391 réponses à ce sujet

[Adanu]

Are people *really* arguing about boobs, muscles, and stereotypes still?



We need one big thread where people can rant about this stupid crap so I don't have to see it everywhere I go now.

[In Exile]

tmp7704 wrote...
Essentially, yes it's overwriting the writer. However i don't think it's necessarily a negative thing per se, not in a game which works as "choose your own adventure" story to begin with.

Right, but I do. This is the point I am trying so very hard to get across. There is no way for me to not see this as a negative.

Regarding this example in particular -- it can be waved away very easily as Morrigan learning (once she comes out of her Wilds and gets more exposure to human society) that covered up sexuality can be frequently as effective as showing everything she has as "hello".

If the game doesn't show it, it doesn't happen.

Or just figuring out that there's small chance she will be using her seductive skills on genlocks in Deep Roads, but much bigger chance these genlocks will try to poke her with sharp arrows and sticks.

If the game doesn't show it, it doesn't happen.

Things don't have to be put explicitly in the game by the writer to make sense or remain coherent.

Yes, they do! That's my entire point. If the writers aren't putting it in the game, it doesn't happen for me. It is honestly that simple.

Addai67 wrote...
Except in Origins, you could have your unique
appearances and still have fun, and I could have my customization and
have fun.  Win-win.  In DA2, you still have your fun, and I don't.  I
get that you're okay with that, but don't tell me it's not a step down
from what we had in Origins.

For who, exactly? Morrigan? 

That's it. Everyone else is stuck with generic armour.

I'm telling you it isn't a step down from Origins because I don't know what game you played, but I never got to have the custom and unique apperances I wanted for my PC or my NPCs.

You had three unique sets of massive armour. That was it. If you were a rogue or a mage, you looked like a mook.

[Rawgrim]

Mook was killed on the docks. By a vampire.

[AlanC9]

In Exile wrote...
To boil it down, what I am arguing is that what I want is a highly invested attempt by Bioware to design 3 unique armours for each of (say) 8 companions. That means 24 unique items. I prefer this over 40 generic items all characters can wear. 

Depending on how many armor phenotypes we're talking about, the generic sets could cost far more zots, since each generic set needs to be made many more times to cover all NPC body types, while armor for a single NPC needs to be built only once. Though you obviously lose this advantage for any equipment that could also go on the PC.

[hexaligned]

AbounI wrote...

In the inventory screens, what's the meaning of the small golden stars?
Is it  a symbol for the quality of the item, like the tier (1to7)?

I'd say that's correct, it reminded me of Sacred 2, which has the same exact system.

[Ryzaki]

----9----- wrote...

From a lot of the comments in this thread, BW should consider making a Game Designer Program that all the would-be designers can tinker away with changing the GUI, the bodies, the armors and everything else they don't like.

Then the rest of us could just play the game that BW makes.

I believe they practically did.

It was called a toolset.

Hm...I hope they give us another one.

[tmp7704]

In Exile wrote...

Right, but I do. This is the point I am trying so very hard to get across. There is no way for me to not see this as a negative.

Well i can understand you'd want to avoid it if you consider it a negative. But then why does it matter if someone else who doesn't subscribe to this mindset does that in their own game playthrough which you're most likely never going to see?

It's a variant of that "if a tree falls on a deaf mime in the woods" thing.

Alternatively, it can be argued that by the very fact the game allows you to swap gear of the companions, the writers acknowledge that their creations aren't bunch of simpletons who can't come up with more than single combination of clothes to wear, ever. And who stop being themselves as soon as they put on anything else.

If the game doesn't show it, it doesn't happen.

The game doesn't show many things due to budget and time restraints, and as part of narrative. It doesn't mean these things don't happen -- not to look far for example, DA2 will compress 10 years of Hawke's life into a 10-20 hours of entertainment. That leaves us with lot of time that "doesn't happen".

Yes, they do! That's my entire point. If the writers aren't putting it in the game, it doesn't happen for me. It is honestly that simple.

I must say i simply don't understand this view if just because it can create multitude of problems with grasping the actual storyline -- since not everything can be shown, when events not shown or not alluded to still influence behaviour and decisions of the characters, do you sit there with firm belief these characters act without rhyme nor reason whatsoever? Or when events are not shown but then spoken about, do you sit there thinking these character's must've gone bonkers because they talk about things that did not happen?

[RogueWriter3201]

Much as Mike expected in the Podcast, folks both had thier respective questions answered, while others have simply become more incensed at the percieved slight against what they feel would make a *Better* Dragon Age. For my part, I loved damn near everything that Mike talked about. It's great to know that alot of elements from the inventory system in DAO will be retained; in Mikes words, using the "If it ain't Broke," system. However, even those things that were not broken but could benefit from being expanded upon or tweeked were.
 

With Companions, I really digg the idea that they will retain a specific appearence/style over the course of the story. Coupled with the fact that Mike indicated, over time, they would improve thier appearence/style themselves so that they are never seen in something which flies in the face of thier class/lifestyle. So, for those ladies out there, and guys with odd taste, Varric will always be sporting some kind of tunic that leaves his chest bare. I'm happy for you, ladies.


Also, I thought the new skill-tree system is really a step in the right direction to help streamline the sometimes irratating get A to get B to get to C system from DAO. Not only is it now much easier to put a Follower down a particular skill set, but you can even improve upon the skills you choose for them instead of having to spend points on talents you don't even really want them to have. The Idea of making Bethany simply a "Better" Healer, rather then being forced to take her down other trees just for the sake of alloting points somewhere is nice.
 

Really, the only point of contention I have is that Mike did not touch on two of the more interesting Icons shown in the Skill tree. Both above and below Isabela's Swashbuckler icon were two symbols that would appear to be akin to the Paragon and Renegade symbols from Mass Effect or the Open Palm/Closed Fist symbols from Jade Empire. Now, I'm *some* others who noticed basically went down the, "SMAGOD DRAGONEFFECT OHNOES," route; and, you know what? If they did, that's thier problem. If those Icons do in fact indicate a Morality system more akin to Mass Effect I'm all for it.

In DAO, aside from hardening either Leliana or Alistair, or keeping thier pure nature intact, there really wasn't much indicating that the time Followers spent with you changed them for better or worse. Yes, there were some small things, i.e. Shale hating soft squishy people less and actually wanting to become flesh and blood, Sten coming to see that not all Foreigners are Barbarians, and so forth, but, aside from those points, there really wasn't any indepth indicator. We already know that the new dialogue system will allow us to "Argue our Points," to followers that might come to disagree with Hawke's way of doing things and that, over the course of those discusssions, Hawke can actually sway thier viewpoints, i.e. make a D-Bag Follower less of a D-Bag. Or, for those who prefer, "more" of a D-Bag.
 

That said, if those icons were part of a kind of "Champion" or "Aggression" morality meter, getting more clarification would have been a bonus. I can wait though. Overall, I continue to love the direction Dragon Age is taking. It's clear others do not. Well, I'm sorry for them/you, but, thus far, Mike and company are really delivering the kind of RPG-game I can get behind. Will I always have a spot in my heart for the Old School D&D-ish RPGs? Of course. But, the idea of streamlining the old RPG mechanics and making them something innovative that doesn't overshadow characters and story is just Spec-frakking-tacular. Can not wait for the next bit of news. Well done, BioWare.

[AlanC9]

tmp7704 wrote...

Well i can understand you'd want to avoid it if you consider it a negative. But then why does it matter if someone else who doesn't subscribe to this mindset does that in their own game playthrough which you're most likely never going to see?.

Those alternate gear sets come at a cost, of course. If they're in, In Exile is paying for those items rather than something else he'd prefer to have in the box.

Moreover, as I read In Exile's earlier post, he doesn't just want no generic items, he wants the items that the characters do have to be meaningful. More Duncan's Shields and Marjolaine's Recurves.

Note that this is how fantasy literature typically handles items. You've got a few really important things, completely generic stuff that's beneath notice, and nothing in between.

[crimzontearz]

so uhmmmm.......when was the DA2 team taken over by the ME2 team?



seriously, it's not like I loathe all the proposed changes but...it's hard to ignore that the similarities are piling up



Companions cannot be fully customized...Just like ME2



Companions now have unique classes and class trees different from hawke's...just like in ME and ME2



Changes to companions' customizations were done to "make them stand out" just like it was said in ME2



Abilites have now "upgrades" just like they do in ME2



again I do not resent all these changes (perhaps only the bit about not customizing our followers) but.....come on

[twincast]

I suppose the "Paragon" and "Renegade" lookalike abilities depend on friendship/rivalry path?

[KcK__]

Nothing really unpleasant info here... Companions armours not fully customizable is something I can live whit if this is used to give the character more personality, Nothing to say about the inventory system, I've never played ME or ME2 so can't make any comparison either. The inventory system is DA:O was decent, nothing to complain but not really worthy of writing to home about.



The fact that companions will now have a special skill tree is something I really like as an idea. In DA:O every time I played my companions ultimately had the same skill set in every playthrough. (Alistair sword and shield, Sten and Oghren two handers) It's just always felt a bit... boring. Maybe this will change the situation. And before anyone says: "Why did you make those characters to have the same skill set every time?" Well, honestly, that was just how I felt they were meant to be played, i.e Alistair having a sword and shield seemed to be the "real" way of playing him. It's just all between my ears I'm sure



What comes to the accusations considering "DA2 game play being dumbed down" I really find it to be so. At least not with the current information. For me, DA:O was never really about the RPG'ish gameplay, it was more about the choices that were sometimes really hard to make and it was also about the story and the characters. As long as the quality in these three categories is kept high I really don't mind if the game play or UI or whatever is made more fluent (is this proper english) to use.



That's what I've heard on the road anyhow, take it for what it is.

[AlanC9]

crimzontearz wrote...

so uhmmmm.......when was the DA2 team taken over by the ME2 team?

Maybe what happened is that the DA2 team played an early ME2 build and really loved it.

[Brockololly]

twincast wrote...

I suppose the "Paragon" and "Renegade" lookalike abilities depend on friendship/rivalry path?

Yeah, it seems perhaps they get specific bonuses or skills maybe depending on their status? I didn't even catch those symbols before.


I really hope those screens are a work in progress though because they a.) seem to have everything oddly scrunched down in to the middle of the PC screen and b.) look really, really barren. I know its just the inventory, but still, its pretty bland looking.

[tmp7704]

AlanC9 wrote...

Those alternate gear sets come at a cost, of course. If they're in, In Exile is paying for those items rather than something else he'd prefer to have in the box.

I'm thinking of something slightly different, though. Or maybe just about a bit different approach to the subject -- while the developers spend some time on creation of these "unique" outfits, it doesn't free them from the need to create additional, different outfits for other NPCs (these outfits need to look different otherwise the whole concept of uniquely looking companions goes out of the window)

If the companions are then allowed to wear these NPC outfits that had to be created anyway simply because the other NPCs have to wear something, that's hardly a problem for someone who'd rather have their companion keep the "iconic" appearance in their own playthrough?

[tmp7704]

AlanC9 wrote...

Maybe what happened is that the DA2 team played an early ME2 build and really loved it.

I think it may be more something like Mr.Laidlaw having certain views on what makes for a good game and sticking to them -- Jade Empire also had fixed appearances for characters, after all.

[Addai]

AlanC9 wrote...

Moreover, as I read In Exile's earlier post, he doesn't just want no generic items, he wants the items that the characters do have to be meaningful. More Duncan's Shields and Marjolaine's Recurves.

Note that this is how fantasy literature typically handles items. You've got a few really important things, completely generic stuff that's beneath notice, and nothing in between.

Because it makes complete sense that there is a bow you find in Marjolaine's closet that only Leliana can use?  I know she's the Maker's chosen and all...

[Addai]

In Exile wrote...

If the game doesn't show it, it doesn't happen. 

   Do you always have this limited a reality?  If you've never been to China, it doesn't exist?

You had three unique sets of massive armour. That was it. If you were a rogue or a mage, you looked like a mook.

I'm not against unique sets.  Unique is great.  But tell me how it makes sense that there's a strategically placed bandanna that Isabela can wear, but no other female in the game can put it on.  Or why Isabela can ONLY wear that strategically placed bandanna and no other piece of clothing ever made in Thedas.

[tmp7704]

Addai67 wrote...

But tell me how it makes sense that there's a strategically placed bandanna that Isabela can wear, but no other female in the game can put it on.

It's because if any other female tries to put on a bandana Isabela cuts the ****.

[aaniadyen]

Podcast was great, loved the "People could be listening to this in SPACE! You know, if you put it on the internet, it lasts forever!" part.
As for the static armor, I don't mind it too much. I'd say the great stuff they announced outweighs it by a lot. I think a lot of people's complaints would go away if they didn't spend as much time on this forum. It's seriously not a big deal.

Modifié par aaniadyen, 05 novembre 2010 - 11:53 .

[tishyw]

crimzontearz wrote...

so uhmmmm.......when was the DA2 team taken over by the ME2 team?

seriously, it's not like I loathe all the proposed changes but...it's hard to ignore that the similarities are piling up

Companions cannot be fully customized...Just like ME2

Companions now have unique classes and class trees different from hawke's...just like in ME and ME2

Changes to companions' customizations were done to "make them stand out" just like it was said in ME2

Abilites have now "upgrades" just like they do in ME2

again I do not resent all these changes (perhaps only the bit about not customizing our followers) but.....come on

Yeah, I think it might be time to dust off some of the old "Dragon Effect 2" threads!

[soteria]

Haven't had time to read this entire thread yet, but I thought it was a good podcast. I have mixed feelings about the armor. I usually ended up giving certain companions the same armor every time (Sten = Juggernaut, Leliana = Dragonskin, Oghren = Legion of the Dead, etc), so I'm not sure how much that will really affect me.

I'm trying to figure out the gear screen. The stats, from top to bottom are health, stamina, armor, defense, attack, and what, damage? Why is his attack, armor, and defense zero when he's wearing armor and is a level 2 character? Obviously no points were put into con/will, or he'd have more than 110/110 hp/mp. Magic and cunning should be out, so that leaves str and dex... those zeros are bugging me.

Also, I had almost forgotten Bioware was a Canadian company. Outfits. Yep.

[soteria]

I'm not against unique sets. Unique is great. But tell me how it makes sense that there's a strategically placed bandanna that Isabela can wear, but no other female in the game can put it on. Or why Isabela can ONLY wear that strategically placed bandanna and no other piece of clothing ever made in Thedas.

Because she likes the way she's dressed and she's not a doll to play dress up with, I guess. Grown woman, and all that. I dunno, but it seems like if you're going down the realism/makes sense road, what makes sense is for your companions to wear what they want without asking the player for input.