195 réponses à ce sujet

[tommyt_1994]

This game seems to paint Paragon as the right/nice choice while renegade is the bad/douche choice, does anyone else think that if the choices were jumbled in their order (as in top=paragon and bottom=renegade) and weren't colored, there would be alot more renegades? Possibly even more than paragons? I personaly think so. I hate the paragon=right, renegade=bad aspect of this game, especially when the develops supposedly didnt create the choices like that. I mean, look at what happens post Collector base decision, you feel righteous and awesome if you blow it, but you feel like a moron if you keep it due to every squad mate disagreeing with you/TIM's rape face.

PS: Please don't turn this into a Collector Base thread, there's already one of those. It was just one of the many examples.

Modifié par tommyt_1994, 06 novembre 2010 - 02:07 .

[Collider]

I definitely do.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Without a doubt.



The Collector Base decision is one of the few major choices in the second game where I'd say that the Paragon is the only right one, though.

[tommyt_1994]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Without a doubt.

The Collector Base decision is one of the few major choices in the second game where I'd say that the Paragon is the only right one, though.

Lol I don't understand how you see that decision as the right one, considering both choices are vaild IMO, but let's not turn this thread into that please.

It seems like everyone here is a paragon though, and paragons so far have made all the right decisions in the long run, even though when they appeared to be gray decisions are the time. (excluding Elnora) Save the council? No reprecussions. Spare the rachni? They're helping out poor asari and doing good. Let Balak go? He doesn't even think about blowing the charges as soon as he leaves and he hasn't struck again to our knowlegde.

I just wish the game wasn't so black and white.

[AntiChri5]

The wheel is organised so you have an idea of the context in which Shepard would respond.

Jumbling it up would be awful.

[tommyt_1994]

AntiChri5 wrote...

The wheel is organised so you have an idea of the context in which Shepard would respond.
Jumbling it up would be awful.

That's what the summaries of each line are for. They would have to be fixed because quite frankly the suck sometimes.

[Randy1012]

This is why the DA2 team have added 'context' indicators to their dialogue wheel so that people will get the general idea of how Hawke is going to behave. I'd like to see something similar in ME3.

[anmiro]

This game is so far from black and white. The majority of the choices in ME2 are two shades of grey. There is a reason for all the threads debating the choices made in ME2 and it has nothing to do with the color of our responses.

[tommyt_1994]

When you look back at decisions after making them, its clear that paragon choices are almost always the right ones in the long run. Always, excluding the Elnora choice which was a very minor one.

Modifié par tommyt_1994, 06 novembre 2010 - 02:51 .

[anmiro]

tommyt_1994 wrote...

When you look back at decisions after making them, its clear that paragon choices are almost always the right ones in the long run. Always, excluding the Elnora choice which was a very minor one.

If you talked to the Volus outside then you already know that all Eclipse members have to kill someone as a part of their initiation. I think Elnora is an example of Paragon Shepard being a moron. The Paragon choice should have been to arrest her, tie her up or shoot her in the leg. Pretty much anything between killing her and letting her go. I shoot Elnora only because she pulls her gone on me.

In my opinion the Genophage is the most ambiguous topic in the game and its the only time that I choose renegade responses.

[Spectre_907]

I do not see how the renegade choices would be the right ones if you are suggesting that some paragon ones should be treated as the wrong choices. Examples: Letting the council die creates a power vaccum that humans take advantage of at the expense of other races, killing the rachni queen is genocidal, and revealing evidence in Tali's trial destabilizes a species and betrays a friend. I do not see how these choices have any right in them. That's not to say all renegade choices are wrong as there are some exceptions like the geth heretics, Collector base, Elnora, Balak, and Project Overlord. But I think most paragon choices are fine where they are. The only concern I had where I would agree with you was that of the Collector base with respect to some crew members, such as Mordin.

As for the question of redesign of the dialogue wheel, no. I think most choose based on their personal moral convictions. They would just read the text and select on what they think is right.

Modifié par Spectre_907, 06 novembre 2010 - 04:07 .

[spthompson]

I definately agree. I've been attempting to play using the "renegade" route, but more and more I see the renegade choice as more of an "****" choice. Maybe they should just change the name? I'm ready to give up the renegade route... it just isn't me!

[spthompson]

Funny, the forum software erased my choice of words above. I think "renegade" should really be "a**hole". I'm curious if this post gets through. :-)

[spthompson]

One more comment, the "renegade" route reminds me of "Calvin and Hobbes", so EXTREME!

[Kingthlayer]

I don't know about saving Rachni being the right choice, for all we know that asari on Illium is a slave to the Rachni. Of course that's obviously not going to happen. Though I can imagine the outrage on Mass Effect message boards everywhere if the Rachni attack you during the Reaper fight instead of helping.

[Ultai]

Big Mac Heart Attack wrote...

I don't know about saving Rachni being the right choice, for all we know that asari on Illium is a slave to the Rachni. Of course that's obviously not going to happen. Though I can imagine the outrage on Mass Effect message boards everywhere if the Rachni attack you during the Reaper fight instead of helping.

Can't have any "no good deed goes unpunished" in our mass effect now can we?

Personally I think the collector base decisions should have been placed on the middle spokes of the wheel instead of the paragon/renegade slots.

Modifié par Ultai, 06 novembre 2010 - 05:09 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

I find choices like killing the Rachni Queen and sparing the Collector base to seem Paragon at first glance. But when you think about it, they're definitely Renegade. I agree with the OP.

[tommyt_1994]

Big Mac Heart Attack wrote...

I don't know about saving Rachni being the right choice, for all we know that asari on Illium is a slave to the Rachni. Of course that's obviously not going to happen. Though I can imagine the outrage on Mass Effect message boards everywhere if the Rachni attack you during the Reaper fight instead of helping.

I really wish that would happen. if there isn't suppose to be a 'right' choice, then paragon choices shouldn't work out perfectly 24/7 and the rachni choice would be a good (and surprising) one to turn back and bite you in the a**.

[Manic Sheep]

Probably. Allot of people seem to have this idea that renegade = evil/bad, paragon = good/right or that every renegade option will result in your character being an arrogant dick which is not always the case.

But if they were going to jumble them then they would really need to improve the summarise of each line because right now they are horrible.

Especially with the renegade lines. You never know what you are going to get. Are you going to be harsh realist or are you going to punch someone in the face?

[tommyt_1994]

Manic Sheep wrote...

Probably. Allot of people seem to have this idea that renegade = evil/bad, paragon = good/right or that every renegade option will result in your character being an arrogant dick which is not always the case.
But if they were going to jumble them then they would really need to improve the summarise of each line because right now they are horrible.
Especially with the renegade lines. You never know what you are going to get. Are you going to be harsh realist or are you going to punch someone in the face?

Exactly. This is why I save before every forseeable convo. You never know when "What?" will turn into "slow down and speak clearly you f*cker." I think a button that revealed what Shepard would say with each option, but not everyone else's reactions to said words, would solve the problem.

[NitrAce]

Totally. Renegade options are pretty badass

[Manic Sheep]

tommyt_1994 wrote...

Manic Sheep wrote...

Probably. Allot of people seem to have this idea that renegade = evil/bad, paragon = good/right or that every renegade option will result in your character being an arrogant dick which is not always the case.
But if they were going to jumble them then they would really need to improve the summarise of each line because right now they are horrible.
Especially with the renegade lines. You never know what you are going to get. Are you going to be harsh realist or are you going to punch someone in the face?

Exactly. This is why I save before every forseeable convo. You never know when "What?" will turn into "slow down and speak clearly you f*cker." I think a button that revealed what Shepard would say with each option, but not everyone else's reactions to said words, would solve the problem.

Same here. A button like that would be perfect and probably reduce the amount of time it takes me to get through the game quite significantly. As it is being the obsessive twit that I am, I usually end up running through each conversation several times so I can actually see what each option really is. Especially since I never play strictly paragon or strictly renegade.

OY BIOWARE, ARE YOU READING THIS?

(yes I know they aren’t, I’m being a dick)

Modifié par Manic Sheep, 06 novembre 2010 - 06:43 .

[tommyt_1994]

Manic Sheep wrote...

tommyt_1994 wrote...

Manic Sheep wrote...

Probably. Allot of people seem to have this idea that renegade = evil/bad, paragon = good/right or that every renegade option will result in your character being an arrogant dick which is not always the case.
But if they were going to jumble them then they would really need to improve the summarise of each line because right now they are horrible.
Especially with the renegade lines. You never know what you are going to get. Are you going to be harsh realist or are you going to punch someone in the face?

Exactly. This is why I save before every forseeable convo. You never know when "What?" will turn into "slow down and speak clearly you f*cker." I think a button that revealed what Shepard would say with each option, but not everyone else's reactions to said words, would solve the problem.

Same here. A button like that would be perfect and probably reduce the amount of time it takes me to get through the game quite significantly. As it is being the obsessive twit that I am, I usually end up running through each conversation several times so I can actually see what each option really is. Especially since I never play strictly paragon or strictly renegade.

OY BIOWARE, ARE YOU READING THIS?

(yes I know they aren’t, I’m being a dick)

Well someone could make a thread about it, that could very easily be seen by Bioware, especially if a lot of people agreed with us and jumped on board.

But my main concern is, why are paragons ao often rewarded while renegades are not? Did you let the council die to concentrate on the greater threat? Well guess what, that was for nothing. Did you kill the rachni because you didn't think risking the galaxy on the off chance the queen was being truthful was a good idea? Well, so far, they're peaceful people who will help when the reapers come.

Now tell me, excluding Elnora, when has a renegade choice turned out better in the end than the paragon one?

Oh and regarding Elnora, can you call killing her a renegade action? The renegade interrupt comes after a known Elicpse mercenary pulls her gun on you. Defending yourself isn't renegade, it's the smart move when a merc pulls her gun on you.

Modifié par tommyt_1994, 06 novembre 2010 - 06:52 .

[Ahriman]

Manic Sheep wrote...

Probably. Allot of people seem to have this idea that renegade = evil/bad, paragon = good/right or that every renegade option will result in your character being an arrogant dick which is not always the case.
But if they were going to jumble them then they would really need to improve the summarise of each line because right now they are horrible.

Looks like sometime Bioware cannot decide who is the renegade: blood maniac or just cynic, who doesn't trust in Greater Good. We can find thousands reasons for renegade or paragon choices, but when Shepard starts argue his/her decision he/she sounds like a moron.


P.s. Maybe it's better to do special interface for no-wrong-decision-choices, just left and right variants, without colours of course.

Modifié par Wizz, 06 novembre 2010 - 07:21 .

[Manic Sheep]

tommyt_1994 wrote...

Manic Sheep wrote...

tommyt_1994 wrote...

Manic Sheep wrote...

Probably. Allot of people seem to have this idea that renegade = evil/bad, paragon = good/right or that every renegade option will result in your character being an arrogant dick which is not always the case.
But if they were going to jumble them then they would really need to improve the summarise of each line because right now they are horrible.
Especially with the renegade lines. You never know what you are going to get. Are you going to be harsh realist or are you going to punch someone in the face?

Exactly. This is why I save before every forseeable convo. You never know when "What?" will turn into "slow down and speak clearly you f*cker." I think a button that revealed what Shepard would say with each option, but not everyone else's reactions to said words, would solve the problem.

Same here. A button like that would be perfect and probably reduce the amount of time it takes me to get through the game quite significantly. As it is being the obsessive twit that I am, I usually end up running through each conversation several times so I can actually see what each option really is. Especially since I never play strictly paragon or strictly renegade.

OY BIOWARE, ARE YOU READING THIS?

(yes I know they aren’t, I’m being a dick)

Well someone could make a thread about it, that could very easily be seen by Bioware, especially if a lot of people agreed with us and jumped on board.

But my main concern is, why are paragons ao often rewarded while renegades are not? Did you let the council die to concentrate on the greater threat? Well guess what, that was for nothing. Did you kill the rachni because you didn't think risking the galaxy on the off chance the queen was being truthful was a good idea? Well, so far, they're peaceful people who will help when the reapers come.

Now tell me, excluding Elnora, when has a renegade choice turned out better in the end than the paragon one?

Oh and regarding Elnora, can you call killing her a renegade action? The renegade interrupt comes after a known Elicpse mercenary pulls her gun on you. Defending yourself isn't renegade, it's the smart move when a merc pulls her gun on you.

Well this is all just speculation but part of that may be because its built around making the players happy and what sort of experience those playing paragon and those playing renegade are likely to want (presumably).those who are playing paragon are probably wanting a cleaner nicer story in which case being slappedf or a decision would not be practically satisfying. Whereas those who play renegade either just having fun or are wanting something with a bit more realism and grit to and want things to go to hell to some degree. Or maybe it's simply easier to write situations where everything turns out all right rather than biting you in the ass, who knows? It dose however annoy me that for the most part renegade options result in loss of content and shorter dialogue where paragons choices add content and have extend dialogue. They seem to put more effort into follow thru with paragon choices that they do renegade. Sparing Rana Thanoptis (virmire) seems to be a ‘bad’ paragon decision but thats all I can think of.

In regards to allot of the renegade interrupts, I suppose they are renegade because you are the one who fires the first shot rather than trying to talk a person down. Tho yes I agree shooting her was the smart move. Especially since if you had been paying attention you would know she was BSing you and is likely the one who killed the volus. Every eclipse mercenary murders someone to become a full member+ she is a very new member +volus being murdered by eclipse recently.

Modifié par Manic Sheep, 06 novembre 2010 - 07:37 .