1080 réponses à ce sujet

[Faz432]

Listening to the pod cast now.



This sucks so so bad!

[Perfect-Kenshin]

I haven't read enough of this thread, but exactly how many people actually LIKE this idea in comparison to those who DON'T like it?

[upsettingshorts]

Ryzaki wrote...

I don't mean to be mean but if a character needs an outfit to stand out well...something went wrong in the writing process.

I'm not the biggest fan of the changes but I don't think it's a reflection of "need."

The very concept of "fashion" is based on the idea that what one wears is a form of expression.  If what they wear is permanent or semi-permanent, it does effect our impression of the character.

Perfect-Kenshin wrote...

I haven't read enough of this thread, but exactly how many people actually LIKE this idea in comparison to those who DON'T like it?

On the forum?  I'd venture a guess and say a comfortable majority dislike it, on a variety of levels (from mild annoyance to complete rage) for a variety of reasons.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 06 novembre 2010 - 02:18 .

[Anarya]

Outfits are part of creating a character in entertainment forms. Theatre, comics, film, video games, even books all qualify.

If you've ever seen, for example, a rehearsal of a theatrical production versus a dress rehearsal of the same thing, this is an easy thing to see.

Modifié par Anarya, 06 novembre 2010 - 02:20 .

[slimgrin]

David Gaider wrote...

FieryDove wrote...
If you make the imaginary game I will buy it.

Deal! I'll make an imaginary game, and you can pay me with imaginary money-- and you'll have lots of imaginary fun with it, I'm sure. Or at least Sylvius will, as most of the fun he has with games appears to be imaginary anyhow.

Poor Sylvius is not even here to logically defend himself. 

Modifié par slimgrin, 06 novembre 2010 - 02:19 .

[upsettingshorts]

We all know Sylvius' arguments anyway - well at least I do.  To his credit, he is very consistent. I'm sure he'll be around at some point again anyway.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 06 novembre 2010 - 02:21 .

[Druss99]

Perfect-Kenshin wrote...

I haven't read enough of this thread, but exactly how many people actually LIKE this idea in comparison to those who DON'T like it?

I like the idea. While I do enjoy customising my companions on a tactical level I never liked the idea of playing dress up with them and telling them what to wear. On one hand I wouldn't be overly thrilled at losing all control over them but on the other I wouldn't object either. I could live with just having control over MY character and no one else.

But you would be better off creating a poll for this kind of thing I suppose.

[addiction21]

Perfect-Kenshin wrote...

I haven't read enough of this thread, but exactly how many people actually LIKE this idea in comparison to those who DON'T like it?

Not a fan of it but I will just reserve my final judgment of if it is good or not (in my opinion and for me) sometime in or after March.

[David Gaider]

Upsettingshorts wrote...
On the forum?  I'd venture a guess and say a comfortable majority dislike it, on a variety of levels (from mild annoyance to complete rage) for a variety of reasons.

Honestly, were we expecting anything else? It's not as bad as some make it out to be, but with any change you're going to encounter the most opposition (or, at least, trepidation) amongst those who are most invested in having everything remain exactly the same.

Regardless, this isn't a vote. The podcast was just meant to answer the question (which has come up) in as complete a way as possible, outlining the positives and negatives. If some choose to only look at the negatives, that's entirely up to them.

[Ryzaki]

Upsettingshorts wrote...


I'm not the biggest fan of the changes but I don't think it's a reflection of "need."

The very concept of "fashion" is based on the idea that what one wears is a form of expression.  If what they wear is permanent or semi-permanent, it does effect our impression of the character.

True that. I can't take Miranda and Jacob seriously half the time due to their outfits.

And why does Shep have to be completely in armor? Everyone else can wear clothes but I can't? Gah. *grumbles* <_< If someone else can have just a scarf and shirt on with knee high boots Hawke should also have the option to dress that way. It obviously doesn't impend on fighting ability.

Edit: Though yes I am aware my ranting isn't going to change the devs minds. So I'm going to be stuck either sucking it up, skipping out on characters or (hopefully) modding some better clothes on them.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 06 novembre 2010 - 02:29 .

[Maria Caliban]

Kilshrek wrote...

But anyway, from what I've heard the system sounds like PST, perhaps someone else would agree?

Indeed.

[mellifera]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

yukidama wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

yukidama wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Saibh wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Yes.  Amd I complained about that quite a lot.  I thought we should have been able to have any party member act as the party's spokesperson in conversation.

But...no matter what I do, I can't make Leliana a mage, or spec Morrigan as a rogue. I don't have full control over them. I have control only over what the devs gave me to begin with.

No but you could make her an assassin if you wanted to, or a ranger for some animal companion goodness. I still cannot fathom in the slightest why people would encourage removal of choice from an RPG.

I don't think it's being advocated for as much as people accepting that this is what BioWare did and finding benefits in it. I don't think they're going to change this because it's not ideal. It's not my favorite, but I'll accept it.

Why accept something that didn't need changing in the first place though? The only advocates for it are a very small minority, yet Bioware had no problem at all catering to them. Most likely because it meant less work for the art department, and a chance to sucker post point of sale cash for DLC outfits.

I can't believe I'm still this pissed off about it hours later, but since Origins was prolly my most favorite game in years thats prolly a good reason why.

Ugh. 

I accept it because firstly I don't see it as a gamebreaker and secondly because if they think that it works for their game they're not going to compromise that over some complaints on the forum of people who haven't seen how well it works (or doesn't) within the context of the game. I dunno, making individual outfits for NPCs seems like a lot more work than making a few templates and arbitrarily retinting them.  If this means more armor DLC... well, you don't have to purchase it. They're still a business, and as an individual you have a choice not to purchase their product.

Origins is probably one of my favorite games ever, but they're not changing Origins. I am fairly content with Origins staying where it is if they want to move beyond that. Then again, I don't like Origins for the fighting.

I played ME2, I saw how it worked. It sucked, plain and simple. Jack running head long into battle wearing next to nothing not only looked silly, but made very little sense.

Good on the art team getting an easy go of it though, nice for the bean counters at EA to sucker people out of money with DLC clothing as well. 

I'm sorry, this is not a design decision that I think should be encouraged.

Again, not encouraging it but accepting it because as Gaider said, it wasn't up for a vote. To put it bluntly, you can dislike it and rant all you want but it's not going to be changed because of it.

So I'd rather see the positives in it since  I personally do not think it is a deal breaking change.

[konfeta]

I've been following ME2, DA2, and Diablo 3's forums almost religiously.



The arguments and complaints against the developers for "dumbing down the game" and "removing choice" are so repetitive and cyclical it is becoming surreal. Every time the developers/CM people end up giving the exact same (and notice, reasonable) responses that get promptly ignored and forgotten by the next month when the arguments arise anew as if they were a phoenix. The best part is that responses are of the sort that should pacify a rational complaint immediately (and indeed do for many forum posters).



Is this an RPG fan thing or a universal human trait?

[Addai]

Collider wrote...

The benefit would be maintaining the companion's personality visually.
I honestly doubt playing dress up is something so vitally important to the enjoyment of the general audience.

You doubt that people who play RPGs like customization and player agency?  Why is it that you play an RPG?

[crimzontearz]

David Gaider wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...
On the forum?  I'd venture a guess and say a comfortable majority dislike it, on a variety of levels (from mild annoyance to complete rage) for a variety of reasons.

Honestly, were we expecting anything else? It's not as bad as some make it out to be, but with any change you're going to encounter the most opposition (or, at least, trepidation) amongst those who are most invested in having everything remain exactly the same.

Regardless, this isn't a vote. The podcast was just meant to answer the question (which has come up) in as complete a way as possible, outlining the positives and negatives. If some choose to only look at the negatives, that's entirely up to them.

so uhm.....David....just out of curiosity here, why not give people the choice?

I mean, why not handle followers like morrigan in DAO? one set of "individually relevant" outfit and then the choice to equip other things to satisfy both sides of the field

[Addai]

Ryzaki wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...


I'm not the biggest fan of the changes but I don't think it's a reflection of "need."

The very concept of "fashion" is based on the idea that what one wears is a form of expression.  If what they wear is permanent or semi-permanent, it does effect our impression of the character.

True that. I can't take Miranda and Jacob seriously half the time due to their outfits.

And female rogues and mages now exist solely to be T & A eye candy.  At least the NPCs.  I'm assuming femHawke is also a blood mage since she has the Nutella smear, so she at least gets to wear armor.

If we get a toolset, it will all be better.

[upsettingshorts]

Addai67 wrote...
You doubt that people who play RPGs like customization and player agency?  Why is it that you play an RPG?

If there was a flag that denoted "What is an RPG debate incoming" I'd be frantically waving it back and forth right about now.

[crimzontearz]

Addai67 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...


I'm not the biggest fan of the changes but I don't think it's a reflection of "need."

The very concept of "fashion" is based on the idea that what one wears is a form of expression.  If what they wear is permanent or semi-permanent, it does effect our impression of the character.

True that. I can't take Miranda and Jacob seriously half the time due to their outfits.

And female rogues and mages now exist solely to be T & A eye candy.  At least the NPCs.  I'm assuming femHawke is also a blood mage since she has the Nutella smear, so she at least gets to wear armor.

If we get a toolset, it will all be better.

mages wear robes...so unless they all start wearing tevinter fur fetish vestments they will not be eye candy.....

[Rykoth]

I support this change, if only for the fact in DA:O, you could make Morrigan dress up in a chantry robe.



Morrigan doesn't wear Chantry Robes. She wears her damn near topless rags.



See my point there? Characters have a favored "fashion" as it were. Let them have it.

[Kilshrek]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Kilshrek wrote...

But anyway, from what I've heard the system sounds like PST, perhaps someone else would agree?

Indeed.

Thank you, but reasonable voices are hard to hear sometimes, but I do have this :

There are times when the evidence gets trampled and the hunt is on

Torment only went on to be regarded as one of the best RPG's ever. Didn't have much of an inventory system, of course half the time you were expected to *talk/think* your way out of trouble. Don't see much of an option for negotiation with Darkspawn or irate Qunari, but the rest of the game hasn't been shown yet.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Addai67 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...


I'm not the biggest fan of the changes but I don't think it's a reflection of "need."

The very concept of "fashion" is based on the idea that what one wears is a form of expression.  If what they wear is permanent or semi-permanent, it does effect our impression of the character.

True that. I can't take Miranda and Jacob seriously half the time due to their outfits.

And female rogues and mages now exist solely to be T & A eye candy.  At least the NPCs.  I'm assuming femHawke is also a blood mage since she has the Nutella smear, so she at least gets to wear armor.

If we get a toolset, it will all be better.

We won't get a toolset, because that way people would mod around this ridiculous design decision and I'm sure that would hurt the DLC milk run potential on outfits.

[Collider]

I play Bioware RPGs for the story and the story decisions. Putting a chantry robe on Morrigan, of all people, had nothing to do with the story but had to do with stats. I had to sacrifice Morrigan's unique appearance for gameplay stats, which is something I should never have to do.



Morrigan maintaining her "Witch of the Wilds" look, on the other hand, does have to do with story and does fit her.

[crimzontearz]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...


I'm not the biggest fan of the changes but I don't think it's a reflection of "need."

The very concept of "fashion" is based on the idea that what one wears is a form of expression.  If what they wear is permanent or semi-permanent, it does effect our impression of the character.

True that. I can't take Miranda and Jacob seriously half the time due to their outfits.

And female rogues and mages now exist solely to be T & A eye candy.  At least the NPCs.  I'm assuming femHawke is also a blood mage since she has the Nutella smear, so she at least gets to wear armor.

If we get a toolset, it will all be better.

We won't get a toolset, because that way people would mod around this ridiculous design decision and I'm sure that would hurt the DLC milk run potential on outfits.

ouch that one was venomous

[Aermas]

Could they at least give us a small wardrobe to choose from? I want to but Isabela in leather armor, & Carver in field plate

[crimzontearz]

Collider wrote...

I play Bioware RPGs for the story and the story decisions. Putting a chantry robe on Morrigan, of all people, had nothing to do with the story but had to do with stats. I had to sacrifice Morrigan's unique appearance for gameplay stats, which is something I should never have to do.

Morrigan maintaining her "Witch of the Wilds" look, on the other hand, does have to do with story and does fit her.

so

story dictates that Isabela is a total moron who runs into a melee battle against a group of Qunari warriors with  a shirt, thigh high boots and a thong and nothing else  to protect her body from incoming attacks/arrows/whatever

sure

I TOTALLY buy that