168 réponses à ce sujet

[Maria Caliban]

Schuback wrote...

What makes you think she is bad?

I was looking at an enlarged version of her face in another thread and realized I found her attractive. I studied it for a moment to pick out why and she looked evil. A few seconds later, I recalled Malificent from Sleeping Beauty.

Mistress9Nine wrote...

Nah, she's not a lesbian. Evil chicks are always lesbian. Or is it the other way around and all lesbians are evil? I can't remember.

Wrong! All lesbians are *insane.* All bisexuals are *evil.*

[Russalka]

There is a difference between looking sinister and being evil.

[deuce985]

Russalka wrote...

deuce985 wrote...
Yup, exploiting power through religion and preying on the weak that rely
on it. Hunting apostates down just because they don't follow "their"
way of magic where they can monitor it.

All might be extreme but the majority exploit weak spots on people through religion to gain power as a
military state. I'm sure they have some Templars who think they're
doing it for the better good.

Subjective.

I do not get this thread at all.
No one has any proof to add to their outlandish claims.

Very subjective.

I just don't like how the Chantry needs a military state to do their bidding and spread their influence. They're basically like a centralized government that controls peoples life without them realizing it. Becuase they exploit the soft issue in everyone's life, religion. Yet with all that power, comes great responbility and plenty of people within who will try to corrupt it.

I'd like to think the DA writers based things on similar issues in our past. Like the great war Christians caused mass genocide in the Crusades "in the name of god".

Cassandra may not be the pure evil spoken of but it is almost surely she is a rival. I'm guessing at some point you will have to see her as either enemy or friend. Maybe a enemy of my enemy kind of thing? She is a Templar and you/sister are on the run as a apostate...

Modifié par deuce985, 06 novembre 2010 - 05:56 .

[Russalka]

@Deuce895
So the institution is morally questionable, from OUR viewpoint, people who are not from Thedas. Does that make every templar evil to the core?

Modifié par Russalka, 06 novembre 2010 - 05:57 .

[g-vapen]

Maria Caliban wrote...

You could ally with Loghain in the end. He still allowed the elves to be enslaved, house Cousland to be destroyed, murdered his king and the son of his (once) best friend and the woman he loved, and let the darkspawn rampage through Thedas.

Ally != Good person

I don't specifically recall Loghain having a hand in the Cousland massacre. I thought that was all Arl Howe and Loghain just didn't bother to care on things that has already been done.

[deuce985]

Russalka wrote...

@Deuce895
So the institution is morally questionable, from OUR viewpoint, people who are not from Thedas. Does that make every templar evil to the core?

No and I worded it different in my second post. I said all are evil is probably a little extreme but I think the majority of Templars exploit their power. Some surely think they're doing it for the better good. However, I read a part in the books where they just decided to immediately kill a apostate without giving them any chance. They attacked immediately and they weren't even threatened. That is wrong. It is like they're forcing their influence on people.

Modifié par deuce985, 06 novembre 2010 - 05:59 .

[Maria Caliban]

yo broooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo wrote...

i wouldnt call him a evil person either, he let his bitterness get the better of him.

I would call him evil, but if you prefer: Loghian and Cassandra are morally dubious.

ErichHartmann wrote...

The Chantry is not evil so Cassandra is good in my eyes.

That makes no sense. The Church of Latter-day Saints isn't evil and Ted Bundy was a Mormon. Is Bundy good in your eyes despite murdering dozens of women?

Religious affiliation doesn't determine if someone is good or bad in Thedas.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 06 novembre 2010 - 06:02 .

[deuce985]

g-vapen wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

You could ally with Loghain in the end. He still allowed the elves to be enslaved, house Cousland to be destroyed, murdered his king and the son of his (once) best friend and the woman he loved, and let the darkspawn rampage through Thedas.

Ally != Good person

I don't specifically recall Loghain having a hand in the Cousland massacre. I thought that was all Arl Howe and Loghain just didn't bother to care on things that has already been done.

I don't think they had any proof in the game Loghain knew about it. It was all Arl Howe and Loghain later commisioned him in the game after Ostagar.

[Dave of Canada]

deuce985 wrote...

No and I worded it different in my second post. I said all are evil is probably a little extreme but I think the majority of Templars exploit their power. Some surely think they're doing it for the better good. However, I read a part in the books where they just decided to immediately kill a apostate without giving them any chance. They attacked immediately and they weren't even threatened. That is wrong. It is like they're forcing their influence on people.

And you'd rather allow the extremely powerful spell caster a moment to cast? A Templar does his / her duty for the protection of everybody, including themselves. An Apostate is extremely dangerous.

[errant_knight]

g-vapen wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

You could ally with Loghain in the end. He still allowed the elves to be enslaved, house Cousland to be destroyed, murdered his king and the son of his (once) best friend and the woman he loved, and let the darkspawn rampage through Thedas.

Ally != Good person

I don't specifically recall Loghain having a hand in the Cousland massacre. I thought that was all Arl Howe and Loghain just didn't bother to care on things that has already been done.

Howe was his puppet. What you think depends on how much you think he knew, and how much responsibility he bore for allowing Howe a free hand to kill and torture. When he did find out, he didn't do anything about it, in any case. By the way, LOVE your icon!

[blothulfur]

Always a little wary of people who insist they are doing things for the greater good, then again i'm not really opposed to the chantry just the general idea of organised religion. Peoples beliefs should be their own business.

[Maria Caliban]

maxernst wrote...

She certainly looks evil to me but that's just a subjective reaction.

It's a subjective reaction based on how BioWare has choosen to portrayed the character.

Do you know what people said the moment they *heard* Loghian? "He's going to betray the king!" Why? Because of the way Simon Templeton sounded.

[deuce985]

Dave of Canada wrote...

deuce985 wrote...

No and I worded it different in my second post. I said all are evil is probably a little extreme but I think the majority of Templars exploit their power. Some surely think they're doing it for the better good. However, I read a part in the books where they just decided to immediately kill a apostate without giving them any chance. They attacked immediately and they weren't even threatened. That is wrong. It is like they're forcing their influence on people.

And you'd rather allow the extremely powerful spell caster a moment to cast? A Templar does his / her duty for the protection of everybody, including themselves. An Apostate is extremely dangerous.

And all apostate abuse their power? No. Perhaps they would rather be free of their shackles within the Circle of Magi and still use their gifts for the better good. In some ways, perhaps even moreso than they could in the Circle of Magi. So because a apostate is powerful it gives a Templar the immediate right to kill them just because they say so? Yet, Mages are so important to Thedas and every Mage, even monitored ones are a similar threat?

Like I said, just seems to me like the Chantry wants to control everything in the name of good and religion to spread their influence.

A population is much easier to handle when everyone sees your viewpoint correct? It may seem like a dicatorship but it works.

[Maria Caliban]

Russalka wrote...

...you are already outlining a sexual orientation and an evil personality.

Um, I haven't said anything about her sexual orientation. I said I thought she was attractive and wondered why.

[Dave of Canada]

deuce985 wrote...

And all apostate abuse their power? No. Perhaps they would rather be free of their shackles within the Circle of Magi and still use their gifts for the better good. In some ways, perhaps even moreso than they could in the Circle of Magi. So because a apostate is powerful it gives a Templar the immediate right to kill them just because they say so? Yet, Mages are so important to Thedas and every Mage, even monitored ones are a similar threat?

I'm sorry but I don't see how you can firmly support Templars going "oh hey dude sup" to every apostate. You're assuming every apostate wants to "use their gifts for the better good". A lone mage can destroy a village, a blood mage can manipulate higher powers and if possessed can destroy almost everything quite easily.

Like I said, just seems to me like the Chantry wants to control everything in the name of good and religion to spread their influence.

While I don't like the Chantry as much as the next guy, the Circle are mostly independent. They are still under control of the Chantry, yes, but Irving has enough say that it isn't like the Chantry says "SIT, BOY!".

A population is much easier to handle when everyone sees your viewpoint correct? It may seem like a dicatorship but it works.

The masses are correct with their fears when a lone CHILD mage was fully capable of destroying Redcliffe. If there wasn't a Circle Tower, the chances of mages being killed when discovered would be extremely high.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 06 novembre 2010 - 06:14 .

[Herr Uhl]

With Cassandra, I'm getting the impression of strict rather than evil. She looks like an executive for something. Well, she kind of has that Gestapo feel about her.

Maria Caliban wrote...

Russalka wrote...

...you are already outlining a sexual orientation and an evil personality. 

Um, I haven't said anything about her sexual orientation. I said I thought she was attractive and wondered why.

Hush, the only women women can find attractive are lesbians or bi themselves.

[Rattleface]

deuce985 wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

deuce985 wrote...

No and I worded it different in my second post. I said all are evil is probably a little extreme but I think the majority of Templars exploit their power. Some surely think they're doing it for the better good. However, I read a part in the books where they just decided to immediately kill a apostate without giving them any chance. They attacked immediately and they weren't even threatened. That is wrong. It is like they're forcing their influence on people.

And you'd rather allow the extremely powerful spell caster a moment to cast? A Templar does his / her duty for the protection of everybody, including themselves. An Apostate is extremely dangerous.

And all apostate abuse their power? No. Perhaps they would rather be free of their shackles within the Circle of Magi and still use their gifts for the better good. In some ways, perhaps even moreso than they could in the Circle of Magi. So because a apostate is powerful it gives a Templar the immediate right to kill them just because they say so? Yet, Mages are so important to Thedas and every Mage, even monitored ones are a similar threat?

Like I said, just seems to me like the Chantry wants to control everything in the name of good and religion to spread their influence.

A population is much easier to handle when everyone sees your viewpoint correct? It may seem like a dicatorship but it works.

Do you think people WANT an apostate mage around?  I think you forget that they're just as feared/hated by the common man than by the Chantry.

Just look at all the apostate mages in Origins that thought they were doing things for "the greater good" by escaping the Circle.
They **** everything up.  No wonder Templars don't show them much mercy.

[Aermas]

She doesn't look "evil" she looks "intense" looking evil includes crazy eyes or a haughty demenor

[Rattleface]

The black hair, black lipstick.... blackity blackblackness of her outfit gives her an evil air.

I honestly don't see why she even dresses like that. You'd think the Chantry would require brighter colors or something.

[Herr Uhl]

Rattleface wrote...

The black hair, black lipstick.... blackity blackblackness of her outfit gives her an evil air.
I honestly don't see why she even dresses like that. You'd think the Chantry would require brighter colors or something.

She is what you can call an inquisitor. The one that watches the templars, looking intimidating is part of the job.

[blothulfur]

It's the old assuming the masses of Thedas will want what an educated twenty first century person will want argument, we might not like these institutions but to the average peasant they speak the word of the maker.

[Dave of Canada]

Herr Uhl wrote...

She is what you can call an inquisitor. The one that watches the templars, looking intimidating is part of the job.

But who watches the watchmen?

[upsettingshorts]

Dave of Canada wrote...
But who watches the watchmen?

The Maker.

[deuce985]

Rattleface wrote...

deuce985 wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

deuce985 wrote...

No and I worded it different in my second post. I said all are evil is probably a little extreme but I think the majority of Templars exploit their power. Some surely think they're doing it for the better good. However, I read a part in the books where they just decided to immediately kill a apostate without giving them any chance. They attacked immediately and they weren't even threatened. That is wrong. It is like they're forcing their influence on people.

And you'd rather allow the extremely powerful spell caster a moment to cast? A Templar does his / her duty for the protection of everybody, including themselves. An Apostate is extremely dangerous.

And all apostate abuse their power? No. Perhaps they would rather be free of their shackles within the Circle of Magi and still use their gifts for the better good. In some ways, perhaps even moreso than they could in the Circle of Magi. So because a apostate is powerful it gives a Templar the immediate right to kill them just because they say so? Yet, Mages are so important to Thedas and every Mage, even monitored ones are a similar threat?

Like I said, just seems to me like the Chantry wants to control everything in the name of good and religion to spread their influence.

A population is much easier to handle when everyone sees your viewpoint correct? It may seem like a dicatorship but it works.

Do you think people WANT an apostate mage around?  I think you forget that they're just as feared/hated by the common man than by the Chantry.

Just look at all the apostate mages in Origins that thought they were doing things for "the greater good" by escaping the Circle.
They **** everything up.  No wonder Templars don't show them much mercy.

And that is what I like about DA:O writing, they relate it so much to the real world.

So, let us use a similar example in the real world. In the Crusades, Christians hates Pagans. In fact, they killed millions of them. What is now Poland ask help from what is now Germany in helping with their "Pagan" problem since they were a fellow Catholic state. What did the Holy Roman Empire do? They went into Poland and killed everyone, including Christians. Mass genocide because they considered them tainted. All because their society saw a Pagans as "demonic" and "satanic" all because they had different beliefs and practiced differently. The irony of this is, much as Christianity in those times hated Paganism, Christianity itself adopted Pagan practices. So where is Paganism now? Now the Chantry has similar dominance over Thedas as being the dominant religion.

So because society is so fearful of apostates, they immediately stereotype them all as evil? Because apparently all abuse their power...right. So I guess that gives the Templars the right to kill them whenever they see fit. But nowhere do they look at the gains at keeping them alive. Sounds like society to me.

Again, the Chantry is a military/centralized government powerhouse because they can spread influence through religion. So nobody will question their beliefs since everyone bases their life around religion. Sounds like a perfect way to spread influence to me. In our world, it has been done many times before and people blindly follow it through bloodshed...

Modifié par deuce985, 06 novembre 2010 - 06:27 .