611 réponses à ce sujet

[Shreav]

Yeah, I would have to agree.  This.

Modifié par iShreav, 06 novembre 2010 - 06:20 .

[Jayce]

Saibh wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Do people actually demand bigger boobs for characters?
Like did after ME1's release did people say "I'm shootin up all these bad guys but where the **** are all the boobs!?"

I asked that earlier, but didn't get much of a response. I mean, it's one thing to defend BioWare's choice, to not care, or to not mind the decision, but I wonder what reasons men have for wanting that model on females? I don't mean that in a patronizing way, but I am curious. It all seems to boil down to fan service, really.

The thing is, fan service isn't dependent on uber idealized models like Isabela's and Bethany's. Morrigan was fanservice, too.

I've said it time and again, there's a compromise to be had. Men, you can have your fan service and eye candy and women (and men) can have a more average figure for their female avatars.

It aesthetics. They look more physically attractive to a broader demographic that way. Is it sexist? IMO, yes and no.
It depends upon what expections you yourself bring to the character. To use a tangenital Mass Effect example: I generally play as a female Commander Shepard, partially because I like subverting the usual male action hero genre and partially because dislike the male Shepard. That's largely because I can't identify with either Mark Vanderloo's apperance or Mark Meer's voice.

So I can see where you're coming from but also disagree to an extent just because I can't identify with Male Shepard doesn't make it unrealistic or sexist ,it just makes him different from me.

Another thing. Seeing all these men clanking around in "practical armour" as you refer to it is no more realistic than seeing the women in next to nothing.

In the real world heavy plate armours, from either the gothic or italian schools, were meant to be worn while on horse back, they're very flexible but even an incredibly fit person would collapse from exhaustion trying to run and fight on foot after just a few minutes. (This is part of the reason an 8000 strong english army beat an 25000 french army at the Battle of Agincourt. By the time the french had waded through the ploughed muddy fields to the english lines they were worn out and easy pickings for men largely wearing nothing but woolen hose or leather tunics.) 

To be in combat and run around to the extent you do in Dragon Age, a scantily clad woman is probably the more practically attired!

[tmp7704]

Jayce F wrote...

In the real world heavy plate armours, from either the gothic or italian schools, were meant to be worn while on horse back, they're very flexible but even an incredibly fit person would collapse from exhaustion trying to run and fight on foot after just a few minutes.

That armour weighted less than modern soldiers' body armour (and was more evenly distributed over the whole body) yet these soldiers certainly don't collapse from exhaustion after just a few minutes...

[Shreav]

tmp7704 wrote...

Jayce F wrote...

In the real world heavy plate armours, from either the gothic or italian schools, were meant to be worn while on horse back, they're very flexible but even an incredibly fit person would collapse from exhaustion trying to run and fight on foot after just a few minutes.

That armour weighted less than modern soldiers' body armour (and was more evenly distributed over the whole body) yet these soldiers certainly don't collapse from exhaustion after just a few minutes...

You mean this stuff?

[upsettingshorts]

edit nm

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 06 novembre 2010 - 06:31 .

[Kroaks]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Exactly, hellooooo.... we are saying that we want to see women who look like they could actually run, jump and fight.  Because much as I might wish I were a Navy SEAL, I actually sit in a cubicle all day.

So yes, sure sure, video games allow me to be someone I'm not.  I just never, ever, ever, fantasize about being so top-heavy I could hardly walk.

Indeed. A woman can look
1: Normally proportioned
2: Muscular
3: And attractive

Gina Carano, MMA -


Many developers only go for attractive, and then a very fantasized version of it.

Thats not Gina Carano; this is Gina Carano:


http://en.wikipedia....iki/Gina_Carano

Who you posted is:

Well; actually I'm going on a brain fart right now but she was some kind of world champion and even beat men from what I remember.

[Aermas]

It would seem breast are a "big" issue

[Shreav]

Aermas wrote...

It would seem breast are a "big" issue

Heh, I see what you did there.

[tmp7704]

iShreav wrote...

You mean this stuff?

Technically, i was thinking of this but it's more or less the same, yes.

[Jayce]

tmp7704 wrote...

Jayce F wrote...

In the real world heavy plate armours, from either the gothic or italian schools, were meant to be worn while on horse back, they're very flexible but even an incredibly fit person would collapse from exhaustion trying to run and fight on foot after just a few minutes.

That armour weighted less than modern soldiers' body armour (and was more evenly distributed over the whole body) yet these soldiers certainly don't collapse from exhaustion after just a few minutes...

Yes they do. I'm speaking from personal experince having worn body armour in both Iraq and Afghanistan as well as a cold ans went winter in the UK. 

You can walk around in body armour all day but you sure as hell can't run in it for more than 5 minutes. Anyone who says otherwise is talking rubbish. Melee combat is even more physically demanding than a contact.

[g-vapen]

iShreav wrote...

Yeah, I would have to agree.  This.

She has a nice rack but I'll withhold judgement on Beth til I see her hips in a better angle.
But from what I seen from that lucca video, her hips would be.. gloriously mesmerizing.

[Shreav]

g-vapen wrote...

iShreav wrote...

Yeah, I would have to agree.  This.

She has a nice rack but I'll withhold judgement on Beth til I see her hips in a better angle.
But from what I seen from that lucca video, her hips would be.. gloriously mesmerizing.

She makes me think of corsets.

[tmp7704]

Jayce F wrote...

Yes they do. I'm speaking from personal experince having worn body armour in both Iraq and Afghanistan as well as a cold ans went winter in the UK. 

You can walk around in body armour all day but you sure as hell can't run in it for more than 5 minutes. Anyone who says otherwise is talking rubbish. Melee combat is even more physically demanding than a contact.

Wait, okay let me get it straight then. Are you saying that if fight broke out, all soldiers would universally after few minutes of it collapse from sheer physical exhaustion? How are they then supposed to ever advance more than few hundred meters in terrain where carriers won't do?

[Shreav]

tmp7704 wrote...

Jayce F wrote...

Yes they do. I'm speaking from personal experince having worn body armour in both Iraq and Afghanistan as well as a cold ans went winter in the UK. 

You can walk around in body armour all day but you sure as hell can't run in it for more than 5 minutes. Anyone who says otherwise is talking rubbish. Melee combat is even more physically demanding than a contact.

Wait, okay let me get it straight then. Are you saying that if fight broke out, all soldiers would universally after few minutes of it collapse from sheer physical exhaustion? How are they then supposed to ever advance more than few hundred meters in terrain where carriers won't do?

I believe that soldiers are trained to trek and build body muscle so as to be able to bear walking with heavy equipment.  I don't believe melee combat occurs unless in extreme circumstances.

[Aermas]

One can preform an "airborne shuffle" for a very long time. & also note that soldiers do not swing swords anymore, so they don't have great drains in their stamina.

[Saibh]

iShreav wrote...

I believe that soldiers are trained to trek and build body muscle so as to be able to bear walking with heavy equipment.  I don't believe melee combat occurs unless in extreme circumstances.

A soldier needs to be able to move easily and swiftly in full body armor. Yes, they usually don't swing swords around but it's a very common misconception that plate armor weighed hundreds of pounds or that swords weighed dozens. They did not.

This isn't even accounting for nonsensical materials like "silverite" or "veridium" which could weigh anything.

iShreav wrote...

Yeah, I would have to agree.  This.

This makes me want to pull out that comparion shot between Bethany, Ivy Valentine and Pamela Anderson that indicated that Bethany had a larger bust and a much smaller waist than Pamela, and was at least the same proportion as Ivy Valentine. If you really want me to get it, I will. The female body model is drastically disproportionate.

Honestly, it shocks me that people will try to argue that point, out of any of them. That they really aren't.

iShreav wrote...

She makes me think of corsets.

Are you saying you think she's wearing one? Heh, and I could also find my long-winded diatribe that her breasts are not going to look like that because she has a corset and that we know female models share the same body type. So unless every single one of them wears a corset...Which is another problem entirely.

Nor does it even look like she's wearing one.

[Shreav]

Hrm...  I'm just thinking, what about samurais?

[Aermas]

Samurai armor was made of wood.

[tmp7704]

iShreav wrote...

I believe that soldiers are trained to trek and build body muscle so as to be able to bear walking with heavy equipment.  I don't believe melee combat occurs unless in extreme circumstances.

Yes, i don't mean melee combat but simple acts of movement and other maneuvering which while under fire isn't going to be anything like casual walking. Even something as simple as need to move to location few street blocks down asap in situation where transport isn't available. If they're supposed to be incapable of that... well.

Modifié par tmp7704, 06 novembre 2010 - 07:19 .

[Jayce]

tmp7704 wrote...

Jayce F wrote...

Yes they do. I'm speaking from personal experince having worn body armour in both Iraq and Afghanistan as well as a cold ans went winter in the UK. 

You can walk around in body armour all day but you sure as hell can't run in it for more than 5 minutes. Anyone who says otherwise is talking rubbish. Melee combat is even more physically demanding than a contact.

Wait, okay let me get it straight then. Are you saying that if fight broke out, all soldiers would universally after few minutes of it collapse from sheer physical exhaustion? How are they then supposed to ever advance more than few hundred meters in terrain where carriers won't do?

Mot soldiers carry about 40lb of armour, 40lbs of ammuntion, coms, ECM, water, weapon, daysack with maybe another 40lbs. You can TAB (ie walk) all day long if you're fit enough. Crouching, kneeling or lying down and shooting at people is a lot less physically demanding than wacking sombody with a sword.

I've been on foot patrol from more ****ty little FOBs in Helmand than I care to count and after a few hours marching (usually with long pauses thanks to IEDs, plenty of contacts too) I'm knackered. Most of my section are knackered.
 
I sure as hell would not want to wear plate armour and physcally duel someone for more than a few minutes with out a break. You would be so physically spent, you would become feeble and ineffective.

[Aermas]

tmp7704 wrote...

iShreav wrote...

I believe that soldiers are trained to trek and build body muscle so as to be able to bear walking with heavy equipment.  I don't believe melee combat occurs unless in extreme circumstances.

Yes, i don't mean melee combat but simple acts of movement and other maneuvering which while under fire isn't going to be anything like casual walking. Even something as simple as need to move to location few street blocks down asap in situation where transport isn't available.

Put on full football gear & a full school backpack, that's about what they carry

[Shreav]

Saibh wrote...

A soldier needs to be able to move easily and swiftly in full body armor. Yes, they usually don't swing swords around but it's a very common misconception that plate armor weighed hundreds of pounds or that swords weighed dozens. They did not.

This isn't even accounting for nonsensical materials like "silverite" or "veridium" which could weigh anything.

Yes, you are right.  I don't believe that they weighed as much as is implied, by physical perception, in games like Dragon Age.  However, I believe that the body is exhausted in regards to maneuverability and temperature.  Swords are something I'm not sure about.  Knights would use greatswords, and people suggest that they weigh a lot.  I wouldn't know.

This makes me want to pull out that comparion shot between Bethany, Ivy Valentine and Pamela Anderson that indicated that Bethany had a larger bust and a much smaller waist than Pamela, and was at least the same proportion as Ivy Valentine. If you really want me to get it, I will. The female body model is drastically disproportionate.

Honestly, it shocks me that people will try to argue that point, out of any of them. That they really aren't.

From the moment I entered the thread, I think I agreed on this point.  At the same time, however, I don't care either way.  But, to be honest, if I had designed Bethany, she wouldn't look like that.

Are you saying you think she's wearing one? Heh, and I could also find my long-winded diatribe that her breasts are not going to look like that because she has a corset and that we know female models share the same body type. So unless every single one of them wears a corset...Which is another problem entirely.

Nor does it even look like she's wearing one.

I never thought she was wearing a corset.  I was just reminded of corsets when I looked at her waist.

Modifié par iShreav, 06 novembre 2010 - 07:22 .

[upsettingshorts]

Aermas wrote...
Put on full football gear & a full school backpack, that's about what they carry

Football pads - even the helmet - are pretty light, especially when compared with military grade body armor and a helmet.

Saibh wrote...

This makes me want to pull out that comparion shot between Bethany, Ivy Valentine and Pamela Anderson that indicated that Bethany had a larger bust and a much smaller waist than Pamela, and was at least the same proportion as Ivy Valentine. If you really want me to get it, I will. The female body model is drastically disproportionate.

I maintain Bethany looks basically like she has Diora Baird's build.  (Mildly NSFW link)  That being said, the idea of every woman in a fictional universe looking similar to an outlier like Diora is pretty absurd and quite obviously fanservice.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 06 novembre 2010 - 07:24 .

[Shreav]

Aermas wrote...

Samurai armor was made of wood.

Ah!  The more you know!

Cheers.  =D

[Saibh]

Jayce F wrote...

Mot soldiers carry about 40lb of armour, 40lbs of ammuntion, coms, ECM, water, weapon, daysack with maybe another 40lbs. You can TAB (ie walk) all day long if you're fit enough. Crouching, kneeling or lying down and shooting at people is a lot less physically demanding than wacking sombody with a sword.

I've been on foot patrol from more ****ty little FOBs in Helmand than I care to count and after a few hours marching (usually with long pauses thanks to IEDs, plenty of contacts too) I'm knackered. Most of my section are knackered.
 
I sure as hell would not want to wear plate armour and physcally duel someone for more than a few minutes with out a break. You would be so physically spent, you would become feeble and ineffective.

But here's the thing: plate armor is not only lighter than your body armor and equipment, it's more evenly distributed over the body. This is the misconception, that it's somehow horrendously heavier, and it isn't. As I said, almost none of the types of metal excusing "steel" and "iron" actually exist in real life. It's impossible to know how much they weigh.