion and make sure he has reason enough to want to stay on our side. Notions of loyalty from someone you only just met are naive. You don't know a person you only just met. You do not yet understand what compells them, you do not control their will. So it is important to manipulate the situation to your advantage in any way you can to gain a possitive outcome for all involved parties. That means being respectful of the new guy and getting a more personal feel for him rather than just assuming he was telling the truth when you had him tied up in the dirt. Even if he is/was still harboring any contemplation of finishing what he started, there is a possability that realizing he is welcome among you and will be treated well could still disuade him.



There is no such thing as the noble allie who will be loyal to complete strangers for no better reason than an oath. People are more complicated than that, and have their own welfare, ideology, or agenda to look out for. So no, I do not think Zevran would be less worthwhile a companion if rudeness towards him compelled him to betray the wardens. It would simply be a waste of potential. In fact, this is kind of what happens if the Warden ether does not bother to get to know him or reward him for his help, or if the warden is consistantly rude towards him... he sides with Taliesen. The reason one warden's reactions to Zevran matter and the other's doesn't is because that's a game mechanic, that only the PC's decissions are not static. Any variants in the NPCs are dependant uppon the actions or words of the PC.

Yes, obviously how people treat someone will influence how loyal they are and I'm not expecting an assassin who just tried to kill you to be fanatically loyal from the get-go. Just the same, I personally feel that if I have to walk around egg-shells and spend a ton of time making sure to praise that person and make sure they're adjusting perfectly then that companion will likely be too high-maintenance to justify having him around. The party is full of sniping. Morrigan snipes, Alistair snipes, Shale snipes, ect. I cannot possibly go around making sure that no one says anything that might potentially annoy or hurt the feelings of one other. Unless the companions are prevented from ever speaking to each other, it really can't be done. You might feel that it's worth it to obsessively watch Zevran to make sure no one's rude to him which might make him decide that going back to the hellhole that is the Crows is worth it but I feel that if he were really going to betray you over something so petty then he would, quite frankly, not be worth it. As it stands in game, he only betrays you if you manage to convince him he's better off with the Crows which takes a lot more than a little rudeness from you or the other companions.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

>yawn<



It's the Feast of All Trolls Day, and no one bothered to inform me?



BBWistair disapproves greatly, and has decided to make his divine displeasure known.







Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[Giggles_Manically]

Only that picture can ruin banana, oatmeal, chocolate chip muffins Skadi.

Thanks.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Only that picture can ruin banana, oatmeal, chocolate chip muffins Skadi.
Thanks.

Hey, it's what I'm here for.

[metalcraze33]

great want muffins now

[nos_astra]

EccentricSage wrote...
... Alistair disliked her from the moment he saw her for no more than her being wilderfolk and a mage.

So what? Mages and wilderfolk are widely feared. Alistair is reacting like most Fereldans would. Daveth and Jory good examples, both are as suspicious as Alistair is, they are just too scared to be rude.

I appreciate that at least ONE of the characters does act like I imagine a normal Fereldan would. If you listen carefully to Wynne you learn that children are sometimes even killed out of fear when they show signs of magic.

Modifié par klarabella, 09 novembre 2010 - 04:24 .

[metalcraze33]

Ever wonder why most people in the game are scared of being turned into frogs? I mean mages can set you on fire freeze you and make you explode and your worried about being a frog?

And I love the story I just don't like alistair

[nos_astra]

metalcraze33 wrote...
Ever wonder why most people in the game are scared of being turned into frogs? I mean mages can set you on fire freeze you and make you explode and your worried about being a frog?

No, not really. I don't take the portrayal of Jory and Daveth too seriously. I never understood why those two redshirts would be recruited to be Wardens.

[ejoslin]

Fangirl17 wrote...

I didnt read the whole thread but here is my 2 cents. I am a complete Alistair fangirl. I really enjoyed the character.Whether you like him or not depends on your personality.Its like in real life when people judge other people, one person could really like a person and one person can find him/her really anoying. Just because one person's opinion is different from yours doesnt mean they are wrong or stupid for liking them.Not dirrecting this at anyone in particular,just saying.

And it is incredibly anoying when some insults someone you like right? So you can have your opinion and you can list reasons on why you dont like Alistair but consider the feelings of his fans,calling him a whiny moron will erk peoples.But its the internet whatevs,haters gunnu hate :3

I have to say, I disagree with this completely.  Alistair is a fictional character.  HIS feelings aren't hurt.  And really, just because someone finds him not to their liking, it's not a slight against anyone who does like the character.

A long time ago on these boards, someone came up with the idea that Zevran is a rapist.  They made a thread about it.  It got really busy there, but most of the Zevran fans stayed away, and the ones who posted made their points.  David Gaider finally posted in there as well, that Zevran is not a rapist ya da da (I get the point, btw, of why someone would say that, but when the writer says nope, then I take him at his word).

Anyway, that was all fine. The subject stayed on the front page for a long time.  But THEN someone, not satisfied with the lack of reaction in that thread (no real anger was coming out from the ZevFans), while it was still on the front page, had to talk about "Zevran the rapist" in the former ZevThread.  HE was a troll.  He was a troll because there was already a subject where that was being discussed -- the only reason to move to the ZevranLove thread was to troll.

People have the right to discuss what they want here about Dragon Age.  Not everyone will agree with everyone else -- if we all did, it would be pretty boring tbh.  Zevran hate threads die quickly because, not only are they ignored, there's only so much you can say about, "I slit his throat" or "the bastard betrayed me" before you're just repeating yourself.  Most people who post in Zevran hate threads don't know the character, so there's nothing to discuss about him.  If you hate him, you kill him.  Yay!

My point?  I have none other than, you are warned by the title of the thread that some anti-Alistair things may be said here.  Don't take it personally.  It's not personal at all.

[ejoslin]

klarabella wrote...

metalcraze33 wrote...
Ever wonder why most people in the game are scared of being turned into frogs? I mean mages can set you on fire freeze you and make you explode and your worried about being a frog?

No, not really. I don't take the portrayal of Jory and Daveth too seriously. I never understood why those two redshirts would be recruited to be Wardens.

Alistair mentions it.  Zevran may mention it in a bark.  I think there are a few other times you're asked about it as well.  It does seem to be a common belief.

[nos_astra]

ejoslin wrote...

klarabella wrote...

metalcraze33 wrote...
Ever wonder why most people in the game are scared of being turned into frogs? I mean mages can set you on fire freeze you and make you explode and your worried about being a frog?

No, not really. I don't take the portrayal of Jory and Daveth too seriously. I never understood why those two redshirts would be recruited to be Wardens.

Alistair mentions it.  Zevran may mention it in a bark.  I think there are a few other times you're asked about it as well.  It does seem to be a common belief.

I know Alistair mentions it and I could buy it as a some kind of templar-joke from him.

It's still nonsense. You don't kill children because you are afraid they could turn you into a frog. It seems more like a popcultural reference to me that doesn't necessarily belong in a world where actual mages exist and a feared for far worse things.

Modifié par klarabella, 09 novembre 2010 - 04:51 .

[ejoslin]

I don't know... Being turned into a frog is actually really REALLY bad.

[mousestalker]

The main problem I have with Alistair is that he can be a complete and total kill-stealer. I was going for a great screenshot of my DC warden and Andraste the dragon when he came out of no where for the leaping dragon ride.



That sort of thing happens way too often with Alistair in the party.



/Alibash

[nos_astra]

ejoslin wrote...
I don't know... Being turned into a frog is actually really REALLY bad.

Someone might step on you ... or you could accidentally jump into a mixer.

[mousestalker]

klarabella wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
I don't know... Being turned into a frog is actually really REALLY bad.

Someone might step on you ... or you could accidentally jump into a mixer.

Or run into a hungry, homesick Orlesian.

[ejoslin]

Shavon wrote...

I thought he said toad. Toads are NOT tasty *shifty eyes*
/shrug

I'm a city girl.  Toads, frogs, same thing!