391 réponses à ce sujet

[slimgrin]

Rawgrim wrote...

I forsee alot of different outfits later. In the form of DLC`s....

Another thing about ME2 that miffed me. Body armor was nerfed big time in that game. The options available for customization in the vanilla version were paltry by any standards.

[the_one_54321]

In Exile wrote...
but I absolutely disagree that it's appropriate in an RPG for the player to decide what is appropriate for the personality of an NPC.

Agreed.

[Addai]

leonia42 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

lv12medic wrote...

I don't see anything wrong with companions having their own armor... I mean don't companions have a mind of their own and can figure out how to dress themselves without having papa or mama Hawke telling them what to wear?  Sometimes in DA:O it feels like I'm playing dress up with a doll action figure.

...phew, that was a close one.

The thing is, if you wanted to keep Alistair in splintmail the entire game in DAO, that was your prerogative.  But at least we got a choice.

Less choice= bad.

Dragon Effect= bad.

I don't see a lack of choice in terms of stats with the DA 2 system, just less choice in appearance (and we don't know for sure yet if we're getting multiple outfit appearances or not).

That's still a huge step down from being able to mix and match almost any armor piece in the game to suit your team members.  And appearance is related to build because of course armor carries stats.  For instance, I would usually spec Alistair to dual wield and put him in leather armor.  I could give sod all if BioWare meant him to look and fight that way.  It's my game, my party, and I ought to be able to choose.

[Reaverwind]

Merci357 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

If you guys want smaller boobs, I want a thin non-muscled male lead. I want a lanky bookworm mage nerd. Seriously. That's fair.

Okay then. Everyone wins. I want my mages to be scrawny, I want my warriors to be buff and I want my rogues to be lithe. Male and Female.

QFT. No more females witch stick-arms lifting 2-handers, and away with the Mr.Olympia mages

Indeed. I want female warriors to actually look the part - and not like playboy models who look like they couldn't lift a grocery sack to save their lives.

[ViSeiRa]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Curses! Podcast discovered before it is ready! (darned clever fans)

Victor is finishing it officially on the BioWare Blog now and will have it ready, including 3 screenshots to help you understand what Mike is talking about, asap. Stand by.

Did I mention these screenshots will be your first glimpse of the GUI?

PC GUI I assume? is that the quick slot bar under there? I haven't listened to the podcast itself, I hope they mention it there.

[ashwind]

Saibh wrote...

Uh. No, her body is not balanced. She has tiny, tiny shoulders, a small, concave waists, gigantic at least double-D sized breasts, and no muscle or fat to speak of.

That isn't proportionate, at all. The female models of DAO had wide shoulders--you're right. But that's a more common in women than the DA2 models proportions.

Haha okay. I suppose they are not realistic but I will take wonder women proportions over planet of the apes anytime.

Did I mention I quite like ME2 Miranda's unrealistic body  Tis at least pleasant to behold (for me)

[Saibh]

the_one_54321 wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...
We're going off-topic but the Male archtype doesn't exploit the male, he's shown as strong and confident while the female archtype is shown as this object used for the manly man's manly sexual needs.

When you're a 5'8 guy, a 6'3 beefcake is pretty difficult to tolerate. Just saying.

I know that I've never had to deal with the image issues that women have. But I wonder how many of them literally got dragged out to the playground after school to be beaten up because they looked wimpy. Sexist imagery goes both ways. Double standards are wrong.

Or maybe they got beat up for being overweight--most likely by other girls. That happens. You should probably also take into account that women aren't usually as aggressive as men in schools. Their version of physical trauma is psychological trauma. And women very often get abused by other women and men for their physical appearance as well.

Regardless, this is what you're not understanding:

Men make men look idealisitic.

Men make women look idealistic.

That's the big difference. The fact that a man's idealized body type is muscular because he looks powerful and strong is appealing to both men and women. The fact that a woman's idealized body type very curvy is to make her look sexy and appealing. To men.

There's also the fact that being muscular directly contributes to your combat ability and prowess, where ginormous bazooka breasts on a figure that isn't ideal for supporting them actively hinders her.

Modifié par Saibh, 05 novembre 2010 - 06:23 .

[Ympulse]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Ympulse wrote...

Her shoulders are as narrow as my thigh.

Hyperbole, I suppose. but it doesen't change the fact that her entire body would have to be far more muscular in order for that posture to be natural. Hell, she'd have a stronger back than most military men just from keeping a proper posture all day.

I disagree. Her current stance is one women use all the time.

Your picture doesen't have 8+-pound bags of flesh and fat hanging off her chest.

[Sharuko]

ashwind wrote...

Saibh wrote...

Uh. No, her body is not balanced. She has tiny, tiny shoulders, a small, concave waists, gigantic at least double-D sized breasts, and no muscle or fat to speak of.

That isn't proportionate, at all. The female models of DAO had wide shoulders--you're right. But that's a more common in women than the DA2 models proportions.

Haha okay. I suppose they are not realistic but I will take wonder women proportions over planet of the apes anytime.

Did I mention I quite like ME2 Miranda's unrealistic body  Tis at least pleasant to behold (for me)

Yeah but Miranda was genetically engineered. 

[Addai]

In Exile wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...Or i don't share the designer's idea that particular outfit makes character look good. I just don't get why they feel this must be "our way or the highway" to the point where the alternative becomes removed.

I do get they may see appeal in selling horse follower armour DLC, though.

DLC scams aside, I have never understood the NPC is a slave to player's perception mentality. Each NPC is their own person - they are entitled to their own style and opinions. It's give and take with abilities because auto-level or already invested points lead to hardcore gimped characters, but I absolutely disagree that it's appropriate in an RPG for the player to decide what is appropriate for the personality of an NPC.

Because it's a roleplaying game.  I should have some flexibility to set an NPC follower's looks and characteristics the same way I choose how to level them.  Or are you really going to argue that auto-level is the way to go?  The devs know better about the NPC, after all?

[Fishy]

Sharuko wrote...

I will miss equipping characters with great armor. But I think this is a good move, but then again I preferred how they did it in ME2.

Yeah but how many different armor throughout the game ? How many different kind of armor ,we used for each individual companions?Was it much more different between leather level 4 and leather level 12?

i remember player complaining at the launch of the game about  your character having the same stuff after 10 hours of gameplay .. Do you remember? Or having the same  skin for your armor..


- WOW!!!! I finaly got Wade dragonskin armor!!
-Oh it's just a  generic leather armor with fire resist

[Boombox]

Ramante wrote...

Too bad Isabela's outfit is fixed, now I have to watch her walk around in those amazing boots all the time. I'm so jealous. x.x

They really are amazing boots.. and I'm a guy. <_<

[In Exile]

the_one_54321 wrote...

I know that I've never had to deal with the image issues that women have. But I wonder how many of them literally got dragged out to the playground after school to be beaten up because they looked wimpy. Sexist imagery goes both ways. Double standards are wrong.

The thing is, even being stupidly in shape does not make you a beefcake depending on your natural physique. My hobby is rock-climbing. It takes me a month to get into proper shape during the summer, and I get at around 145 pounds (while being 5'7.5). Put a t-shirt on me, though, and I look like just about every other guy. Being in shape, and even being really ripped, doesn't make you massive.

This linebacker build that's so prominent in games isn't even the most common athletic frame for a guy, which is essentially my complaint. It's not that I want my video-game heroes to look like they're oveweight or super skinny. Just moderately athletic as opposed to beefcake (see Hawke's arms in his default armour, or the DA:O naked male mesh).

Modifié par In Exile, 05 novembre 2010 - 06:24 .

[Rawgrim]

Good point Addai67

[MassAffected]

Saibh wrote...

John Crichton wrote...

Christ, must EVERYTHING turn into a sexism argument?

You saying this indicates to me you are a construction worker who spends his entire day munching on manwiches and wolf-whistling dames.

Yes, I'm joking.

No, you're not...

[Lord_Valandil]

Oh, heavens. Mods. Devs.

A lock would be greatly appreciated.



I'm getting sick of this kind of discussions. This wasn't a thread to begin with another one.

[tmp7704]

In Exile wrote...

DLC scams aside, I have never understood the NPC is a slave to player's perception mentality. Each NPC is their own person - they are entitled to their own style and opinions. It's give and take with abilities because auto-level or already invested points lead to hardcore gimped characters, but I absolutely disagree that it's appropriate in an RPG for the player to decide what is appropriate for the personality of an NPC.

And before you feel tempted to retort with the choice reply - the loss of customizable and distinct NPC armour is a drawback for me, because that specific feature makes a difference for my enjoyment of the game.

Isn't that enough of a reason to allow the player adjust NPCs to their liking?

I don't view it as "slave to player" mentality. I see it rather as ability to make creative changes to the initial image of the NPC, and as such source of variety and creativity in the story. At the bottom of it the NPCs aren't "their own persons" but rather ideas of certain human being (their designer) rolled into a virtual figure. And i enjoy the ability to tweak these ideas to some degree and then treat that tweaked version as "their own person", one that may happen to be slightly different from the stock original, if just in appearance.

edit: also, specifically on the topic of changing the followers' gear, i don't see why it's "absolutely inappropriate" for the player to do -- what if the player does it as form of role-playing for their followers, in attempt to make them more like real people who do make such decisions where it comes to picking equipment etc?

Modifié par tmp7704, 05 novembre 2010 - 06:34 .

[Saibh]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

Oh, heavens. Mods. Devs.
A lock would be greatly appreciated.

I'm getting sick of this kind of discussions. This wasn't a thread to begin with another one.

This discussion was brought about by seeing the new screenshots--we are talking about the new material.

[Maria Caliban]

Ympulse wrote...

Your picture doesen't have 8+-pound bags of flesh and fat hanging off her chest.

Are you saying that large breasted women can't stand with a hip out like small breasted women? Because, you know, they're not a different species. The weight of ones chest doesn't change your ability to shift your hips.

I mean, have you ever seen belly dancing? Many dancers are larger women and hip and belly movement is one of the defining parts of the style.

[Fishy]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Ympulse wrote...

Your picture doesen't have 8+-pound bags of flesh and fat hanging off her chest.

Are you saying that large breasted women can't stand with a hip out like small breasted women? Because, you know, they're not a different species. The weight of ones chest doesn't change your ability to shift your hips.

I mean, have you ever seen belly dancing? Many dancers are larger women and hip and belly movement is one of the defining parts of the style.

Yes

[the_one_54321]

Saibh wrote...
Or maybe they got beat up for being overweight--most likely by other girls. That happens. You should probably also take into account that women aren't usually as aggressive as men in schools. Their version of physical trauma is psychological trauma. And women very often get abused by other women and men for their physical appearance as well.

Regardless, this is what you're not understanding:

Men make men look idealisitic.

Men make women look idealistic.

That's the big difference. The fact that a man's idealized body type is muscular because he looks powerful and strong is appealing to both men and women. The fact that a woman's idealized body type very curvy is to make her look sexy and appealing. To men.

There's also the fact that being muscular directly contributes to your combat ability and prowess, where ginormous bazooka breasts on a figure that isn't ideal for supporting them actively hinders her.

No one is saying that the sexism against women doesn't exist. What is insulting here is that when a guy pipes up and says "well it's kind of sexist against men too" you all start rallying to tell us to shut up, that we've never lived through the issues that women have, that it's not the same thing, that we have no right to claim sexism against men. It's like you have a sense of entitlement. You have a right to complain. But we don't. We should just sit down and shut up.

Screw that.

If it's sexist against men, then darnit it is sexist against men. Acknowledge that, please. Is it as bad as the woman image? Maybe not. Is it applied the same way as the woman image? Maybe not. Has it been happening as long as the woman image? Maybe not. (that one is kind of debatable) I am more than willing to accept that the female image is sexualized and idealized and likely done so in a way that is often degrading to women. But you don't you tell me that I have never experienced sexism or that the imagery of men in games is not sexist.

Double standards are wrong.

[Lord_Valandil]

Saibh wrote...

Lord_Valandil wrote...

Oh, heavens. Mods. Devs.
A lock would be greatly appreciated.

I'm getting sick of this kind of discussions. This wasn't a thread to begin with another one.

This discussion was brought about by seeing the new screenshots--we are talking about the new material.

And yet, it has turned into another thread in which people complain about boobs sizes and idealized characters.

[Ympulse]

Double post.

Modifié par Ympulse, 05 novembre 2010 - 06:31 .

[Leonia]

I'd just leave it alone, Valandil. Anarya started a seperate thread to talk about the equipment system (which is sort of what this thread was about once everyone heard the podcast).