391 réponses à ce sujet

[Ympulse]

New thread for the current, derailed topic can be continued, here.



http://social.biowar...1/index/5179025

[addiction21]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

Oh, heavens. Mods. Devs.
A lock would be greatly appreciated.

I'm getting sick of this kind of discussions. This wasn't a thread to begin with another one.

If you have a problem you message the moderators.
You dont flail about in the thread about how you dont like the discussion taking place that is about the material in the podcast and the new screenshots that came with it.


As far as the podcast its not my ideal way to handle it but its acceptable even tho there are some lingering questions. Like is it just a single outfit the whole way thru, will their be different outfits that fit with the companions preferance, will the belts rings, or runes have some impact on the look of the outfit (outfits if there are more then one).

[the_one_54321]

In Exile wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...
I know that I've never had to deal with the image issues that women have. But I wonder how many of them literally got dragged out to the playground after school to be beaten up because they looked wimpy. Sexist imagery goes both ways. Double standards are wrong.

The thing is, even being stupidly in shape does not make you a beefcake depending on your natural physique. My hobby is rock-climbing. It takes me a month to get into proper shape during the summer, and I get at around 145 pounds (while being 5'7.5). Put a t-shirt on me, though, and I look like just about every other guy. Being in shape, and even being really ripped, doesn't make you massive.

This linebacker build that's so prominent in games isn't even the most common athletic frame for a guy, which is essentially my complaint. It's not that I want my video-game heroes to look like they're oveweight or super skinny. Just moderately athletic as opposed to beefcake (see Hawke's arms in his default armour, or the DA:O naked male mesh).

And no one ever bothers to even consider the hair thing. My genes render me incapable of growing facial hair that looks more than what a highschooler trying to grow his first mustache could grow. It's just not in my family. I can never grow a beard no matter how hard I try.

Modifié par the_one_54321, 05 novembre 2010 - 06:34 .

[Brockololly]

Can't say I'm too surprised they're shoving more ME2 into DA. As others have mentioned, this is just another bit of taking away player agency and choice in an RPG.

And I will bet anything that one of the DLC's will be more companion "outfits." Mark it down.

Goodbye Massive Armor Morrigan:

[Maria Caliban]

Thank goodness for that. The inability to make Morrigan someone's dress up doll can only be a good thing.

Addai67 wrote...

Because it's a roleplaying game.  I should have some flexibility to set an NPC follower's looks and characteristics the same way I choose how to level them.  Or are you really going to argue that auto-level is the way to go?  The devs know better about the NPC, after all?

I agree autoleveling is the way to go.

Have you ever played PnP RPGs? You control one character. One. That's the PC.

Why should you be able to set a companion's look? Can you decide what your friends wear?

"Sorry Ginger, I've decided I want you to wear jeans and a cowboy hat. Also, you know how you're studying to be a dentist? I've decided you're going to major in political science instead and become a lawyer."

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 05 novembre 2010 - 06:35 .

[SoulRebel_1979]

tdawg7669 wrote...

They ME2d the character's armors and outfits.

Well, that blows. 

[Addai]

In Exile wrote...

This linebacker build that's so prominent in games isn't even the most common athletic frame for a guy, which is essentially my complaint. It's not that I want my video-game heroes to look like they're oveweight or super skinny. Just moderately athletic as opposed to beefcake (see Hawke's arms in his default armour, or the DA:O naked male mesh).

Someone emblazon this in neon on the thread so we don't have to keep repeating it.

The difference is that the idealized male figure in the game looks like he actually can do what the PC is supposed to do- run, fight, kill stuff.  The idealized female figure in the game looks like she can realistically do nothing but stand around and be ogled.  Or lie around and be ogled.

I don't want couch potato males or ugly females.  I want a PC that I can look at without bursting into laughter or thinking I've stumbled into a porn flick.

[Lord_Valandil]

leonia42 wrote...

I'd just leave it alone, Valandil. Anarya started a seperate thread to talk about the equipment system (which is sort of what this thread was about once everyone heard the podcast).

Yeah, I guess. I'll leave it there and go to Anarya's thread.
It's the best thing to do.

[Fishy]

LOLOL



Oh sheesh that armor for morrigan .. SO out of character.

She probably think - Why it's hapenning to me?

[mellifera]

It's not a good look for her anyway >.> I don't mind though, as long as I can customize the NPC stats and Hawke's armor.



(Gah, I always feel like I have to emphasize "I")

[hexaligned]

What the hell? I leave for a few and this thread turns into another boob debate. Focus people, Podcast.

[Saibh]

the_one_54321 wrote...

No one is saying that the sexism against women doesn't exist. What is insulting here is that when a guy pipes up and says "well it's kind of sexist against men too" you all start rallying to tell us to shut up, that we've never lived through the issues that women have, that it's not the same thing, that we have no right to claim sexism against men. It's like you have a sense of entitlement. You have a right to complain. But we don't. We should just sit down and shut up.

Screw that.

If it's sexist against men, then darnit it is sexist against men. Acknowledge that, please. Is it as bad as the woman image? Maybe not. Is it applied the same way as the woman image? Maybe not. Has it been happening as long as the woman image? Maybe not. (that one is kind of debatable) I am more than willing to accept that the female image is sexualized and idealized and likely done so in a way that is often degrading to women. But you don't you tell me that I have never experienced sexism or that the imagery of men in games is not sexist.

Double standards are wrong.

I told you to shut up at least...eight times during this conversation, I recall.

I honestly don't think I'll get through to you any more than I could convince you that suicide isn't romantic. You just aren't going to see it anyone else's way. I--and many others--have explained the difference between the two. No one is saying that the version of male models isn't idealized unfairly.

But, the thing is it's not sexist, either. I don't like that word because it means that one sex believes the other is superior. This is a man's idea of what men should look like. The female models aren't sexist, either, but idealized unfairly.

Move here, though.

Modifié par Saibh, 05 novembre 2010 - 06:36 .

[Nozybidaj]

rexil wrote...

I didn't understand. Will there be different outfits for companions latter in the game or they will use always the "same" outfit?

I would guess it will end up being "do you want that in white or black" ala ME2.

[Addai]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Because it's a roleplaying game.  I should have some flexibility to set an NPC follower's looks and characteristics the same way I choose how to level them.  Or are you really going to argue that auto-level is the way to go?  The devs know better about the NPC, after all?

I agree autoleveling is the way to go.

Have you ever played PnP RPGs? You control one character. One. That's the PC.

Why should you be able to set a companion's look. Can you decide what your friends wear? "Sorry Ginger, I've decided I want you to wear jeans and a cowboy hat. Also, you know how you're studying to be a dentist? I've decided you're going to major in political science instead and become a lawyer."

So, you autoleveled in Origins?  Because if you did... LOL.  Your team must have sucked rocks.

I also can't tell Ginger to go over and kill that darkspawn using X attack and then take a potion, and then go stand over there and don't move.

Whatever that RPG is you mentioned, it's not DA.  DA is a tactical team RPG.

[Maria Caliban]

filaminstrel wrote...

I can't imagine Morrigan in anything other than Morrigan robes, to be honest. I never put her in anything else, and I've played quite a few playthroughs.

The same. That or the upgraded version.

"But *I* think it's pretty" is a good reason to dress your own character in it.

[Leonia]

Sooo just because you CAN put massive armour on Morrigan or force Alistair to dual-wield with leather armour, then there shouldn't be a customised look for those characters because that takes away choice in appearance/combat that probably isn't in-character for them to begin with? Am I following that right?

Those characters belong to the writers, not me. If I am making my own party, like in that one NWN 2 expansion (can't remember the name off-hand) then sure I can customise their look, their personalities, their armour, whatever because they are MY characters then. But when the writers and designers develop characters after much time and effort to be a certain way.. do you think they just want the players to strip that away in a few seconds and go "Nah, I don't care that that guy is supposed to be an archer, I'm going to go against the lore and make him a duelist that wears heavy platemail instead!"

You can still manually manage their stats without compromising their effective gear, I'm not sure why the autolevel thing keeps getting mentioned here.

Modifié par leonia42, 05 novembre 2010 - 06:38 .

[Sauronych]

So much for DA2 not being a fantasy version of ME.

[Luigitornado]

Pretty cool. I think they took a step in the right direction. Individuality is something that people really enjoyed about the characters in DA:O, and besides making the experience more streamlined, DA2 also makes the companions more individualistic.

I'm also happy that armor just doesn't play the role of being a new skin, like it is in ME2. You can still upgrade it, just in predetermined steps.

Modifié par Luigitornado, 05 novembre 2010 - 06:41 .

[Rawgrim]

Lets have auto combat in it as well. Since dumbing down seems to be the way to go.

[Saibh]

Rawgrim wrote...

Lets have auto combat in it as well. Since dumbing down seems to be the way to go.

Essentially, that's what tactics are.

[tmp7704]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Thank goodness for that. The inability to make Morrigan someone's dress up doll can only be a good thing.

She's still a dress-up doll. Except only one guy gets to pick what she wears.

Have you ever played PnP RPGs? You control one character. One. That's the PC.

Why should you be able to set a companion's look? Can you decide what your friends wear?

If you ever played PnP RPGs you'll remember the other characters have their own human controllers who make decisions for them.

In lack of these other live poeple managing their individual characters the one live person who plays the game makes decisions for multiple characters, effectively role-playing their individual choices.

Different platforms, different approach.

[Fishy]

leonia42 wrote...

Sooo just because you CAN put massive armour on Morrigan or force Alistair to dual-wield with leather armour, then there shouldn't be a customised look for those characters because that takes away choice in appearance/combat that probably isn't in-character for them to begin with? Am I following that right?

Those characters belong to the writers, not me. If I am making my own party, like in that one NWN 2 expansion (can't remember the name off-hand) then sure I can customise their look, their personalities, their armour, whatever because they are MY characters then. But when the writers and designers develop characters after much time and effort to be a certain way.. do you think they just want the players to strip that away in a few seconds and go "Nah, I don't care that that guy is supposed to be an archer, I'm going to go against the lore and make him a duelist that wears heavy platemail instead!"

You can still manually manage their stats without compromising their effective gear, I'm not sure why the autolevel thing keeps getting mentioned here.

It's would be like Ryu doing Sonic boom

[hexaligned]

Suprez30 wrote...

LOLOL

Oh sheesh that armor for morrigan .. SO out of character.
She probably think - Why it's hapenning to me?

I understand the viewpoint that the player shouldn't have controll over party members from an RP perspective, but at least persoanlly I care more about the game mechanics than I do the RP.  I'm not going to gripe if the RPers get something they want, cookies  for them, but it does lessen the game for people like me, especially the replay aspect of it.