29 réponses à ce sujet

[John Epler]

Oh god, no. Not the 'what is dark fantasy' road again.



For my sanity, please. Let's stay away from that path.

[Mary Kirby]

DSerpa wrote...


I know it's the same writing team. I was just wondering if they decided to go with a different tone to make the sequel appeal to more people--less philosophically dubitable, more "bang-bang kill the bad space alien" in a sense.

We decided to replace all the words with electric guitar-playing steel scorpions on fire. We hear that's hot right now. Possibly in a literal sense.

[Sheryl Chee]

Marionetten wrote...
There better be some hot rod samurais in there or I'm going to be quite peeved. We were promised hot rod samurais!

There are. Hot-rod samurais from outer space!

[Mary Kirby]

Sheryl Chee wrote...

There are. Hot-rod samurais from outer space!

*cues the Hot-rod samurai from outer space musical number*

[Lukas Kristjanson]

It’s a more personal story with no chosen one and no obvious evil beastie to knock off the mountain. I can’t say if you will find that better or worse, or if "better or worse" is even applicable. I’m sure many will claim that this means you’re not doing something that is as “important” as Origins, though the repercussions for the setting will be larger than saving the day. We also think the characters are some of the most interesting we have written, and many plots put you in a position of making some very rough decisions.

I could be biased, though. Actually, I am incredibly biased. Or perhaps I simply am bias. And I also wrote big chunks of ME1 and 2, so I’m technically the enemy. But I also wrote a lot of Jade, so you like me again, right? And lot of Neverwinter, so you hate me, maybe? And KotOR, so, love? And Jaheira, so, hair-tearing rage? Boo? Give me long enough and I will shear your emotions in half.

[David Gaider]

Utoryo wrote...
Ah, I was wondering what it was within you that made Leliana such a great character (especially the hidden layers of complexity, fragility, and strength you discover when you harden her)... now I know

Except that Sheryl wrote Leliana.

[Mary Kirby]

David Gaider wrote...

Utoryo wrote...
Ah, I was wondering what it was within you that made Leliana such a great character (especially the hidden layers of complexity, fragility, and strength you discover when you harden her)... now I know

Except that Sheryl wrote Leliana.

Luke is just that influential.

[Lukas Kristjanson]

Mary Kirby wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Utoryo wrote...
Ah, I was wondering what it was within you that made Leliana such a great character (especially the hidden layers of complexity, fragility, and strength you discover when you harden her)... now I know

Except that Sheryl wrote Leliana.

Luke is just that influential.

I think my reputation precludes me. Seriously, all props to Sheryl for main game Lel and her many layers. I did write Leliana's Song, so I guess add that to your dread or approval column for DA2, depending on your preference for Orlesian liberties with the truth.

Modifié par Lukas Kristjanson, 05 novembre 2010 - 11:24 .

[Sheryl Chee]

Lukas Kristjanson wrote...

Seriously, all props to Sheryl for main game Lel and her many layers.

*nods sagely* She is like an onion. Or one of those dips that everyone brings to pot lucks.

[David Gaider]

DSerpa wrote...
I'm only saying that I feel that the complexity and moral ambiguity in Origins made for a fantastic story; and I'm wondering if Dragon Age II will retain that formula or if it will be simplified and made less mature and melancholic in order to appeal to a wider audience. I certainly don't hate you.

Although I seem to have irked the entire writing staff at Bioware.

Do we seem irked? I think we're generally snarkier than this when we're irked.

As for the formula, the themes are markedly different in DA2 but that's a good thing-- if we were retreading the same story themes that would be tiresome, and certainly wouldn't work for a more personal game. Insofar as the "simplified" part goes, I'm not sure why you would think that. I don't think we've simplified anything, but I can't really prove anything without citing examples from our story-- and I'm not about to do that. So there you go?

[David Gaider]

Ryzaki wrote...
The writing will be perfect as long as we don't get a incident like "the priiiiize." 

I'm not even sure what that is, and I played ME2. Even so, I imagine there's bound to be something in DA2 for people to find and mock if they try hard enough.

[Lukas Kristjanson]

DSerpa wrote...

Lukas Kristjanson wrote...

It’s a more personal story with no chosen one and no obvious evil beastie to knock off the mountain. I can’t say if you will find that better or worse, or if "better or worse" is even applicable. I’m sure many will claim that this means you’re not doing something that is as “important” as Origins, though the repercussions for the setting will be larger than saving the day. We also think the characters are some of the most interesting we have written, and many plots put you in a position of making some very rough decisions.

I could be biased, though. Actually, I am incredibly biased. Or perhaps I simply am bias. And I also wrote big chunks of ME1 and 2, so I’m technically the enemy. But I also wrote a lot of Jade, so you like me again, right? And lot of Neverwinter, so you hate me, maybe? And KotOR, so, love? And Jaheira, so, hair-tearing rage? Boo? Give me long enough and I will shear your emotions in half.

I don't mean to offend. I liked Mass Effect (I and II). They were both rather straightforward with right and wrong clearly spelled out, but they were both still very good games. I'm only saying that I feel that the complexity and moral ambiguity in Origins made for a fantastic story; and I'm wondering if Dragon Age II will retain that formula or if it will be simplified and made less mature and melancholic in order to appeal to a wider audience. I certainly don't hate you.

Although I seem to have irked the entire writing staff at Bioware.

Irked? No sir, no offense taken. I assure you the emotion of the posts in this thread are pretty much universally "Friday giddy." It's just that we can't really answer this question for you. We can say that we think it's some of our best work for X reason, but I probably would have given you a similar answer at the same point for any of our previous projects. They have all been our best work to that point, from my perspective, because the changes that we've made at each step have been the ones we thought were needed for that project at that time. That includes the ones some players liked and the ones some didn't.

Ninja'd by Dave! (shakes tiny fist)

[John Epler]

As someone who works with the writing extensively but is not, themselves, a writer - I can say that I find the writing in DA2 to be pretty fantastic. Particularly since my job involves 'how do I take this writing and make the visuals do it justice'.



The answer, always, is crash zooms and hitchcock zooms. You guys like those, right? RIGHT?

[David Gaider]

Ryzaki wrote...
Its this

And...Its not even mocking...its just so...bad.

Oh. Well, that explains it-- I never did the Jacob romance. Started it, but it felt a little too "sexually harass the subordinate" for my tastes.

Even so, I don't see what's so bad about it. The way some people talk about it, they make it sound like Revenge of the Sith-level Darth Vader. Silly.

[David Gaider]

Brockololly wrote...
Seriously, the whole Jacob Taylor romance is one of the prime examples of why the voiced protagonist doesn't always work out so well- really, why voiced PC romances in general just give off a very creepy vibe.

I don't think that's an issue with the voiced protaganist. The lines would have been much the same had they been unvoiced, I think. It sounds more like an discrepancy between the writer's take on the romance and what you (or I) might have preferred. That's going to happen in just about any romance writing.

[David Gaider]

slimgrin wrote...
It is pretty bad, made worse by the fact the other romances are well done.

Meh. Romances are never going to appeal to everyone. I got the start of it, shrugged, and moved on to another romance I liked more. I'm not sure what the big deal is-- I'm sure some people liked it, after all.

[David Gaider]

Brockololly wrote...
I get that the reaction from the NPC would be scripted one way, voiced PC or not, but in FemShep's case it was off-putting as she reacted in a way that you as the player had no clue or control over tone wise and then it led into an action which you also had no control over. Maybe thats ok with ME and its more detatched narrative style, but I never had to worry about my Warden going rogue and molesting any party members.

I suppose, though there I think we're heading into Sylvius-level arguments about roleplaying and such, who's doing the writing, yadda yadda yadda. I don't see much of a difference myself, and even in a case like the Jacob romance where the difference might be more pronounced I still personally like to be able to hear both sides of the conversation.

One can dislike cinematic dialogue if they wish, but I personally see less value in going half-way down that route-- which we did in Origins. Either it's cinematic or it's not. There are advantages and disadvantages in any implementation, but this is the one we've chosen for DA2 at any rate.

Slight romance related question- its been mentioned we'll have some sort of romance icon to denote romance lines, but does that mean we're limited to basically one type of romance line? Or are there snarky, suave or gruff romance lines too?

It depends on the line in question. Most often there's a single romance-oriented line, unless you're in the middle of romance-specific dialogue (as in the entire dialogue is part of the romance) in which case the regular dialogue implementation applies.

Modifié par David Gaider, 06 novembre 2010 - 01:30 .

[David Gaider]

Upsettingshorts wrote...
Yeah, I think we understand. But the point with the Jacob romance is that he - well, more accurately the relationship between him and FemShep - seemed to appeal to very few people. Does that not strike you as a failure of execution at some level?

Not really, no-- unless you think we should be taking the pronouncements of the people on these forums as the final word on the matter? We learn something from every romance we do (or at least I have), good or bad, but either way I'm not liable to label anything a failure just because the hardcore on the forums have rendered a collective opinion.

[David Gaider]

Upsettingshorts wrote...
Just because those threads are long doesn't mean everyone posting in them is signing off on the idea.  Quite the opposite, it seems.

My experience with long threads says that most of them are the result of a handful of people who refuse to let something go while everyone else argues with them. Occasionally that's not the case, but most often it is. We're not fooled.

Unless someone really thinks a scenario occurs where Mary runs into Mike's office going, "Oh no! There's a 100-page thread complaining about something!"

"Egad! We must get on that right away!"

Unlikely.

[David Gaider]

Brockololly wrote...
Which is why I'd have liked to see BioWare try different things like a first person view with a silent PC in DA2 instead of adopting ME2's system- it would have been nice to see DA develop its own identity that way. There is always DA3....

That sounds unlikely. And lame.

We'd rather go our own way, thanks.

[David Gaider]

Brockololly wrote...
So, no more silent PCs then since they don't fit with BioWare's master cinematic vision of making interactive movies complete with Alfred hitchcock smash zooms on some voiced PC's horribly distorted Uncanny valley buggy eye face? I see how it is....

Oh, I don't know that we'd never do a silent PC again. I just doubt we'd ever couple it with first-person view-- especially not in a party-based game. We do like the cinematic style, at least currently, and we'll see where it takes us. Just because we're doing one thing for DA2-- whether it's human-only PC or companion appearances or voiced protaganist doesn't mean this is how we will do it for ALL GAME FOREVER. We'll see how it works, okay?

[David Gaider]

In Exile wrote...
But that then takes the game toward the FO:NV direction, which frankly is not that interesting of a game to play.

I thought FO:NV was lovely-- but it's a very different kind of game from what we're making (or what we make). Thankfully there's room for both.

[David Gaider]

Maria Caliban wrote...
Do you usually talk to people while engaging in combat?

I think what AngryPants is saying is that you can run around in third person (ie. you can see your PC) but as soon as you talk to someone it zooms back into first person-- ergo, you never actually see your character at all during the conversation, and it's just talking heads.

[Lukas Kristjanson]

Pausanias wrote...

Just a quick question: which parts of ME2 did you write? Just curious.

Heh, well, let me just catch my breath after the body-blows of this thread, because for starters I wrote Jacob. I quite like him, the man has his act together, but yeah, I see how the cumulative effect of a lot of factors could be viewed a certain way by some people (ooh, look at me duck and weave). Lessons learned every time, some obvious, some not. I also wrote Grunt and Joker which was crazy fun, with some Jack polish on the side, some crit path (I love a good speech), some reactivity (since I was also on ME1), and lots and lots of fiddly bits before I shifted over to the DA side again for prep and LS. Reviews are nice, but you know what makes me smile? Seeing Shep's “I’m sorry, I’m having trouble hearing you…” in someone's sig in a random forum. I giggled as I wrote that one very late night. And yes, I laugh at "the priiize" meme too.

Got to say, though, you can't slice any of our games up with utter absolutes of X did Y, and many of the above were edited or otherwise influenced by other talented people during reviews, interjections, and feedback from any number of playthroughs. We do it with every project, DA2 included. We definitely try to give ownership because we believe that's how you get the best plots and characters, but nothing is done in isolation, and that’s not limited to the writers. Some of my best work has been because an editor slapped me back to reality, we got an awesome alternate read in the sound booth, line limits because we have the perfect actor but he's only available for X amount of time, cine showing something instead of me blabbing it, edits to someone else’s groundwork (or someone editing mine), tech or art coming up with something so awesome you rewrite the scene to showcase it, or any number of other factors.

So to bring this back to writing for DA2, but really the whole design of it, even if some of you disagree with a decision we’ve made, you can be confident that nothing was decided in a vacuum. As picky as some get on these forums or elsewhere, I guarantee that in the vast number of cases we’ve passionately argued the exact same points ourselves and did not make the call lightly. We may not always be able to give you every detail, but I don’t think there’s been a thread on the board that at least one of us can’t point at it and say “I knew someone would feel like that.”**

Makes me want to get it right the first time. Can’t always say I have, but it’s never for lack of trying.






**Except, you know, maybe the romance-your-sister threads. Dude, no.