611 réponses à ce sujet

[Saibh]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

81433 downloads. Depends on one's definition of a lot, it seems.

I edited in for clarity--implemented full time in a BioWare vanilla game, not just as a guilty pleasure for people who've played it several times.

And if that's what we all really want...I mean...I...really?

Hm. Also, it's ~20,000 unique downloads, since the site wants to account for people who download new versions, patches, different sets of the same mod, and failed or corrupted downloads.

Modifié par Saibh, 06 novembre 2010 - 07:54 .

[upsettingshorts]

iShreav wrote...

I'm at work, so I'm not clicking on the link. xD

Think the idea of chainmail bikinis taken to a pornographic extreme.

Saibh wrote...
And if that's what we all really want...I mean...I...really?

I think the graphic animated sex mods are worse. 

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 06 novembre 2010 - 07:55 .

[mellifera]

If we go by mods as an indicator of what the community wants.... I don't even want to think about it. I'm still scarred by the "Ultra Pornstar Body" mod. Whyyyyy?

[Aermas]

iShreav wrote...

I'm at work, so I'm not clicking on the link. xD

Unless you log in to your account it won't show anything, I'm sad I don't have an account right now

[Saibh]

yukidama wrote...

If we go by mods as an indicator of what the community wants.... I don't even want to think about it. I'm still scarred by the "Ultra Pornstar Body" mod. Whyyyyy?

Unforunately, I have to look this up now.

Thanks Yuki.

I totally appreciate it.

[tmp7704]

Jayce F wrote...

You'd ideally ride in it and you'd fight from horseback and once your lance was done skewering some poor sod, you'd use your horse's speed to bugger off for a breather and a new lance.

That's uhmm... very much at odds with other info, it'd seem

"The heavy cavalry charge itself was not a common occurrence in warfare.[26] (..) Pitched battles were sometimes unavoidable, but were rarely fought on land suitable for heavy cavalry. While mounted riders remained effective for initial attacks,[29] by the fourteenth century, it was common for knights to dismount to fight.[30] Horses were sent to the rear, and kept ready for pursuit.[31] By the Late Middle Ages (approx 1300-1550), large battles became more common, probably because of the success of infantry tactics and changes in weaponry.[32] However, because such tactics left the knight unmounted, the role of the war horse also changed. By the 17th century, the medieval charger had become a thing of the past, replaced by lighter, unarmoured horses."

... wouldn't you agree that if fight on foot in plate armour was such strenuous experience, it seems odd then it'd be common for people to fight in this manner rather than the ideal way you suggest?

(http://en.wikipedia....Medieval_horses yes, yes, wikipedia but well, it does cite the sources)

Modifié par tmp7704, 06 novembre 2010 - 07:57 .

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

Dave of Canada wrote...
They'd have a far more supportive waist and build, they'd also be uncommon instead of something you'd see by turning around.

"And your waist... is... very supportive."

Good points made there, Dave.

I suppose I should deposit my requisite two cents as a lady gamer but... I don't really care. The borderline breast complex society has these days is so massive, engrained, multifaceted and absurd that it's hardly worth expecting a video game to take a side. There is no good or bad breast. The breasts ended up being large. They were pretty hefty in Origins too.

I agree with Sheryl that the important part is that the personalities. You're never going to get the variety of body shapes and styles in a video game as you would in real life, so the part that matters is whether the personalities of the characters fairly reflect (some) women, lifestyles, attitudes etc. Concerns about fanservice etc are valid but DA is not the only IP with unrealistically endowed women.

Modifié par Pseudocognition, 06 novembre 2010 - 07:58 .

[Jayce]

Silly sex mods like that are largely dld by pre-pubescent boys or adults as a joke. It's not like that kind of thing is gender resticted either. *Points to the heaving mass of homoerotic slash that's out there.*

[upsettingshorts]

yukidama wrote...

If we go by mods as an indicator of what the community wants.... I don't even want to think about it. I'm still scarred by the "Ultra Pornstar Body" mod. Whyyyyy?

None of the pornstars I like have bodies that loo.... I mean.  If... I watched...

Anyway I do add teh "nude mods" to my games, but only once there are good ones out for men and women, and then I take ones with fairly modest proportions.  More because the underwear annoys me and I value consistency and not really some kind of fetishistic compulsion.

And even then, I typically end up uninstalling it after a time.  I think I just can't decide which kills my immersion more, the underwear or the nudity.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 06 novembre 2010 - 08:00 .

[Saibh]

Pseudocognition wrote...

"And your waist... is... very supportive."

Good points made there, Dave.

I suppose I should deposite my requisite two cents as a lady gamer but... I don't really care. The borderline breast complex society has these days is so massive, engrained, multifaceted and absurd that it's hardly worth expecting a video game to take a side. There is no good or bad breast. The breasts ended up being large. They were pretty hefty in Origins too.

I agree with Sheryl that the important part is that the personalities. You're never going to get the variety of body shapes and styles in a video game as you would in real life, so the part that matters is whether the personalities of the characters fairly reflect (some) women, lifestyles, attitudes etc. Concerns about fanservice etc are valid but DA is not the only IP with unrealistically endowed women.

I'm not sure I get what you're saying. So what if they're not the only ones? I...I mean, how does that justify it at all?

DA is my favorite game, and if I can push for a better experience for me personally that does not compromise other player's experiences (well, some of them and not too much), I don't see why I can't. It doesn't get you, but it sure gets me.

I'm not sure calling it a complex is very fair.

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

Saibh wrote...

I'm not sure I get what you're saying. So what if they're not the only ones? I...I mean, how does that justify it at all?

DA is my favorite game, and if I can push for a better experience for me personally that does not compromise other player's experiences (well, some of them and not too much), I don't see why I can't. It doesn't get you, but it sure gets me.

I'm not sure calling it a complex is very fair.

I just mean that it's a persistent problem across the board in all media in most parts of the world. DA has been exceptional in making female characters that don't take ****, and that's enough for me, when the world is plauged by an unrealistic and unhealthy beauty standard. I don't intend to justify the breasts, but I think the source of the problem is not to be found here or anywhere, as it is a prevalent though unfair cultural attitude.

I sympathise with it being an issue for you. I would be right there with you if I hadn't had much practice ignoring it.

I say complex, probably incorrectly, because of the ridiculous and stark juxtaposition between the foundation of the cultural obsession (sexy! funbags! bigger means more womanly/sexy!) and what they're there for (feeding babies.) I've heard stories where women have refused to breastfeed because they lump (no pun intended) breasts in with other sex organs. Edit: okay, complex is only partially the right word. I could go into a semi-informed rant about how sexualizing breasts means hiding breasts means generating an obsession with breasts but, not the right venue. Emphasis on semi-informed, I'm not a practiced debater and my evidence is limited to the entertainment industry and anecdotes.

Modifié par Pseudocognition, 06 novembre 2010 - 08:22 .

[Jayce]

tmp7704 wrote...

Jayce F wrote...

You'd ideally ride in it and you'd fight from horseback and once your lance was done skewering some poor sod, you'd use your horse's speed to bugger off for a breather and a new lance.

That's uhmm... very much at odds with other info, it'd seem

"The heavy cavalry charge itself was not a common occurrence in warfare.[26] (..)

True. Seige warfare was the norm for the most part. 
 

Pitched battles were sometimes unavoidable, but were rarely fought on land suitable for heavy cavalry. While mounted riders remained effective for initial attacks,[29]

Chargers were not common because seige warfare was. That said charges were by no means rare. Crecy and Poitiers were both spearheaded by heavy cavalry charges, Stirling Bridge is another. I can think of dozens from the 100 years war alone off the top of my head.
 

by the fourteenth century, it was common for knights to dismount to fight.[30] Horses were sent to the rear, and kept ready for pursuit.[31]

I'd disagree with this statement. Foot combat became more common due to the use of pikemen and longbows plate armour evolved in response to the rise of these weapons indeed, even a 120lb draw weight longbow couldn't penetrate plate at anything over 20 yards.

By the Late Middle Ages (approx 1300-1550), large battles became more common, probably because of the success of infantry tactics and changes in weaponry.[32] However, because such tactics left the knight unmounted, the role of the war horse also changed. By the 17th century, the medieval charger had become a thing of the past, replaced by lighter, unarmoured horses."

Thats pretty poorly worded by whoever wrote that on wikipedia. by the 17th century plate mail had been rendered obsolete because of firearms and just how impractical it could be to wear.

... wouldn't you agree that if fight on foot in plate armour was such strenuous experience, it seems odd then it'd be common for people to fight in this manner rather than the ideal way you suggest?

(http://en.wikipedia....Medieval_horses yes, yes, wikipedia but well, it does cite the sources)

I'd disagree due to the points raised above. By the 17th century, cavarly rarely wore more armour than a cuirass (breast plate) and god help you if you sugested to a cavalryman that he should dismount!

Modifié par Jayce F, 06 novembre 2010 - 08:19 .

[upsettingshorts]

Pseudocognition wrote...
I say complex, probably incorrectly, because of the ridiculous and stark juxtaposition between the foundation of the cultural obsession (sexy! funbags! bigger means more womanly/sexy!) and what they're there for (feeding babies.)

And womens' wider hips in relation to their waists is to facilitate birth.  I don't think that finding exceptional - in the strictest sense of the term - secondary sex characteristics attractive warrants the label ridiculous. 

But!

Your point about the unrealistic and indeed unhealthy beauty standard is spot on.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 06 novembre 2010 - 08:37 .

[ladyofpayne]

I will change Isy armor and face. But F Howke very cool, I take her.

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

And womens' wider hips in relation to their waists is to facilitate birth.  I don't think that finding exceptional - in the strictest sense of the term - sexual secondary characteristics attractive warrants the label ridiculous. 

But!

Your point about the unrealistic and indeed unhealthy beauty standard is spot on.

Sorry for the use of the word ridiculous. I meant it in the sense that they're presented and coveted as precious playthings for your significant other, when they're really not that big of a deal. It is, however, becoming increasingly ridiculous of me to fantasize about a world where along with wising up and ignoring the hormones that tell us to reproduce as young and as frequently as possible, we can disregard breasts as some kind of sacred sign of womanhood.

I've driven this into some sort of feminist area. How it relates to the general breastliness of DA2, for me at least, is that... a breast is a breast is a breast, and technical limitations are going to hamper just about everything, so if there's one bust size to rule them all, well, it's bound to be affected by the cultural attitudes at large. And that doesn't bother me because it's not Bioware's fault, and they do a delicious job of presenting a broad array of men and women of different backgrounds and outlooks which is, ultimately, the more important part to me. Even if they all have large breasts.

Modifié par Pseudocognition, 06 novembre 2010 - 08:48 .

[upsettingshorts]

Pseudocognition wrote...
I meant it in the sense that they're presented and coveted as precious playthings for your significant other, when they're really not that big of a deal. It is, however, becoming increasingly ridiculous of me to fantasize about a world where along with wising up and ignoring the hormones that tell us to reproduce as young and as frequently as possible, we can disregard breasts as some kind of sacred sign of womanhood.

I'm not sure that's possible, I mean, to change society's most basic "standards of beauty" but I do think we can and should exercise a little critical thinking and intelligence and get rid of a lot of the most unhealty and unrealistic aspects - if that makes sense.

I mean, any time I see the kind of world where hormonal passions are stripped away - like in Star Trek: The Next Generation - it always strikes me as unreal, cold, and somewhat inhuman. 

There's got to be a mature middle ground.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 06 novembre 2010 - 08:51 .

[Lukertin]

It is possible to change society's basic standards of beauty. 50 years ago, people weren't obsessed with women being skinny anorexic boyish stick figures. Then...tragedy struck.

[upsettingshorts]

Lukertin wrote...

It is possible to change society's basic standards of beauty. 50 years ago, people weren't obsessed with women being skinny anorexic boyish stick figures. Then...tragedy struck.

That was just the fashion and entertainment industry, which of course has quite a bit a ton of influence.  How many guys were literally cracking open beers and talking about how hot Kate Moss was?  That's not the problem though, the problem is the standards women think they have to live up to, regardless of it being supported or unsupported by the average male.  Now it's unrealistically proportioned Victoria's Secret models that are both curvy and skinny.  I'm talking about the standards for "normal people."  That phase is long over anyway. 

Anyway, I mean the most basic standards.  I can't recall a time when the basic standards didn't in some way value the secondary sex characteristics of both sexes.  The standards for women have, though, gotten kind of absurd. 

The history nerd in me entertains the notion that this is because when a culture is in decline they become obsessed with sex.  But then, I haven't really thought that one through.  

After typing all this up I realize how completely out of my element I am on this debate and should probably expect to get panned.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 06 novembre 2010 - 09:01 .

[GodWood]

Dave of Canada wrote...
My Cousin developed big breasts early on and was always troubled by them, she could never join athletics or do any activity that required a lot of movement because they'd cause her a lot of pain when moving around. She toughed it out.

At around 22, she had started to have trouble sleeping at night and was incapable of walking correctly because of her breasts causing a lot of back pain. She was said my the doctors that she shouldn't sleep on her back or her breasts could (literally) kill her by stopping oxygen flow.

She had them removed and felt liberated, doing the things she missed out as a child. While I know this is a fantasy universe, my suspicious of disbelief is challenged heavily when we've got women that have gigantic breasts leaping around and prancing in the meadow of darkspawn gore.

My suspicious of disbelief is FURTHER challenged when you need to consider that those breasts are considered huge by today's standard where growth hormones in our food and implants are now commonplace. While it wasn't impossible for a woman to have breasts of that size in say... Medieval England, their waists wouldn't be the size of women you'd see nowadays. They'd have a far more supportive waist and build, they'd also be uncommon instead of something you'd see by turning around.

I'm not a fan of fan service (ironic, isn't it?) and this sort of thing does tend to hurt one's sense of realism in the world. If the ladies of Dragon Age 2 had their cup sizes reduced, they'd still be considered "fan service" material and normal to people who don't want such proportions. Morrigan for example had smaller breasts than the rest of the Origins cast, however she was still loved by the masses.

There is a middle that can be struck here between both sides.

Excellent post.

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Pseudocognition wrote...
I meant it in the sense that they're presented and coveted as precious playthings for your significant other, when they're really not that big of a deal. It is, however, becoming increasingly ridiculous of me to fantasize about a world where along with wising up and ignoring the hormones that tell us to reproduce as young and as frequently as possible, we can disregard breasts as some kind of sacred sign of womanhood.

I'm not sure that's possible, I mean, to change society's most basic "standards of beauty" but I do think we can and should exercise a little critical thinking and intelligence and get rid of a lot of the most unhealty and unrealistic aspects - if that makes sense.

I mean, any time I see the kind of world where hormonal passions are stripped away - like in Star Trek: The Next Generation - it always strikes me as unreal, cold, and somewhat inhuman. 

There's got to be a mature middle ground.

I hope I don't sound like I'm talking in extremes, it's 2 AM and I'm trying extra hard to write what I mean but it might not be working. I guess the middle ground would be moderate breast size in this scenario? For all we know they went with the best looking female model someone created and it happened to have large breasts and nobody looked twice after that, and one could feasibly attribute a dozen unspoken social factors into that hypothetical scenario. I really do like to think that they're not deliberately trying to make the female gamers uncomfortable. I suppose I'm lucky in that it doesn't bother me.

Modifié par Pseudocognition, 06 novembre 2010 - 09:07 .

[upsettingshorts]

That's fair.

Meh, I just don't know anyone who complained about Mass Effect 1's female models. The armor was still stylistically feminine, but not to the point of absurdity. Even if Ashley's pink armor was silly. Don't know why they didn't stick with that approach.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 06 novembre 2010 - 09:09 .

[Lukertin]

But what do you consider 'moderate' breast size? It ranges from like, averaging B in east asian countries, to like DD in Great Britain.

Modifié par Lukertin, 06 novembre 2010 - 09:12 .

[upsettingshorts]

Lukertin wrote...

But what do you consider 'moderate' breast size?

I think it would be easier to say what I'd consider needlessly excessive, obvious fanservice breast size.

And to do that I'm going to quote the late Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart:  "I know it when I see it."

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

Bodyswapped armor... mehhhh..
There was a fair range of bust size in ME2, actually, YMMV on the outfits but that's been discussed to death, then beaten back to life, then killed again. Origins was generous of breast, but I suspect that maybe had something to do with the otherwise masculine builds? Haven't got a clue, wish I did. Viva most common superpower!

Off to bed I go, the crazy is coming out.

Modifié par Pseudocognition, 06 novembre 2010 - 09:22 .

[Bio Addict]

Lukertin wrote...

But what do you consider 'moderate' breast size? It ranges from like, averaging B in east asian countries, to like DD in Great Britain.

The average breast size is DD in Great Britain?  What a country!!