611 réponses à ce sujet

[Saibh]

SithLordExarKun wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Not gonna explain for the 100th time that 20-inch biceps would actually help a warrior-type PC do what they're supposed to do in a game, but a Double J bust hinders. Ok, I guess I just explained it, for the 101th time.

You DO know that 20 inch biceps is relatively useless in a fight due to how large it actually is thus restricting your movement and agility? Why is it that the vast majority of MMA fighters, or muay thai boxers try to stay lean and not too muscular like the worlds top bodybuilders?

Hell search up greg kovacs, the guy was so large and muscular he couldn't even wipe his ass, what makes you think his biceps will aid him in a fight?

Are you claiming that the DA2 figures have twenty-inch biceps?

I think she didn't really consider how large the bicep would be, rather that you were being hyperbolic.

[slimgrin]

Saibh wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

I'm convinced Saibh is in some way obsessed with large breasts. Even more than me.

I'm convinced you're trying to insult me unnecessarily and thus should probably remove yourself from the discussion, since you have nothing constructive to add but be a jerk. <_<

We're all fixated on something, and I'm not being a jerk. Come on, smiles....

Nothing wrong with the female figure, curvy or otherwise, and you know it. I wouldn't intentionally offend you.

[Saibh]

slimgrin wrote...

We're all fixated on something, and I'm not being a jerk. Come on, smiles....

Nothing wrong with the female figure, curvy or otherwise, and you know it. I wouldn't intentionally offend you.

...Does this mean I have to apologize?

I hate apologizing!

Shorts, you should do it for me!

(I'm really sorry! )

[Dave of Canada]

SithLordExarKun wrote...

Not that i'm defending anything but its ridiculous how some pro-feminist individuals b!tch and moan about the ladies having a larger than average bust but it is a-o-k for the males to have 20 inch biceps, ect ect ect

Since when does having big muscles make a man nothing but an object? I hate the male archtype as much as the next guy, however in comparison to the female version it means very little because the man is shown as strong and confident while the female is shown as nothing but an object to be used for the manly man's sexual needs.

There's no double standard here, the man's view of the "super strong" archtype is from a male point of view. As is the female's "gigantic breasts and big asses with small waistsize". I'm against both but you can't honestly sit here and call people "b!itch" because they don't approve of being treated like objects.

Look at God of War for example, how many guys view Kratos as the ultimate badass? Many, I assure you. How many woman on the other hand want to be the extremely sexual icon that is portrayed ingaming? Something like Laura Croft?

You want to know why Alyx Vance is a popular female character amongst both genders? Because she isn't an object, she looks exactly as a normal person would look. You don't see Valve fanatics yelling out that she needs a bigger bust size. Miranda and Morrigan are well loved but their proportions are a lot more tame than certain characters (though the ass shots and skin tight outfit do degrade Miranda to a sexual object status).

I forgot who brought it up, but look at this.

Besides, this isn't the point of the thread. The point of the thread is female models, meshes and textures. You can't go to a rally about female abuse and yell out "HEY, WHO GIVES A ****? MEN HAVE IT EQUALLY AS BAD!".
Now if you're going to keep calling individuals "****", I kindly ask you to please act more mature. We don't need that sort of attitude.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 08 novembre 2010 - 02:40 .

[SithLordExarKun]

tmp7704 wrote...

SithLordExarKun wrote...

Why is it that the vast majority of MMA fighters, or muay thai boxers try to stay lean and not too muscular like the worlds top bodybuilders?

I'd guess that's at least in part due to weight limitations and categories they use in organized sports.

Not really, if "bigger" was truly better(and even in bodybuilding this isn't true), every fighter would aim for the heavyweight size and organizations wouldn't bother giving them their respective weight categories.

My point is having a large muscular build like a top bodybuilder isn't going to help you much considering the size of your muscles restrict your agility.

Saibh wrote...

SithLordExarKun wrote...
Not that
i'm defending anything but its ridiculous how some pro-feminist
individuals b!tch and moan about the ladies having a larger than average
bust but it is a-o-k for the males to have 20 inch biceps, as broad as
arnold schwarzenegger and as shredded as most top bodybuilders in the
world in an era where nutrition isn't at the level to build muscle,
lacking any equipment for such resistance training that would get you to
that stage and steroids to get you to that massive size. 

But
hey, you're right, its a friggin fantasy game and some of these stuck up
individuals don't get that and would argue to the death that "its
wrong!!, its unhealthy!! you treat women like objects!!".  Double
standards.

You win the "I didn't even read two or three pages of the thread!" award.

You're assuming i'm referring to you, i'm not. Infact the individual i
happened to be referring to is a male and has incredibly irrational
reasoning.

I'm not defending the large bust decision, to be
honest i don't care what they do with the male or female models, but
what DOES make me question myself is how some irrational certain posters
are.

[Saibh]

SithLordExarKun wrote...

You're assuming i'm referring to you, i'm not. Infact the individual i
happened to be referring to is a male and has incredibly irrational
reasoning.

I'm not defending the large bust decision, to be
honest i don't care what they do with the male or female models, but
what DOES make me question myself is how some irrational certain posters
are.

No...I actually didn't think you were talking to me. It's just that no one was saying that. If they were, I didn't catch them. Several people have made the distinction that, yeah, it's unfair.

[upsettingshorts]

Dave of Canada wrote...
You want to know why Alyx Vance is a popular female character amongst both genders? Because she isn't an object, she looks exactly as a normal person would look.

I totally looked when Alyx climbed up a set of stairs ahead of Gordon Freeman.  DON'T JUDGE ME.

SithLordExarKun wrote...

I'm not defending the large bust decision, to be honest i don't care what they do with the male or female models, but what DOES make me question myself is how some irrational certain posters are.

To whose posts are you referring?

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 08 novembre 2010 - 02:46 .

[Saibh]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...
You want to know why Alyx Vance is a popular female character amongst both genders? Because she isn't an object, she looks exactly as a normal person would look.

I totally looked when Alyx climbed up a set of stairs ahead of Gordon Freeman.  DON'T JUDGE ME.

Doesn't she wear pants? What could you be looking at?

[tmp7704]

SithLordExarKun wrote...

Not really, if "bigger" was truly better(and even in bodybuilding this isn't true), every fighter would aim for the heavyweight size and organizations wouldn't bother giving them their respective weight categories.

My point is having a large muscular build like a top bodybuilder isn't going to help you much considering the size of your muscles restrict your agility.

But then consider this -- if this is true and weight (as well as associated musculature) isn't going to help one much, why the organizations bother to create weight categories at all? Why not allow every fighter out there just build up as much as they can indeed, if it's not going to help them in the fight, then who cares if they do that?

If the fighters currently not aim for heavyweight then it's likely because of these weight categories -- extra muscles aren't advantage when all opponents you face are guys who are just like yourself. It would be building oneself up for no gain, making the effort pointless and so they don't bother.

Modifié par tmp7704, 08 novembre 2010 - 02:46 .

[upsettingshorts]

Saibh wrote...

Doesn't she wear pants? What could you be looking at?

EDI: That was a joke.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 08 novembre 2010 - 02:47 .

[Saibh]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Saibh wrote...

Doesn't she wear pants? What could you be looking at?

EDI: That was a joke.

Don't you use my own metajoke about joking against me! Only I can quote EDI!

[Dave of Canada]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I totally looked when Alyx climbed up a set of stairs ahead of Gordon Freeman.  DON'T JUDGE ME.

/judge

She's still "attractive" to male gamers, she just isn't the "babe" that most games go for.

[slimgrin]

Men's figures are utilitarian, women's are so much more. I didn't make the rules up.

The Female figure goes above and beyond the call of duty. It has an aesthetic value beyond function, it is beauty personified. 

Modifié par slimgrin, 08 novembre 2010 - 09:13 .

[Maria Caliban]

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

Wow. What kind of person would degenerate "wife" into "waifu", I wonder.

A person whose native language is Japanese.

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

It's literally impossible to learn English under current conditions.

At 3,000 words, you've covered 84% of the average conversation.

[SithLordExarKun]

Dave of Canada wrote...



Since when does having big muscles make a man nothing but an object? 

Since when did i say that? All i said was its stupid how some people argue that "its unrealistic for women to have the said bust in that era where silicon/growth hormones don't exist" but ignore the fact that the males can get that large and shredded like some of the top bodybuilders in the 70's in an era where steroids don't exist nor do they have the proper training and steroids to get to that level.  Thats it, thats my point.

Dave of Canada wrote...
I hate the male archtype as much as the next guy, however in comparison to the female version it means very little because the man is shown as strong and confident while the female is shown as nothing but an object to be used for the manly man's sexual needs.

Look, i don't like the way women are portrayed either in most games and movies nowadays. Hell if you'd ask me my favourite fictional character is Ellen ripley from the alien trilogy, she's not portrayed as a sex object, she doesn't have a large bust or a big bum but rather a women with an average build and a believable personality.

Dave of Canada wrote...
There's no double standard here, the man's view of the "super strong" archtype is from a male point of view. As is the female's "gigantic breasts and big asses with small waistsize". I'm against both but you can't honestly sit here and call people "b!itch" because they don't approve of being treated like objects.

First things first i didn't call anyone a b!tch for not liking to be treated like an object, i just said how some pro-feminist b!tch and mooan about these things .

Heres the exact line: on that very same post : how some pro-feminist individuals b!tch and moan

Now i ask you to kindly drop your accusations.

Dave of Canada wrote...
You want to know why Alyx Vance is a popular female character amongst both genders? Because she isn't an object, she looks exactly as a normal person would look. You don't see Valve fanatics yelling out that she needs a bigger bust size. Miranda and Morrigan are well loved but their proportions are a lot more tame than certain characters (though the ass shots and skin tight outfit do degrade Miranda to a sexual object status).

  Exactly  now see my post about Signourney weaver. THATS how i like women to be portrayed.

[Ortaya Alevli]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

Wow. What kind of person would degenerate "wife" into "waifu", I wonder.

A person whose native language is Japanese.

You really wouldn't wanna know what kind of atrocities I would take the word "wife" and commit in my native language.

Which is exactly the reason why I'm not doing that. hehe

Foreign language screwups are best left to conversations made in the said language in my opinion.

[Saibh]

SithLordExarKun wrote...

Heres the exact line: on that very same post : how some pro-feminist individuals b!tch and moan

Now i ask you to kindly drop your accusations.

Why did you say this, then? Who was doing this in this thread? If it were one person, why would you direct that statement at the entire thread without making the distinction of that person? 

[Ziggeh]

SithLordExarKun wrote...

I'm not defending the large bust decision, to be honest i don't care what they do with the male or female models, but
what DOES make me question myself is how some irrational certain posters are.

The fact that in reality strength has diminishing returns (someone has hijacked my language) in combat is irrelevant, it's the perception that it does not that matters.

So, yes, there is a double standard, for the reasons others have outlines, and no, it's not irrational, it's an entirely ligimate concern. It impacts how women are percieved.

I would say that as one built into the culture, and that the game has good reasons to exaggerate what it does (it's not just T and A) that discussing it here should be more about informing people the issue exists and less about damning Bioware for telling a story with pictures, but the thread probably achieves that either way, so hey.

[SithLordExarKun]

tmp7704 wrote...

But then consider this -- if this is true and weight (as well as associated musculature) isn't going to help one much, why the organizations bother to create weight categories at all?

Heres why you're wrong. Number one there are open category in bodybuilding where the flyweights, bantam weights, welter weights, middle weights, super heavyweights fight against once another(the champions of each class that is) and there ARE many cases were the smaller bodybuilder beats the much large ones.

Look at Frankzane(180lbs), Sazali Samad(140lbs) and Sitthi Charoenrith(180lbs). They are much lighter and small than most bodybuilders in the IFBB world champion but they have beaten bodybuilders that weighed over 240lbs. For Frank zane, he has beaten the top bodybuilders in the mr olympia competition which has bodybuilders weighing up to 250 lbs at that time.

tmp7704 wrote...
Why not allow every fighter out there just build up as much as they can indeed, if it's not going to help them in the fight, then who cares if they do that?

It DOES help, but not when you're as large as a competitive bodybuilder. Do you have any idea how large these bodybuilders are at all? Especially the ones with biceps that range from 18-20 inchs? Thats my point.

tmp7704 wrote...
If the fighters currently not aim for heavyweight then it's likely because of these weight categories -- extra muscles aren't advantage when all opponents you face are guys who are just like yourself. It would be building oneself up for no gain, making the effort pointless and so they don't bother.

Let me change my stance, some extra muscles do help, but not to the point where you're sporting 18-20 inch arms which is essentially far too much muscles that restrict your agility.

[SithLordExarKun]

Saibh wrote...

SithLordExarKun wrote...

Heres the exact line: on that very same post : how some pro-feminist individuals b!tch and moan

Now i ask you to kindly drop your accusations.

Why did you say this, then? Who was doing this in this thread? If it were one person, why would you direct that statement at the entire thread without making the distinction of that person? 

Did you see the "s" behind the word "individual"?. Its plural, i am not going to name every single person who was moaning and b!tching about this because its unnecessary.

[Kroaks]

Admitably I haven't played much tomb raider; but exactly how is Laura Croft portrayed in a sexist matter?



She has large breasts but what is sexiest in and of itself of having large breasts?



Do they continiously have her in sexual poses or show her as helpless and incapable without a man and intellectual/emotionally weaker to all her male colleagues?



And from what I looked up; Alyx Vance maynot have gigantic breasts but they are still pretty decent sized ones, especially if you factor in the body fat level. By that factor Isabela may have larger breasts but she's a more solid individual as well with at least one mention towards her as being "fat" in these threads on the forum.



Than include the "pretty factor" as has also been said; Isabela aint the prettiest woman out there not ugly but Alyx Vance has some of the "pretty factor" going.



If it weren't for the butt shots; the base model of AV is actually worse from an idealization standpoint.



Pretty maybe a preferable form of idealization than big busted but its still idealization.



And sure male muscles have utlilitarian uses but lets be honest; most guys work out to get the abs, biceps and pecs because thats what the gender they happen to be interested in wants whether that be male or female.



Increasing their attractiveness is a "big" part of why most men work out.

[Kroaks]

Inregards to sexualization; women seem to favor models like Twiggy, if anyone remembers her and men seem to go for types like Marily Monroe.



Statistically speaking; women with the hourglass figure are healthier, more biologically productive and have higher IQs.



Presuming your waist doesn't exceed 32 inches anyways with 40 inch hips for maximum benefits.



Of course you pretty much have to be born with this kind of body type along with the right eating habits.



Otherwise its generally better to be slightly underweight; people who restrict themselves to a 1500 calorie diet on average live around 5 yrs longer I believe.



Though if your a man; you can tack a few more years on their by neutering yourself if its that big an issue.

I suspect most won't though.

[SithLordExarKun]

Yenaquai wrote...



Firstly, I would like to point out the title of the thread. It's about Female models, and not male.
Secondly, you are right about the part with the anatomy of men in the game. Yes, they too look a tad unrealistic.
But there certainly is a difference between the exaggerations of the two models. As others have pointed out, the women are portrayed in an sexualized, anatomically ALSO quite weird way, while men are portrayed as being merely very muscular. (Which is not impossible, and from what I've seen in the screenshots, it is a musclesize which isn't that unrealistic)
The male portrayal clearly reads as a visual message: He is strong, he is capable, he is badass.
But the female portrayal reads as: Sexy (by some. I simply find the model unrealistic)

Wait, so its totally ok to point out the unrealistic attributes of the female body in this game(such as lack of implanets at that era) but its a-ok for the males to be that muscular in an age where there isn't proper training and equipment to get to that size plus the lack of a substantial nutrition. All this gets dismissed?

By the way, you haven't been reading my posts obviously, i said i didn't like the way women are portrayed either, hell the only realistically portrayed female i've seen so far that is kickass and not sexualized in any way are Ellen Ripley(Sigourney Weaver) and Sarah Connor(linda hamilton). Of course there are other women realistically portrayed but these are the most prominent to me.

Yenaquai wrote...
Both are exaggerations, both are unrealistic in their ways. I am aware of that. What is a shame, in my opinion, is that female models are treated with this horrid beauty-standard of our society, while it could be done a bit more naturally. And yes. If all female models in the game are looking this way, women are objectified within the game. Because that is clearly what the visual message is telling us. Their bodies are sexy.

Do I think that Bioware is evil and should be put to the torch? Not really. They are simply picking up an interpretation of beauty that works for most people. They are not to blame.
My personal opinion on the matter is that is still not the best solution, and that it could be done differently without idealizing the female body with this false picture of beauty.

But yeah. It is a fantasy game. But games are a part of the media that spreads the false picture of female anatomy, so it is legitimate to discuss about it.
You could also say: "Its a friggin' advertisment!", "It's a friggin photo!", "It's a friggin movie!", but summed up, they continue to spread an image of beauty that is simply wrong.

To be honest, the "female bodytype" that really made me go blargh was the pornstar body mod for DAO, that one in my opinion was just outright wrong. As for DA2, yeah i will agree both are unrealistic in that setting, but like many people say its a fantasy game.

I know that some people don't like the way the  women are portrayed in this game, but in my opinion its not that horrible as some people put it out to be.

Hell "beauty" is subjective, theres no right or wrong when it comes to "beauty", just because you think a skinny anorexic girl is "beautiful" thats "beautiful" to you, not as a universal fact so saying that the anatomy in DA2 is "False" as an absolute fact is wrong.

For me i think the proportions for the female models are a little too over stretched, but i don't see this as a massive game breaking issue, if it bothers some people THAT much, then don't play it. Simple.

[SithLordExarKun]

Kroaks wrote...

Statistically speaking; women with the hourglass figure are healthier, more biologically productive and have higher IQs.

That is just a stupid stereotype with little to nothing concrete to back it up. They are healthier because of their life style, do you think anyone that eats junkfood all they long will maintain that figure and still remain healthy?