Aller au contenu

Photo

Female models, meshes and textures discussion


611 réponses à ce sujet

#501
mellifera

mellifera
  • Members
  • 10 061 messages

Addai67 wrote...

yukidama wrote...

If we go by mods as an indicator of what the community wants.... I don't even want to think about it. I'm still scarred by the "Ultra Pornstar Body" mod. Whyyyyy?

Not even searching that.  Not.

Even just looking at Morrigan fanart, though... yeesh.  I mean, Morrigan is perfectly sexy the way she is, without implants, but some apparently like balloons.

Eh well, I don't expect men to get the whole naked Alistair in a thane helmet thing, either.


I frankly don't get it either, but it is amusing nonetheless xD

#502
Zep Rowsdower

Zep Rowsdower
  • Members
  • 118 messages

yukidama wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
Eh well, I don't expect men to get the whole naked Alistair in a thane helmet thing, either.


I frankly don't get it either, but it is amusing nonetheless xD

I don't get it either, but that's mostly because it's Alistair. I do however forbid Zevran from wearing pants. Just picked up the Felon's Coat? It's off to the Winter Forge to make it look like Dalish armor!

#503
Maria Caliban

Maria Caliban
  • Members
  • 26 094 messages

ziggehunderslash wrote...

That seems a little back to front. Fantasy and sci-fi have a long history of over sexualisation, largely, well because it's general target audience has primarily been teenage boys.


When it comes to fiction, the majority of fantasy readers are female, even for tolkienisque fantasy. The majority of science fiction readers used to be male, but that's currently only true of the 'hard' science fiction genre, which tends to have less sexualization than space opera, etc.

At this time, 60-75% of fiction buyers are women. That number will likely only increase over time because the number of teenage boys claim to enjoy reading is steadily decreasing.

If the genre seems aimed more at men than women, there are something things to remember.
1. Women have little problem picking up something that's aimed while men dislike picking up something that's aimed at women.
2. Men are more likely to see a movie the opening week and are more likely to buy merchandise related to a movies, tv shows, and books they like.

These two facts have a strong impact on the way fantasy and science fiction works are created and marketed.

#504
Enshaid

Enshaid
  • Members
  • 807 messages

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

SaberBloodwork wrote...

Yenaquai wrote...

Image IPB


Thoughts?


it looks MUCH better than the first picture. She seems healthier, still very attractive
and certainly more believable. I wish BW took your route instead of following
what other games are doing to the female characters’ models.


Just to drop in here, I find it interesting that no one ever stops to wonder if, perhaps, Varric were prone to exaggerating more than just facts about Hawke...

I suppose time will tell, but there might be a few surprises in store for the keen of eye.

Image IPB.....Are you serious? Is he serious?
mind=blown
I CAN HAZ DEV CONFIRMATION?!?!?

#505
Ziggeh

Ziggeh
  • Members
  • 4 360 messages

Zep Rowsdower wrote...
See, the problem is

Sci-fi and fantasy are for boys, so that rules out a lot of movies and tv shows. Then comics are for boys and video games are for boys and WHOOPS pretty much everything is for boys

Just because men may like it doesn't make sexism okay.

Yeah, I should have probably qualified that some more to avoid this kind of confusion. I ain't saying: "it's not for you, live with it", I was explaining why there is a history of overtly sexual female figures within the genre. Seven of Nine is the classic example, but they're pretty much everwhere you look.

Now that audience has changed, horny boys probably still are the core audience, but they're definitely not the sole, as they were considered to be maybe twenty odd years ago. Take a look at any modern sci-fi series and it's likely it bears a close resemblance to the soap opera in narrative structure, this has been a very positive effect of the changing audience makeup, sci-fi tv has rarely been stronger.

But no matter how it might change the "language" is still there, it might get played with and subverted, but like any other genre, it's carrying it's baggage (and in fact, relies upon it for narrative weight), it's semiotic symbolism, the big busted female is an archetype of the genre.

Does this make objectification of women okay? Of course not. Does following the standards of previous fantasy works (ie: giving Bethany big boobs) constitute objectification? Open to debate, but I really don't believe so, I think it's a lot more complex than that. Does the fact that objectification exists make the desire to see attractive figures in games wrong? I'd say no, but we don't seem to be smart enough as a species to have one without the other.

#506
Ziggeh

Ziggeh
  • Members
  • 4 360 messages

Maria Caliban wrote...

When it comes to fiction, the majority of fantasy readers are female, even for tolkienisque fantasy. The majority of science fiction readers used to be male, but that's currently only true of the 'hard' science fiction genre, which tends to have less sexualization than space opera, etc.

At this time, 60-75% of fiction buyers are women. That number will likely only increase over time because the number of teenage boys claim to enjoy reading is steadily decreasing.

See above, it's very much that it's a historical hang on rather than a distinct current trend. That said, I should have added the caveat that my statement didn't include literary fiction, which has less to do with the visual language of the genre.

Maria Caliban wrote...

These two facts have a strong impact on the way fantasy and science fiction works are created and marketed.

All life flows according to the whims of market forces. It's often unpleasant, but almost always true.

#507
Chaos Lord Malek

Chaos Lord Malek
  • Members
  • 735 messages

slimgrin wrote...

Chaos Lord Malek wrote...

 i seen some people having here Witcher signatures, and in that game - EVERY women is 'busty' pornstars.




http://t1.gstatic.co...7dqlkIkn8Ktk6c=


Maybe,
but she's covered up. Who knows, with all the sexism Bioware is putting
into DA2, some players may end up taking refuge in the notorious
Witcher franchise. 

/sarcasm



That's at the start in swamps, or where it is. And moments later she is naked with Geralt in lake. Besides that - all the sorceress in Witcher are carring very little - you forget her clothing from first part? That's not going to last.

I am not saying that the Bioware should take everything from witcher, or that every female  character should be like that. Just that i like what Bioware done so far.

Modifié par Chaos Lord Malek, 06 novembre 2010 - 10:14 .


#508
SaberBloodwork

SaberBloodwork
  • Members
  • 104 messages

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

SaberBloodwork wrote...


it looks MUCH better than the first picture. She seems healthier, still very attractive
and certainly more believable. I wish BW took your route instead of following
what other games are doing to the female characters’ models.


Just to drop in here, I find it interesting that no one ever stops to wonder if, perhaps, Varric were prone to exaggerating more than just facts about Hawke...

I suppose time will tell, but there might be a few surprises in store for the keen of eye.




I'll die happy, if that's the case. So far I don't mind any of the changes besides this one, so it would be simply great to know that we were worrying about this unnecessarily.

Modifié par SaberBloodwork, 06 novembre 2010 - 10:19 .


#509
Zep Rowsdower

Zep Rowsdower
  • Members
  • 118 messages

ziggehunderslash wrote...

Does this make objectification of women okay? Of course not. Does following the standards of previous fantasy works (ie: giving Bethany big boobs) constitute objectification? Open to debate, but I really don't believe so, I think it's a lot more complex than that.

It's really not. Just because it's been done before doesn't magically make it not objectification. In fact, it being so heavily ingrained into the genre (really every genre ever) -- and thus ingrained in most people's minds -- makes it more imperative to trash it.

Just look at all the guys who will rip a woman apart for not being flawless. Where do you think that comes from?

Does the fact that objectification exists make the desire to see attractive figures in games wrong? I'd say no, but we don't seem to be smart enough as a species to have one without the other.

I'm not saying NO PRETTY LADIES EVER! I don't think anyone is. But yes, you can have attractive women without it being objectifying. It's just that no one ever seems to try and instead goes straight for the plunging neckline, huge ******, scantily clad we-have-no-respect-for-women-whatsoever kind of look.

What it comes down to, I think, is "Does this fit the character?". I don't mind Isabela being large-chested and wearing a ridiculous outfit, because it fits her. (And really her outfit isn't all that bad. She could have gotten high heels.) But I wouldn't want my Hawke to have the same build and outift because it wouldn't fit her.

EDIT: But I will give Bioware this: They seem to have ditched the plunging neckline on the female light armor, thankfully.

Image IPB

Modifié par Zep Rowsdower, 06 novembre 2010 - 10:38 .


#510
slimgrin

slimgrin
  • Members
  • 12 466 messages

Chaos Lord Malek wrote...


I am not saying that the Bioware should take everything from witcher, or that every female  character should be like that. Just that i like what Bioware done so far.


As do I.

Modifié par slimgrin, 06 novembre 2010 - 10:41 .


#511
Ziggeh

Ziggeh
  • Members
  • 4 360 messages

Zep Rowsdower wrote...

It's really not. Just because it's been done before doesn't magically make it not objectification

It's not magic. It's language. (which is really kind of the same thing, but that's semantic)

I tried to cover this a few pages back so I won't go on, but in short: exaggerated sexuality in fantasy exists (alongside the male gaze thing) for the same reason as stereotypes: they're a useful storytelling tool that very quickly covers how you want a character to be percieved without having to describe it.

Using cultural stereotypes isn't racism, it's shorthand, but assuming that stereotype is a realist representation is. Which rather leads us to:

Zep Rowsdower wrote...
Just look at all the guys who will rip a woman apart for not being flawless. Where do you think that comes from?

Morons. And bullies, probably mostly bullies.

I'm not saying the body image thing isn't an issue, clearly it is, we have a whole thread going here for one. But I believe the issue at hand is an effect of cultural sexual imagery and not a cause. I think the main cause is moron's not understanding the difference between fantasy and reality, between marketing and people. This is a bit of a bummer and there are an awful lot of morons, we're grossly outnumbered.

Zep Rowsdower wrote...
But yes, you can have attractive women without it being objectifying. It's just that no one ever seems to try and instead goes straight for the plunging neckline, huge ******, scantily clad we-have-no-respect-for-women-whatsoever kind of look.

Again, langauge. You don't try to reinvent words as you use them, and people who are selling an idea with images rarely try to reinvent their particular wheel. I think we'd all commend them for trying, and hey, I agree it's worth an ask, but I wouldn't expect someone to not use the readily available tools of their trade. Also if you want your ingame fantasy heroine to be percieved as sexual you have to compete with peoples predefined notion of fantasy gaming sexuality, which I believe is somewhat seperate from any real world one, though probably not enough. Somewhat warped that it is.

#512
Weltenschlange

Weltenschlange
  • Members
  • 219 messages

Maria Caliban wrote...

pizoxuat wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Second one looks malnourished, decadent, and boring. Not only her looks, but her character has suffered as well. I'm glad Bioware has their priorities together.

Edit: just read Laidlaw's post. Looks like the agenda for anemic figures has won. :(

Beginning not to like the whole exaggeration bit.

I think she looks lovely, destitute, and lamp.  Seriously, could you have come up with three more disconnected descriptors there?


You took my response! Random Word Generator says she looks "selfish, unsatisfactory, and ludicrous."


Wow, that Random Word Generator is awesome! :D Thank your for the link.
BTW - Would you mind telling me where your current Avatar-picture is from? I like it very much, it looks so renunciant and implicative.

#513
Saibh

Saibh
  • Members
  • 8 071 messages

slimgrin wrote...

Chaos Lord Malek wrote...


I am not saying that the Bioware should take everything from witcher, or that every female  character should be like that. Just that i like what Bioware done so far.


As do I.


You know what I just realized--this is a new profile. What happened to the old one?

Are you even the same person? :o

#514
Weltenschlange

Weltenschlange
  • Members
  • 219 messages

Zep Rowsdower wrote...

[...]But I will give Bioware this: They seem to have ditched the plunging neckline on the female light armor, thankfully.

Image IPB


Thank the maker!
:)

#515
slimgrin

slimgrin
  • Members
  • 12 466 messages

Saibh wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Chaos Lord Malek wrote...


I am not saying that the Bioware should take everything from witcher, or that every female  character should be like that. Just that i like what Bioware done so far.


As do I.


You know what I just realized--this is a new profile. What happened to the old one?

Are you even the same person? :o


Yes. Or this is my doppelganger speaking. Whichever is more likely.

#516
Wynne

Wynne
  • Members
  • 1 612 messages
Ideally, there should always be a fine balance for both genders. Pleasing to the eye, yet realistic and subtle-- steroidal or plastic surgery style bodies are just cheesy and tasteless.

You want the player to feel like they can wander around in the world and either feel like they do not stand out, or that they stand out in a way that pleases them. If you can't give choice, then you should present the sort of image you would see around you every day that would make a person think, "Oh, that's a nice figure for a man/woman" and not think, "Ugh, they're rather emaciated/obese" or "Ugh, they look like they've been touched up with bronzer/ botox/by a plastic surgeon/by a personal trainer with access to drugs." 

Barring the more extreme threats like child abuse, third world hunger, serial murders and rapes, etc., there is little that disgusts me more about modern society than the obsession with eradicating everything human by bleaching and tanning and liposucking ourselves to death. Sure, obesity is unhealthy, but it's been proven in numerous scientific studies that a bit of extra weight is actually much healthier for a person than underweight. It disturbs me that people are so willing to starve themselves and stick needles in themselves just because tv people do it a lot. Sure, everybody should know better, but teenagers sure don't, and not everyone who's older than that is as wise as they should be either. So I vigorously support every example I see of a healthy, normal human being who takes care of themself in a positive way--a way which doesn't include trying to erase every hint of natural color from their hair and skin while doing their level best to have 0% body fat even if it means using dangerous drugs or starving themselves half-dead.

I personally feel prouder to play a character with an average body--breasts quite a bit smaller than mine, better muscle tone, taller than my 5'1" frame--than one who reminds me of the barbie dolls I used to play with as a kid. I feel so much better about playing the role of a normal woman than a creepy caricature of one. That's not to say that all forms of imitation are negative, but far too many people are modeling themselves after this hideous false ideal instead of trying to enhance who they feel they are--in other words, I'm not gonna knock somebody for dyeing their hair blue or getting their hair highlighted, just for trying to erase all trace of their natural coloring and evidence of age just to look like Paris Hilton.

If somebody's an actress, then I won't ever blame them for changing their look because it's part of the job, but just as an example: 
http://media.photobu...arter.jpg?o=420
http://images.starpu...-ALO-078693.jpg
Maybe it's just me, but I think the blonde hair and tan make her look older, even though she was years older in the photographs as a brunette than in the blonde. She's wearing less makeup, but looks younger and prettier in the brunette photograph because that's a natural look for her. That's what I prefer for everyone--blonde, brunette, or redhead, an at least semi-natural look, because dark brown eyebrows with blonde hair will never fail to look cheap and ugly to me. Like you're wearing a bad wig, and the spray tan only makes it more obvious.

I don't care if both genders (both, not just one--and no, I wouldn't want just males idealized either) are idealized to a moderate degree, but the severity of idealization (and idealization in the wrong direction, to boot) in most forms of media truly repels me. Any game that presents to me a realistic-yet-pleasing-to-both-genders average body for both its male and female characters has an edge with me that may make me buy it over a similar game. I prefer, for far more than just one reason, to see reality with all its quirks and foibles over the unsettling tricks intended to hide every hint of something realistic, brainwashing society to want something that isn't human. To want to be it, to want to sleep with it, to need it in order to feel normal or whole.

Screw that. I'll take real people any day.

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Just to drop in here, I find it
interesting that no one ever stops to wonder if, perhaps, Varric were
prone to exaggerating more than just facts about Hawke...

I suppose time will tell, but there might be a few surprises in store for the keen of eye.


*lmao* Okay, that is just awesome. :D

Modifié par Wynne, 06 novembre 2010 - 11:16 .


#517
Addai

Addai
  • Members
  • 25 850 messages

ziggehunderslash wrote...

I don't personally see it as a terribly bad thing, I think the problem lies in people not understanding that it's essentially cartoony (and semiotic) and so it's definitely worth having this kind of discussion.

It sounds like a cliche, and in the DA2 forum like a tired crank at this point, but I at least thought Dragon Age was different.  A bit more serious and mature than the rest, while still retaining some goofy humor.  When I first started playing, one of the things I found positive was that the female bodies didn't have the bursting-out T & A I had seen in my husband's other games.  Of course, at the time I didn't know that was because the same rig was used for male and female.  I should metnion also that Bethsoft games do a good job of this, as well.  The fact that there was an even-handed treatment of female warriors, without the patronizing kind of Xena stuff, was bonus.  And I also didn't know that such a sweet love story as Alistair's existed in video games.  So, all in all it seemed like the first game I played where you could seriously play as a female PC.

Anyway, that's part of the disappointment here.

#518
Jayce

Jayce
  • Members
  • 972 messages

Addai67 wrote...

Chaos Lord Malek wrote...

I personally like the new female models a lot more then what we seen in previous game or even titles from Bioware.

I can tell you , i rather play 'over exaggerated' female characters, then if they would look like males (and you could`t even made a difference between them). And besides that - look at the concurention, i seen some people having here Witcher signatures, and in that game - EVERY women is 'busty' pornstars.

Did any of us here say we like that about The Witcher?  Not I.

I would much rather play an athletic looking female, or at least one in the realm of natural possibility.  And, you don't have to look like a man to do that.  <_<


As a case in point, Allison Stokke.

Image IPB

#519
upsettingshorts

upsettingshorts
  • Members
  • 13 950 messages

Addai67 wrote...

Women like that don't exist.

I haven't looked at all the links, but I'm going to bet those busty babes being offered as Bethany exmaples  have a waist and hips, in real life if not in Photoshop.  I'm also going to bet they got pumpd with a lot of silicone to make them look the way they do.


The one I linked is "famous" pretty much only for the fact they she isn't pumped full of silicone and is mildly amusing on Twitter, plus the link I provided had a video precisely to avoid the whole Photoshop thing.  Anyway, I can't really argue that Diora Baird has an equally slim waist or hips as Bethany Hawke based on the one good angle - which in real life does a pretty good job of making the waist look slimmer and boobs look huge - of the latter we get where we see her.  Maybe she does.  In this shot she looks more balanced.  I can't say.

But my point is - on this particular minor sidetrack, anyway - to ask if would there be 20-page long threads about it if it was just Bethany that looked like that?  I'm not so sure.  

In any case, I don't think they need to look that way - the models ingame I mean - to be attractive.  I'd prefer if they were more modest in figure and dress, personally.  They can keep trying for pretty faces though, because I gotta draw the line somewhere.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 07 novembre 2010 - 12:30 .


#520
Ortaya Alevli

Ortaya Alevli
  • Members
  • 2 256 messages
In my opinion, the best female model in a BioWare so far is Female Shepard's.

#521
slimgrin

slimgrin
  • Members
  • 12 466 messages

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

In my opinion, the best female model in a BioWare so far is Female Shepard's.


I think femhawke is better, especially her physique. Femshep still has twig arms.

#522
upsettingshorts

upsettingshorts
  • Members
  • 13 950 messages

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

In my opinion, the best female model in a BioWare so far is Female Shepard's.


slimgrin wrote...

I think femhawke is better, especially her physique. Femshep still has twig arms.


FemShep could have been a little more athletic, but basically this.  Granted, I never figured it felt like "waifu" until she went hand-to-hand with the Shadow Broker.

Even then, she's a cyborg in ME2 so I imagine muscle and bone density really don't matter anymore. 

So, I'll stick with a more unqualified "this."

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 07 novembre 2010 - 12:29 .


#523
Ortaya Alevli

Ortaya Alevli
  • Members
  • 2 256 messages
Female Hawke may be better. I'll reserve judgment until the game comes out. Anything can happen.

#524
Maria Caliban

Maria Caliban
  • Members
  • 26 094 messages
Jade Empire had the best female body. Sadly, there was only one for the PC while there was three for the male PC.

#525
upsettingshorts

upsettingshorts
  • Members
  • 13 950 messages

Maria Caliban wrote...

Jade Empire had the best female body. Sadly, there was only one for the PC while there was three for the male PC.


I'll have to look again.  I haven't played that game in a while.  

(does so)

Yeah, I'll change my vote.  I could only find small images from the actual game amid the cosplay and artwork, but the ones I saw were fine.  And I don't remember thinking, "Boy these girls certainly are unattractive.  I need bigger boobs in the game." when I played it.