183 réponses à ce sujet

[In Exile]

I tend to be a very strong backer of DA2. Most of the features introduced or altered from DA:O I see as significant positives (e.g. VO, the new art style).

One major concern of mine, and one thing we have not received very much information on is how the PC version plays and more importantly handles.

By that, I mean how the UI has been altered from DA:O.

http://social.biowar...1/index/5178209

The Podcast thread has three screenshots from the current build of the inventory screen. This is something may be change prior to release; we have no idea as yet how close to completion Bioware is on this part of the game. Still, the change from the DA:O inventory is dramatic.

We have lost the open book we had with DA:O, but functionally the screen seems very similar. Since we can the quickbar below, it seems clear that this is the PC version (also, the quickbar is in, so that's pretty awesome).

As of right now, I believe the buttons in the bottom right corner represent the menu that used to be top and centre-justified in DA:O. I would wager the first two options are the character screen and the inventory, and then we likely have the journal, ability screen and menu.

So in some respects, the PC inventory and UI is safe. You can see that the console version was crucial to the development of this game, just in terms of how the abiity screen is set up to be easy to scroll around with a controller. It isn't something I mind, though it does show you where the design influence comes from.

What I don't understand though, is why all of the empty space? This menu could be cut down to the DA:O half-screen book and retain the same information. Why do we have such huge swaths of empty space?

Also, regarding the non-inventory screen (since we now lost the abiity to see part of the PC screen while opening the inventory) - have we lost the character portraints in the top-left? I'm sure the XP bar above the quicktab is gone because console players couldn't actually see how much XP they needed to level up, but have we retained our ability to poin and click on portraits to select characters? 

Overall, I think the UI will be okay for DA2. It will no doubt have a heavy console influence, but so far that seems to be just aesthetic, which is IMO good news.

EDIT:

Using newfound skills of adding images, I have added the UI images to the thread.

¸

Modifié par In Exile, 06 novembre 2010 - 08:56 .

[soteria]

What I don't understand though, is why all of the empty space? This menu could be cut down to the DA:O half-screen book and retain the same information. Why do we have such huge swaths of empty space?

Three possibilities come to mind. One is that companions have smaller ability trees that take up less space. Evidence to support that is Mr. Laidlaw's comment that Isabela is a dagger user--she doesn't have access to as many abilities as a PC. Another is that the screen resolution is just very high. A third is that the empty space to the right is sometimes used for information like stats about a specific ability.

I'm guessing the far right icons on the quickbar are health and stamina potions, maybe.

[Brockololly]

In Exile wrote...
What I don't understand though, is why all of the empty space? This menu could be cut down to the DA:O half-screen book and retain the same information. Why do we have such huge swaths of empty space?

The empty space is bugging me too. If I had to guess, if the console version is the design focus, it would make sense on the consoles to have everything bucnhed up towards the middle of the screen, as you have to accomodate 4:3 TVs and can't have stuff to close to the edges.

I don't know if thats the case for why the PC GUI looks so barren, but it could be.

In Exile wrote...
Also, regarding the non-inventory screen (since we now lost the abiity to see part of the PC screen while opening the inventory) - have we lost the character portraints in the top-left? I'm sure the XP bar above the quicktab is gone because console players couldn't actually see how much XP they needed to level up, but have we retained our ability to poin and click on portraits to select characters?

I believe Laidlaw said in some post a while ago, that the square portraits will be in the bottom left, just like you may have seen in some of those videos- so they'll be on the bottom left with the health bars and mana bars. I can't say I care for that, as it seems to block a good chunk of the action on the bottom of the screen.

As for the GUI in general, its not bad, but it just looks very sort of sparse, bland and ...dare I say, Spartan? I don't want something all overly com;icated, but those screens just look quite basic and uninspired I guess- and all that empty space doesn't help.

Modifié par Brockololly, 06 novembre 2010 - 04:30 .

[Inzhuna]

I was thinking about the empty space, too. Maybe it's just incomplete?

[Mike Laidlaw]

soteria wrote...

What I don't understand though, is why all of the empty space? This menu could be cut down to the DA:O half-screen book and retain the same information. Why do we have such huge swaths of empty space?

Three possibilities come to mind. One is that companions have smaller ability trees that take up less space. Evidence to support that is Mr. Laidlaw's comment that Isabela is a dagger user--she doesn't have access to as many abilities as a PC. Another is that the screen resolution is just very high. A third is that the empty space to the right is sometimes used for information like stats about a specific ability.

Correct about the space. Swashbuckler isn't a full talent (more of a flavor for the whole tree), so it has no stamina cost, damage calculations, etc. Talents are significantly more dense, so the space is needed. We are, in fact, doing a much better job of giving hard stats in the talent descriptions than we did in Origins.

I'm guessing the far right icons on the quickbar are health and stamina potions, maybe.

Yup. Nice and fast access to them.

[Ziggeh]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

We are, in fact, doing a much better job of giving hard stats in the talent descriptions than we did in Origins.

Ooh, that's good to hear. I got used to it eventually, but I do remember that to begin with I was having quite a problem with some of the descriptions saying things that amounted to "does some damage". Uninformed decisions make god baby cry.

[deuce985]

It would be nice to see Bioware show the PC version off soon. I bought DA:O on PC and 360. I plan to buy it on PC again since the experience is so much better/fluid on PC in DA:O. I know we're a small audience these days but you gotta appreciate Bioware taking time to build a game for two audiences. I don't think any dev does that anymore. Usually everything is built for console, then just ported to PC without using any of its strengths.

That is good to hear Mike. Does that include items with cryptic descriptions like "weaken darkspawn" or "flaming"? That is something I thought could be improved in DA:O, you had to figure the stasticial differences on items yourself. Including some abilities...

Modifié par deuce985, 06 novembre 2010 - 04:52 .

[soteria]

Correct about the space. Swashbuckler isn't a full talent (more of a flavor for the whole tree), so it has no stamina cost, damage calculations, etc. Talents are significantly more dense, so the space is needed. We are, in fact, doing a much better job of giving hard stats in the talent descriptions than we did in Origins.

Thanks for the quick confirmation. Also, woohoo! The vague talent descriptions were a sore point, as you well know.

[In Exile]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...
Correct about the space. Swashbuckler isn't a full talent (more of a flavor for the whole tree), so it has no stamina cost, damage calculations, etc. Talents are significantly more dense, so the space is needed. We are, in fact, doing a much better job of giving hard stats in the talent descriptions than we did in Origins.

So with DA2, we can read the ability description this time around to calculate the different effects/damages this time around without having to resort to tooltips?

Yup. Nice and fast access to them.

I assume lyrium replaces stamina for mages? Are they fixed on the quicktab now? I wouldn't mind, since that was where I kept my potions in all my playthroughs.

Brockololly wrote...
The
empty space is bugging me too. If I had to guess, if the console
version is the design focus, it would make sense on the consoles to have
everything bucnhed up towards the middle of the screen, as you have to
accomodate 4:3 TVs and can't have stuff to close to the edges.

I don't
know if thats the case for why the PC GUI looks so barren, but it could
be.

One thing the DA:O UI did was try to preserve the feeling of the setting, by which I mean that it kept everything looking as if you were dealing with the technology level of the setting (i.e. everything was a tabbed book). I think part of the change, visually, is that now the menu is a proper menu.

One thing that occured to me was that the UI is not empty; it just feels empty because we are not seeing it on a proper screen right now.

If I look at the regular inventory screen with the imagine as a background on my laptop, for example, it's as busy as the Origins UI - it just lacks the cut of borders for the book, so it feels bigger.

What is a concern is just how many abilities characters have. I think that NPCs are likely much more restricted than Hawke, and only gain a new talent tree if you push the friend/rival metre enough. That could be an interesting implementation, but we have to see it in action to judge.

To be honest, I like the atmosphere of the inventory, and it feels like a different game than Origins which to me is important. I know you are a big fan of visual continuity, but for me, it makes a difference knowing the game I'm currently playing has a lot of features distinct from its predecessor, so that I feel like I'm playing a new game and not just a mod or expansion.

As for the GUI in general, its not bad, but it just looks very sort
of sparse, bland and ...dare I say, Spartan? I don't want something all
overly com;icated, but those screens just look quite basic and
uninspired I guess- and all that empty space doesn't help.

I will be honest. With the space, I wish the screen was cropped and we could see part of the normal GUI like in DA:O. I think that feature was just outright superior, and I dislike a menu that just splashes MENU all over my screen. It hurts immersion. It's pretty clear (to me, at least) the swap was needed to accomodate the console GUI, but that's a shame.

The important thing to take away is that console implementation does not seem to affect the more fundamental PC oriented aspects of the GUI, even if you can see that the game is being designed with the console UI in mind first.

[Andaril78]

Mike, perhaps I stole the OP:s thread now, but must ask. The stars on the left side of each equipment. For exeample, the pic on Isabela´s inventory shows an ring with two stars on the far right side of the ring- What is that? An quality marker?

I really hopes it´s so, that if I click on the ring for exeample, the stats shows up?

Or do you´ve taken away the numbers?

Hopas you understand what I means

[Brockololly]

In Exile wrote...
One thing the DA:O UI did was try to preserve the feeling of the setting, by which I mean that it kept everything looking as if you were dealing with the technology level of the setting (i.e. everything was a tabbed book). I think part of the change, visually, is that now the menu is a proper menu.

Yeah- although I do recall, maybe it was in some of the early stuff, that they wanted the GUI and menus to retain the sort of tapestry look and feel they've got going in the 2D cutscenes.

I like it in Origins where the inventory and everything looked like a journal sort of- its little things like that which add a lot to a game. Having just a straight up menu like we're seeing is functional I suppose, but compared to Origins, just feels uninspired and droll- kind of like ME2's "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!" screens.

In Exile wrote...
To be honest, I like the atmosphere of the inventory, and it feels like a different game than Origins which to me is important. I know you are a big fan of visual continuity, but for me, it makes a difference knowing the game I'm currently playing has a lot of features distinct from its predecessor, so that I feel like I'm playing a new game and not just a mod or expansion.

I don't mind if they change up the presentation of the inventory and so forth- its just that these screens look very generic and bland. Functional, I suppose, but I've come to expect a bit more than simply "functional" when it comes to BioWare games. It just lacks any personality and gives off a very cold, sterile feel.

In Exile wrote...
I will be honest. With the space, I wish the screen was cropped and we could see part of the normal GUI like in DA:O. I think that feature was just outright superior, and I dislike a menu that just splashes MENU all over my screen. It hurts immersion. It's pretty clear (to me, at least) the swap was needed to accomodate the console GUI, but that's a shame.

Completely agree.

I'm hoping this is still a work in progress or that they haven't polished it up yet, as it definitely looks like a console menu cropped onto a higher resolution PC monitor.

Modifié par Brockololly, 06 novembre 2010 - 06:20 .

[In Exile]

Brockololly wrote...
Yeah- although I do recall, maybe it was in some of the early stuff, that they wanted the GUI and menus to retain the sort of tapestry look and feel they've got going in the 2D cutscenes.

I recall reading they wanted a uniform look for all the menus, that still was true to the setting. Smooth and futuristic is not that. Well, that's just a pill to swallow in the end.

I like it in Origins where the inventory and everything looked like a journal sort of- its little things like that which add a lot to a game. Having just a straight up menu like we're seeing is functional I suppose, but compared to Origins, just feels uninspired and droll- kind of like ME2's "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!" screens.

I don't know what the hell the logic of the ME2 screen was. I guess they wanted to give some kind of impression of a debriefing with the Illusive Man? Whatever it was, it was botched and silly.

The PC UI right now seems to be completely divorced from the more immersive approach of Origins, but it's a long way from jumping the shark like the Mission Accomplished screen. I mean, I thought ME2 was a dramatic improvement over ME, but I laughed for 5 minutes straight when I got that screen.

I don't mind if they change up the presentation of the inventory and so forth- its just that these screens look very generic and bland. Functional, I suppose, but I've come to expect a bit more than simply "functional" when it comes to BioWare games. It just lacks any personality and gives off a very cold, sterile feel.

I think it has personality; it just has the wrong kind of personality. I don't think it would be out of place in a game like Alpha Protocol, where it looks like you're using a GUI on a PDA or something. The problem is that we're aiming for medieval fantasy here, and we have a very futuristic looking interface.

I will be honest - I like a lot of the graphical elements. I think the icons are an improvement over DA:O. I think the armour slots look better. I think the character models look better. But the background and the full screen UI, that just seems to miss something and fails to tie in everything.

I'm hoping this is still a work in progress or that they haven't polished it up yet, as it definitely looks like a console menu cropped onto a higher resolution PC monitor.

I wouldn't be optimistic about that. We will get a modified console interface, no more and no less.

[Mike Laidlaw]

Andaril78 wrote...

Mike, perhaps I stole the OP:s thread now, but must ask. The stars on the left side of each equipment. For exeample, the pic on Isabela´s inventory shows an ring with two stars on the far right side of the ring- What is that? An quality marker?
I really hopes it´s so, that if I click on the ring for exeample, the stats shows up?
Or do you´ve taken away the numbers?
Hopas you understand what I means

Understand? Sure do.

The stars offer an at-a-glace indicator of the weapon, armor or item's usefulness compared to your current level. An item that used to be five stars at level one will slowly drop off to none when you're in your teens. The goal there is to make it easy to tell what's above and below the curve for your current character.

And, of course, you can either hover to get a tooltip, or use X (on consoles) to inspect the item in question to get a detailed breakdown of what properties the item has, damage it does, or whatever.

This is pretty consistent with the rest of the game. I'm a big fan of making at-a-glance information clear and easily digestible, while having another layer underneath that lets you dig deeper and get neck deep in the statistics. You'll see this approach in character creation, inventory, crafting and so on.

[slimgrin]

I like your philosophy on this Mike. Sounds like a nice quick way to get info about weapons and items.

[Mike Laidlaw]

In Exile wrote...
I wouldn't be optimistic about that. We will get a modified console interface, no more and no less.

And the console crowd will get a modified PC interface. Everyone wins!

[Dave of Canada]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

In Exile wrote...
I wouldn't be optimistic about that. We will get a modified console interface, no more and no less.

And the console crowd will get a modified PC interface. Everyone wins!

*celebrates*

[Mike Laidlaw]

slimgrin wrote...

I like your philosophy on this Mike. Sounds like a nice quick way to get info about weapons and items.

Ideally, it lets you know what to sell quickly, and limits the "digging deep" for stats to stuff that's in the same star range. Playing with it here, the part I like most is that when I see a five star item, it's rather like unwrapping a gift, becuase there's always something fun inside.

And we could all use more gifts!

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...
The stars offer an at-a-glace indicator of the weapon, armor or item's usefulness compared to your current level. An item that used to be five stars at level one will slowly drop off to none when you're in your teens. The goal there is to make it easy to tell what's above and below the curve for your current character.

;__; So... so convenient and simple... they should have sent a poet.

Also, the interface looks fantastic.

Modifié par Pseudocognition, 06 novembre 2010 - 06:50 .

[upsettingshorts]

It kind of reminds me of how in Football Manager your assistant will evaluate the particular ability and/or potential of players with at-a-glance "star ratings" relative to your team's reputation and expectations.  A two star at Arsenal would be a five star for the New York Red Bulls, etc.  You can still click on 'em and do a more thorough investigation of their attributes and skills, even disagree with your assistant's evaluation of their potential usefulness, but it does give you a quick impression if you're looking for one.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 06 novembre 2010 - 06:56 .

[tmp7704]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

The stars offer an at-a-glace indicator of the weapon, armor or item's usefulness compared to your current level. An item that used to be five stars at level one will slowly drop off to none when you're in your teens. The goal there is to make it easy to tell what's above and below the curve for your current character.

So it's something like say, if you are a level 1 character and designers expect character at this level to wear tier 1 armour, then armour of tier 2 would have a star, tier 3 -- two stars and so on, or something similar? And if character levels up to point where tier 2 becomes "expected" item to wear, then tier 3 would show just one star instead of two etc? If so that sounds useful, in DAO you'd have to remember the progress of materials to get the same info or delve into tooltips.

Modifié par tmp7704, 06 novembre 2010 - 06:53 .

[Brockololly]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

In Exile wrote...
I wouldn't be optimistic about that. We will get a modified console interface, no more and no less.

And the console crowd will get a modified PC interface. Everyone wins!

Hrmppphh....why can't consoles get a dedicated console interface and PC's get  a dedicated PC interface?<_<

Seriously though, those screens are from the PC correct? On the inventory screen, why is everything so scrunched up in the middle of the screen?



It just seems very empty, especially around the edges?

Modifié par Brockololly, 06 novembre 2010 - 06:58 .

[Maria Caliban]

Brockololly wrote...

Hrmppphh....why can't consoles get a dedicated console interface and PC's get  a dedicated PC interface?<_<

Because BioWare hates you and wants all aspects of the game to be horrible for as many users as possible.

Or, Mike was being facetious and that's exactly what we're getting.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 06 novembre 2010 - 07:00 .

[upsettingshorts]

Brockololly wrote...
It just seems very empty, especially around the edges?

I'm guessing so that it works without substantial modification on 4:3 and 16:9 or 16:10 displays.

Maria Caliban wrote...

Because BioWare hates you and wants all aspects of the game to be horrible for as many users as possible.

I thought their company motto was Alienate & Annoy.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 06 novembre 2010 - 07:02 .

[slimgrin]

It seems more legible to me Brock, because the info is spread out and not confined to the tiny journal we had in DA. Although as a design and art nerd I really loved the UI of DA, I think this will work better.

[In Exile]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...
This is pretty consistent with the rest of the game. I'm a big fan of making at-a-glance information clear and easily digestible, while having another layer underneath that lets you dig deeper and get neck deep in the statistics. You'll see this approach in character creation, inventory, crafting and so on.

Yes, this sounds like an excellent feature. I'm a big fan of information at a glance as well.

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

And the console
crowd will get a modified PC interface. Everyone wins!

Well, certainly. The issue is that the mouse allows for a bit more fidelity than the controller, so it's always (at least IMO) easier to make something that works on a console and then tweak it to get the most out of point & click on the PC. That's what I meant by modified console UI. I'm not trying to suggest that one is better or worse than the other, just that I think from a design standpoint it makes sense to go console => PC versus the reverse.

Brockololly wrote...
Hrmppphh....why can't consoles get a
dedicated console interface and PC's get  a dedicated PC interface?[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/angry.png[/smilie]

Resources, I'm sure. Building and testing a second UI is a lot of work. I don't mind that the graphical orientation favours the console and is adapted for the PC - I play console games enough to know what a pain-in-the-ass certain UIs can be.

Seriously though, those screens are from the
PC correct? On the inventory screen, why is everything so scrunched up
in the middle of the screen?



It just seems very empty, especially around the edges?

I think it's an aesthetic choice. I don't see any reason why it would need to be this way for a console.

ETA:

Also, how do you show images? I really don't know what command to run.

Modifié par In Exile, 06 novembre 2010 - 07:03 .